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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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Old 05-10-2011, 09:41 AM
Richard Simmons Richard Simmons is offline
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Question Value on 1905 4th change

My BIL emailed me regarding a S&W Model of 1905, 4th change that a coworker has. Don't have the specifics but he's claiming it is NIB with a serial # 3162xx.

Can anyone narrow down the year of manufacture closer than what my SCS&W 3rd edition shows and what would be a ballpark value assuming it's a pretty much plain jane model, (blued, 4", etc.) and really is NIB?

Also what box and or any accessories would be correct for this model and serial #?

TIA
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Old 05-10-2011, 10:58 AM
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Probably 1919. I think the boxes of this era were hinged-top red boxes. If the box belongs to the gun, you might find an old pencil notation of the serial number on the bottom. Probably came with a bore brush, though I don't know that for a fact. I just say that because my impression is that most did.

NIB guns from nearly a century ago are so hard to come buy that even a common model like the 1905 could be fairly pricy. I'd think that could be a $1000-1250 gun, maybe more to a needful buyer.

Up until last year, when I last saw it, there was a nice ANIB 1905/Fourth available for $1200 in San Diego. It had been there for two years since I first saw it, so it was overpriced. If the gun you are inquiring about truly lives up to its billing, it might deserve that price.

I'll be interested to hear what other people think about a proper price.
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Old 05-10-2011, 11:38 AM
Richard Simmons Richard Simmons is offline
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Thank you. I've suggested he forward some photos as well as check under the stocks, send off for a letter from Roy, etc. If I get any further info or pics I'll post them.
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Old 05-10-2011, 12:46 PM
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David

You obviously have more money than I do ! In spite of the condition
and the box, a 4" M&P NIB is a $600 - $800 gun, to me. There is just
too many of them around, not necessarily NIB, to pay more than that.

To paraphrase Ray Brazille, the only thing rarer than a 4" NIB 1905
.38 M&P is a 4" NIB 1905 .38 M&P collector. NIB collectors are a
scarce breed, and with some recent deaths, are getting scarcer !

Regards, Mike Priwer
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Old 05-10-2011, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepriwer View Post
David

You obviously have more money than I do ! In spite of the condition
and the box, a 4" M&P NIB is a $600 - $800 gun, to me. There is just
too many of them around, not necessarily NIB, to pay more than that.

To paraphrase Ray Brazille, the only thing rarer than a 4" NIB 1905
.38 M&P is a 4" NIB 1905 .38 M&P collector. NIB collectors are a
scarce breed, and with some recent deaths, are getting scarcer !

Regards, Mike Priwer
+1 on what Mike just said and It would absolutely have to be pristine, all the goodies and I'd probably want a Letter on it before I even considered it. They aren't my favorite revolver so I wouldn't consider it even for $600 but I know there are a few collectors out there that would pay much more if it all checked out.
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Old 05-10-2011, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepriwer View Post
David

You obviously have more money than I do ! In spite of the condition
and the box, a 4" M&P NIB is a $600 - $800 gun, to me. There is just
too many of them around, not necessarily NIB, to pay more than that.

To paraphrase Ray Brazille, the only thing rarer than a 4" NIB 1905
.38 M&P is a 4" NIB 1905 .38 M&P collector. NIB collectors are a
scarce breed, and with some recent deaths, are getting scarcer !

Regards, Mike Priwer
I totally agree. Around here they don't demand much more than $500. I had a 1916 and no one was interested at $500. Just too many of them around and most collectors seem to be more interested in collecting all the dash numbers and variations of the Model 10 M&Ps.
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Old 05-10-2011, 01:20 PM
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Mike, I won't argue about the proper price here because I have never actually bought a NIB 1905. But the prices I have paid for higher condition M&Ps led me to think that a truly new and spotless 1905 could be a four-digit gun, particularly when we were reaching back to 1920 and before. Looking at asking prices in CA stores and settlement prices in auctions, it seems to me the price range you mention would be appropriate for boxed high condition and almost new M&Ps, leaving room for higher prices on the truly NIB specimens.

The best prewar M&P I have is a 1927 unit, 98 or 99% in box, but not unfired. I don't recall the exact price with house premium included, but it was probably just about $700. I didn't have any buyer's remorse about the price I paid.

And I very much doubt I have more money -- particularly after the damage I did to my acquisition fund last year. In recent months my psychology has moved from "gotta have it" to bargain hunter.
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Old 05-10-2011, 02:27 PM
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Here is a NIB 1905 and some photos of the items that were in the box.





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Old 05-10-2011, 02:28 PM
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Catching up with the other posts ...

Hmm, if three of the best informed guys on the forum are in agreement on one side of this and I'm alone on the other side, I need to reconsider.

Looks like my suggested valuation is at least 25% too high, and maybe more like a third.

Now that I think about it, target M&Ps can be had in new or like new condition for $900 to 1100 depending on box, geography, the usual variables; since they have a built in premium for the adjustable sights, the straight M&Ps have to be less.

I believe in an age premium. NIB 1919 or before feels like more money to me than NIB 1939, even if it is basically the same revolver.

My revised opinion is $800-900. Still north of you all, but not by such a large margin.

John, how would you value the package you showed? Is that 1915-1917 production?
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Old 05-10-2011, 02:45 PM
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My revised opinion is $800-900. Still north of you all, but not by such a large margin.
David, your revised numbers are probably right on for Kali, but I don't think they would fly here in the deep Southeast. JMO
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Old 05-10-2011, 03:09 PM
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David, my gun shipped in 1919 to San Francisco. I would value it at the high of your original estimate of $1000-$1250. While I agree with Mike that there are many 1905's around I have seldom seen one in this condition without a turn-line and no wear at at all. Also the box and all the items shown add significant value. It might not be an easy sale but I am confident that there is a buyer at the price quoted. There are still buyers who are willing to pay for the best quality example of even a common gun, it may not sell at a small gun show or local shop but given the proper venue I think it would sell.
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Old 05-10-2011, 03:49 PM
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Just because some folks wouldn't pay it, doesn't mean it won't sell at or isn't worth a higher price. Or maybe they are a little removed from the current market.

NIB 10-5's are selling for $550. 10-7 heavy barrels for more. Post war gold box M&Ps are $750-$850. Model 60's are bringing $700+.

Need to agree with David's original estimate here and John too. A true NIB 1919 M&P ?!?... C'mon guys.
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Old 05-10-2011, 07:06 PM
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Lets just let the proof be in the pudding, and see what it sells for.

Regards, Mike Priwer
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Old 06-08-2011, 08:50 AM
Richard Simmons Richard Simmons is offline
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Update:

Still haven't gotten any photos from the owner but he did contact S&W and was given a date of 9/19/19 for the gun. In his email he referred to that as the date it was made but I would imagine it's the date it was shipped from the factory.

Just thought I'd post that bit of info to link a date to the serial number, 3162xx.

Last edited by Richard Simmons; 06-08-2011 at 10:21 AM.
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