A guy locally sent me pics of this old Smith he wants to trade for one of my semi's. I have no idea what model this is and he is also clueless as to what he has. He did say it has the numbers 8 31 09 on it though. Looking at the gun, I seriously doubt it is a fair trade for mine, but I am still curious as to what it has.

It does say .38 sp ctg on it, and also has been stamped on the left side "Converted By Cosswell & Harrington London". I don't know if this is pre-61, but assumed it is which is why I posted here. If anyone knows what this is, an approximate value would be appreciated. Thanks guys.....

It's a .38 M&P. The barrel has been cut down and a different front sight added. I'm assuming that "Converted" means it was converted from .38/200 (.38 S&W) to .38 special. If this is the case and .38 special ammo is fired through it, most likely the cases will split as the diameter of .38 S&W is slightly larger. This may be and old "Lend Lease" gun. It was made sometime in the '40s.
Unless someone here knows more about this than I do I wouldn't value it at much more than $150 as a shooter. You could still fire .38 S&Ws through it but I would have zero interest in it myself.

Victory or Pre Victory .38 S&W sent to England during the Lend-Lease era. Converted to .38 S&W and reimported back to the USA.
Only worth about $200 and its only value is as a shooter.
Thom Braxton
SWCA #1474

I think that you have a Lend Lease gun. It was chambered for the 38/200 round and probably had a 5" barrel. The serial number will be on the bottom of the grip frame. This will tell a bit more. The name on the side was the company that converted it to 38spl, probably cut the barrel and refinished it in blue.

As for value, not all to much

I type slow....

Thanks guys for the fast replies. Yea, I assumed it wasn't worth a whole lot. So, he won't be getting my Glock 30 for it.
The things people come up with to trade guns is amazing. I posted my Glock in a local forum to trade for a "nice" Smith revolver, and this popped up.

Hard to imagine someone coming up with a less appealing Smith trade than that one.Even the triggerguard looks distorted in the second pic...that's after you stop looking at the scaley trigger.

You guys are a lot more generous than I would be. $75.00 TOPS as far as I'm concerned. Of course I wouldn't give $75-80 for Mod 10's when that's what they sold for either.

A small but interesting point: The outfit which did the conversion work of the OP's S&W should read 'Cogswell & Harrison'. They were a famous London maker of British 'best' double (shot)guns. I believe that the British double gun trade had fallen on hard times by the time of the Great Depression. The British (double) Gun Trade also stopped producing sporting guns during WWII and instead produced military parts, such as rifle sights, etc. This positioned them to find related work after WWII such as the conversion of British Government surplus S&W Victory Models. Several famous London gun firms would fail in the 1950s and 1960s.

Interesting info, thanks. I wasn't 100% sure of the name on it, I just blew up the pic and tried to decipher it to the best my aging eyes could do.

I just found one exactly like this..I mean EXACTLY on Gunbroker. They want $375 for it. Good luck with that.
Anyway, the cylinder on the one on GB looks to be a reddish color. I wonder if the company that converted it changed the cylinder to .38 spl as well? I can't post a link to it here but hopefully I'm not in violation by posting the auction number. Its 224734299

Siiiiggghhhhh....

Another butchered Victory Model. Breaks my heart.

I am with you on your price estimate. That gun has no collector value and is not a shooter in my opinion as it will swell or split the cases unless the cylinder was replaced.

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John. SWCA #1586

Believe it or not those C&H conversions are consistently pulling $325+. I certainly don't agree, and I'd buy one at a lower price just to round out my WWII group but....................

W.

Does anyone know if the C&H conversions are properly dimensioned for the 38 Spl? Either sleeved or replacement cylinders?

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Well, good for them and I hope they get their price, but it ain't comin' out of my pocket!

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Even older, even crankier....

I have read that the C&H conversions were well done, and the cylinders were sleeved instead of just running a .38 Special chambering reamer into the .38 S&W chambers, which was the most common conversion method. I would think it might be possible to visually detect the presence of sleeves. The front sight in the picture would not be original.

Were that the case, I'd expect the value to be a bit more than the majority which were simply reamed chambers. By the way, a long time ago I had such a reamed-out .38/200, and I never had any incidents in which a case split occurred while using .38 Special ammunition, and in fact it shot reasonably well, despite the allegedly oversized bore. I have read stories about .38 Special cases splitting in these converted revolvers, but I am not so sure that was ever a problem. Just my personal experience.

DWalt,
I suppose there were some sloppy chamber ream jobs that could have split cases. But the chambers in my Smiths, 38 Spl and 38 S&W only differ by .003". The rounds themselves differ by .008". So the 38 Spl chambers of my new gun are looser for the spl than the 38 S&W chambers are for the 38 S&W cartridges.

Guess it's a case by case issue since. These things can tend to get a little more notoriety than deserved.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

I have heard of others who can easily chamber .38 S&W in a (non-converted) .38 Special revolver. There are manufacturing tolerances for both chamber and ammunition diameters, and I can see that a .38 Special chamber on the high end of the diameter tolerance might easily accommodate a .38 S&W cartridge having a diameter on the low end of the tolerance.

On the other hand, I have also experienced case splits when using the correct ammunition in a revolver. Possibly brass could have been a little brittle from age or exposure.

Yes, some 38 S&W can chamber in a 38 Special. A friend who is reloader claims he didn't realize the difference between the two. He was at the range one day and was shooting up a box he had of the 38 S&W, but in a Mod 10, and was complaining about the 5 or 6 rounds that were too fat to fit the chambers. I explained to him the difference, and he told me he had reloaded some S&W the cases previously in standard 38 Special dies and standard 158 gr. .358 bullets, just a lighter load. I guess that would work if full length resized.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244