...it has a 2" bbl. w/ a "bnp" proofmark and some other markings under the ejector rod that I've not seen on a S&W before, along with a front sight similar to a mod.36 but no serrations. The SN dates it to about 1930 or so. Is this barrel original?

It sounds like a cut down conversion that was popular after WW2. Is there a lug under the barrel for the end of the ejector rod? What is the caliber of the gun? Many were 38 SW but converted to 38 spl and cause problems with case swelling and spliting.

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John. SWCA #1586

The "BNP" proof mark is British so this may indicate that this is a Victory Model (or Pre-Victory) that was originally a military revolver that has been converted. Does the 2 inch barrel have the same serial number as the butt of the frame? Is the barrel marked "38 Special" or "38 S & W"?

I doubt that this was an original 2 inch barrel as most "BNP" marked 1905 4th change revolvers are converted military revolvers.

Hope this helps.

Steve

Thanks for replying so quickly, fellas.

Barrel has no caliber markings at all.
No lug for the ejctor rod. Only a milled flat. Quite a few small stampings hidden by the ejector rod when the action is closed, including ".3800 inch". No patent numbers or anything at all at the top of the barrel denoting Smith & Wesson.

What's the serial number? Is the a "V" prefix stamped on the butt? As said above, everything points to an altered WW2 edition of the Model 1905, 4th, sent to our England. Cutting the original 5 in. barrel to 2 in. , eliminates the markings & extractor rod lug, as would replacing the original barrel with a later model 2 in. barrel. Does the cylinder easily chamber .38 Special rounds and is the cylinder numbered to the gun? Ed.

Thanks again for looking into this, you guys.

Lemmesee...
-No "V" prefix. I know the "V" woulda been a dead giveaway.
-Checked the cylinder's chambering with a .38 spl. snap cap. Plenty of clearance.
-6-digit SN beginning in 42.

Come to think of it, the barrel must be a bit longer than 2" because the muzzle is about 1/2" forward of the ejector rod. Like I posted previously, there is no lug for the ejector rod, although I'm not sure if the Model of 1905 had one as standard. Also, the blue and patina on the frame and cylinder match perfectly, about 60% condition. The muzzle has some holster wear and the barrel's blueing is a bit darker than the rest and about 70% or so condition.

Wouldn't an original barrel have had a half-moon front sight?

-edited to add- No SN on the barrel at all. I also expected to find some stamping on top of the barrel but this is the first snubbie I've ever seen in the flesh of this age so factoring in the possible lack of room for stamping on top of such a short barrel, I couldn't be sure.

A serial number in the 420000 range points to the early 1920s. Does this gun have the "MADE IN U.S.A." stamp on the frame?

Sounds to me more and more like a 1905 produced in .38 Special that went to England for some reason and after a barrel chop (or change) was certified for resale in the civilian market. Does the serial number also appear on the rear surface of the cylinder and underside of the ejector star?

Does the ejector rod have a knob at the end, or simply a knurled area the same diameter as the rest of the rod?

At the time this gun seems to have been produced, I don't think S&W had yet made a single revolver in the British-preferred .38/200 caliber.

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David Wilson

Yup, "MADE IN USA" stamped on the frame and also yup, ejector rod does have a knob on the end. SN's are everywhere that you specified.

The whole thing about being a possible re-barrel but with Brit proofmarks is what got me curious, initially. Seems like this piece might have a bit of a story, maybe? Could a gunsmith have had a leftover .38-200 barrel from a previous conversion job and fitted it to this gun?

Quite a few possibilities, I'm guessin'. I dunno, front sight still has me scratchin' my head. Seems like it oughtta be a half-moon but what do I know? This is why I come to the experts on the Forum, for which I'm very grateful for your assistance.

The gun in question was bought in last night at the gunshop where I work part-time. I think they might've taken a hit on it. They bought it for around $500 and plan on asking around $850. Possible "oops".

Well, I broke down and dug out my SCSW 3rd ed. and nosed around.

Definately a re-barrel. Front sight IS supposed to be a half-moon and the normal barrel markings for that period should be present, but aren't in this case.

BUT HERE'S THE PAINFUL PART...

...this gun has a square butt frame and according to the SCSW, it's SCARCE! Double the value for a square butt and DOUBLE OR TRIPLE the value for a square butt 2"! If only she were as nature intended. As it is, somebody back in the dusty pages of this gun's history took a scarce revolver and put a foreign, non S&W barrel on it, wrecking a good bit of its value.

Ah well...back when it was done, it was prob'ly just somebody's "ol' gun"...OR...the cynic in me says another possibility is that some unscrupulous and relatively recent individual knew about the value of the 2" square butt, found an off-brand 2" barrel, did a li'l home gunsmithin', and went out in search of a pigeon. We'll never know.

I can't give enough thanks for everybody's interest and assistance.
I wonder what she's worth in her present state.

ETA- The diamond grips are super clean. Crisp checkering for its age and no splits, warps, dings, or contractions. Medallions are shiny and relatively oxide-free.

Don't be misled by SCSW on the two-inch barrel guns, because that is almost certainly not an original two-inch barrel. It is very likely cut down from five inches. There were some ramp style front sights put on chopped barrels by British companies like Parker-Hale. Do you see any names or initials on the front sight? They might be very lightly impressed.

Without photos, I'm not comfortable offering a no-qualifications opinion. But I'd guess you are correct that the shop took a bad hit if it gave $500 for what you describe.

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David Wilson

Hi Beach Elvis,



I doubt very much that your Revolver began Life with a 2 Inch Barrel.


The present Length of the Ejector Rod would also be a clue, as the Factory 2 Inch 'M&P's had a very short ejector Rod, and, the ( 'Lug-Less' ) 'conversions' almost never changed the Ejector Rod length from it having been for a four or five inch Barrel.

No Under-Lug, ( UNless a Model of 1899 ) is what is typical of a longer Barrel having been cut down to two Inches, and, loosing the under Lug in the process.

Re-Barreled Revolvers, made into 2 Inch Models, are a totally different matter than those which left the S&W Factory being 2 Inch Barrel.


As well as, that the reference for double-the-value and so on, for the Square Butt 2 Inch 'M&P's of the pre-war time - I am told this was a mis-print, and, it was supposed to say, that the Round Butt, 2 inch 'M&P's are the double to triple the value ( of the Square Butt) models.

But, all in all, what you describe is a fairly common modification done right after WWII, to many of the British owned S&W 'M&P's ( virtually always of .38-200 Chambering originally) of whatever vintage - where, they were cut down, or, rebarreled, and, made into Snubbys.

Some were .38 Specials originally, bought in the teens or twenties or thirties, and, later had the same thing done to them along with their .38-200 bretherin.

No images for us to see it?

Though this is a Round Butt version, it shows what a 1920s to mid 1940s ( after which, the previous one line 'Made in USA' became a four line bundle of text ) Factory 2 Inch 'M&P' would look like. ( Pardon the presence of the old, and chipped Grip-Adaptor, it was on there when this image was taken and of course is not original to the Revolver, even if it was probably on it for a long time ).

Note the short Ejector Rod, and, presence of the Barrel's Under Lug for it to lock in to -