Been reading up on old S and W stuff and discovered that my grandfather's M&P is actually a five inch 38/200 British Service Revolver or a model K-200. Made for the Brits to shoot the 200 grain 38 S&W cartridge. I always thought it to be a Victory model but they were mostly 4 inch guns with a few 2.5 inch guns. I guess that is why it has a five inch barrel and I could not find any info on the Victory model having a five inch barrel. I am sure this gun has bee refinished because the trademark is almost gone. This gun has not been re ham dred so it still has some neat factor to it although it has been refinished. I will have to get some pictures up for it. Serial number is V27411 which should put it right around 1942 or 1943. Anyone else have one?

I have one. Look closely at the side plate for any other proof marks. I have a C with an arrow inside, indicating Canada. Didn't notice it for a long time, and was surprised to find to it. I wish guns like these could tell their stories.

Read the book! The Standard catalog says that the 38/200 BSR are mixed in the same serial number range as the Victory models. Or I guess we could call it a pre war pre model 11. What ever that is. I believe it. To be different to the Victory in barrel length and caliber. I am sure they were used to assist with the victory but are different than what most consider a true Victory model.

Sometimes you can find the 38-200 ammuntion on line. But you can also shoot 38 S&W out of it.

You can still order the Wondersight, which just screws in to the top sideplate screw, and then adjust that to .38 S&W POI. .38 S&W hits way low out of my 5" Victory, and the only place I found that makes .38/200 is Old Western Scrounger which is always backordered.

If it has the V prefix I believe most folks call it a Victory Model which came in two flavors: a 4" 38 Special for the US and a 5" 38 S&W for Great Britain. I have heard rumors of some 2" VMs (never a 2.5") but I have never seen one or met anyone who has seen one. Should have a greyish finish and if it's blued and looks polished then it probably is refinished.

The V started in early 1942 and one of mine is V77000 shipped in September of that year.

Does your look like this (this is original finish but the original smooth stocks were replaced with these later commercial units for comfort)?

I may be wrong, but I've always thought that Victory Models were made in 4 inch barrel length and .38 special for US and 5 inch barrel and .38-200 for the UK.

Mine does look like that but I guess if we really get down to it, the five inch barrel and caliber difference makes it a none Victory model and does make it a British Service Revolver. "Smith and Wesson" oh so much to remember and learn and read and re-read!!

I have a pre-V revolver, but it is not collectible since it had a Colt Detective Special barrel on it when I got it.......I screwed a 5" .38 S&W barrel on it in my garage. Nice shooter, no value, no problem for me!

The .38/200 Victories are still reasonably priced, it's the .38 Special models that are going up.

GyMac- Isn't that exactly what I said in Post #6?

So you guys are saying that a five inch 38 S&W is the same gun as a four inch 38 special? I know they look similar and are built on the same size frame but that is like saying that a 25-2 six inch is the same gun as a 25-5 four inch.

Slowly now...

One has a 4" barrel in 38 Special for the US.

One has a 5" barrel in 38 S&W for Great Britain.

They are all serial numbered together.

If the serial has a V prefix they are called Victory Models.

They are slightly different (see above) but are called the same name.

There's also a few 6" in both .38 Special and 38/200. I saw one at a local gun shop, a 6" 38/200 but the guy wanted like $700 for it, and it wasn't $700 cool.......also have seen 6" .38 Specials on GunBroker. Apparently these were early Victories and S&W was just using barrels up.

The Brits were buying any pistol they could find so you do see 6" guns and guns in 38 Special with Brit markings. But the vast majority are as described above.

I don't know why this is hard for some to discover or remember. Most S&W and military handgun reference books have the data. I and others have posted about it repeatedly right here, too.

From about spring of 1940 until April, 1942, four, five, and six-inch barrels were supplied on .38-200 guns. Initial finish was commercial blue. Later, it became a duller brush blue, and after the 1942 date, smooth wooden stocks replaced the checkered ones with a silver medallion.

At that time, the finish changed to a Parkerized look called Midnight Black, I think. And only five-inch barrels were furnished. I think the reason why they wanted five-inch guns is that contemporary Enfield and Webley revolvers also had five-inch barrels, and the Pattern 1937 holsters were made only for that barrel length.

The US guns were made mostly in four-inch form, with a modest number of two-inchers. These were all in .38 Special. All of the Victory Models should probably be the dull finished items with smooth stocks. That will distinguish them from the regular blued guns.

If the gun has that look, I consider it a Victory Model, regardless of whether the serial no. begins with a V. Others are more picky.

It is strange to see these guns selling for more than better-finished M&P's now, when they were once considered rough-finished surplus stuff. But their historical role is now better appreciated, and good ones are less common.

T-Star

I thought this is what mine was but it has none of the markings mentioned.

On the side plate just above the trigger it says:
VAM Dist Co LLC
Wooster OH

Any ideas

It is not hard to discover. I wrote what I discovered and now others are saying I am wrong in my thinking or understanding. The gun in question is NOT a Victory model. It looks like one but is definately a British Service Revolver. The difference being a five inch 38 S&W caliber and not a four inch 38 special caliber. The V serial number is the confusion. I say it again. Calling them the same is like calling a 29 the same as a 57 because the both have a "S" at the beginning of the serial number.

I thought this was a place to come and get real information, not judgement because other think you have no idea what you are talking about. Your opinion is just that. I am stating what I have read in a book or reference material. Now if you wrote a book, please give me the title and iwill read it also.

"The gun in question is NOT a Victory model. It looks like one but is definately a British Service Revolver."

You seem to be under the impression that only the American guns in 38 Special are properly called the Victory Model and the British guns go by another name. This is not the case and both are called VMs but you seem quite adamant in your desire to deny this. So be it. Call the gun anything you like.

Just saying what the books all say. I tend to think they are the expert source in most instances. Now, what was the title of the book you wrote?

Sure is a shame when we learn more than we understand.

My 'understanding' is ALL 'V' prefix guns were made for the US gov. & all are called "victory models". Some that were intended for use by the British commonwealth nations were chambered in 38-200 (the British service cartridge) & then sent to whom soever under the lend-lease act.
Ownership stayed US altho many were sent to England, Australia, Canada, ETC under the lend lease act. Just because they were loaned, that does not make them a special model. By labeling them "service revolver" preceded by the country they served only furthers their history.

My dog is a pug. Because he is obviously a pug, does that make me wrong if I call him a dog?

And NO, I did'nt write the book!

Jim

So I say I have a gun. Wha kind of gun a revolver? What kind of revolver? A Victory model. Oh a 38 special! Uh no....... See the issue in labeling them all the same.

The post above that tells it like it is is Saxon Pig's definitions. Writing a book has nothing to do with it. If I had a Smith & Wesson for every incorrect statement I've seen in a published article or a book, I would need another barn to house all those S&Ws! (And I've written a few items that later discoveries proved me incorrect!) . Let's use the information the factory used to say what is a Victory Model - towit: "We started the new wartime production of the Model 1905, 4th change, after serial number 1,000,000 as the "Victory" Model, starting with V 1 and applying the "V" preface to each serial number thereafter..." ( paraphrasing Carl Hellstrom ) . That's pretty clear to me - A Victory Model has a V prefix. What part of that is not understood? Whether is a .38 Special with a 2 inch or 4 inch barrel, or a .38/200 with a 5 inch barrel, it's a Victory Model if the serial number has a V prefix! Comprende Senor? Ed.

I was going to post a picture of the two that I have, but somebody would say "That's not a picture, that's a photograph". Then a big debate would start over the term picture. I guess I'll just move on.

Listen sonny, you want my resume?

I have a doctorate, a masters degree, two bachelors degrees and an associate degree. I have been teaching at the college level for 16 years.

I have been shooting and acquiring guns since 1967. Reloading since 1975. I have shot competitively and I have served as a match director. I am an NRA certified handgun instructor.

I am a third degree black belt in Shotokan karate. I started training in 1973 and have been teaching karate and self defense since 1991.

And by the way, I have written five books and 19 journal articles and I would advise you not to believe everything you read. Just because it's in a book doesn't necessarily mean it's correct. I frequently have to point out mistakes in the textbooks to my students.

You might want to be careful about questioning the credentials of people you don't even know. Getting attitude with folks trying to help you won't further your cause and you never know when you might be questioning the wrong person.

Several people have answered your question and you have rejected the information. Why don't you just run along, now?

PS: Here's one of my Victory Models, complete with British proof marks.

Funny how the 38/200 was being produced in 1940 a full two years before the Victory model with a "V" began.

With that 16 years of teaching have you ever considered any other opinion besides your or are you truly that arrogant? If it is that you are that arrogant, this would explain the education crisis you may have helped to create. You see I remember you attitude from a month ago concerning an engraved 29 that I asked about. It seems every time you most it is always your opinion or you get an attitude. So you run along old man and take you meds.

Every word you type deepens the pit you are in, kid. Your ignorance is excusable but your attitude is not.

Another Internet Commando who gets real brave when he is thousands of miles away. I'll pay for the bus ticket for you to come and say this **** to the old man's face, punk.

Oh, and the guns made 1939-1941 are called Lend Lease Models or sometimes "Pre-Victories." Just in case somebody worth educating happens to read this.

I am not sure why you think I am a young punk. As far as command goes, I don't even own a battle type rifle unless you include old Winchester in that category. The newest repeater I own is a 1973 Marlin. I just have a different opinion than you and it just burns you up. Get over it tough guy and accept there are other opions that are not yours.

Folks, I posted basically the same info, that the .38 S&Ws and .38 specials were all Victory models, when this thread started and got a smart answer that I OBVIOUSLY hadn't read the SCSW. So I deleted my post.

I now see that he has deleted almost all of his posts.

Some folks just can't learn.

__________________
John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

I don't have time to deal with this today, but I will get back to it.

__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett