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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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  #1  
Old 06-23-2011, 11:29 PM
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Grandpa's S&W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902) Grandpa's S&W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902) Grandpa's S&W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902) Grandpa's S&W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902) Grandpa's S&W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902)  
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Default Grandpa's S&W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902)

I have inherited my grandpa's S&W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902).Manufactured c. 1902-1903.

On the bottom of the handle it is stamped with a star next to the 316xx serial number. What does the star stand for if anything?

It came with a 1939 Eubanks Leather (Boise ID) flap holster that needs restitched as the belt loop is falling off. I really want to keep the gun and holster together and have them useable, so I am going to have it restitched by a professional.

I grew up shooting this gun and have nothing but good memories surrounding it. I am very proud to be able to carry it forward another generation and plan on passing it down to my boy as well when the time comes.

I was told it was my grandfathers revolver when he was in the ROTC while going to college at Idaho University in the late 30ís. which explains the military and police markings on both gun and holster.

Any information on this gun or holster would be greatly appreciated if anyone has any history to add for this model. To be honest I know little to nothing about revolver history. I did not even know it was so old of a gun until I found this site.

I need to find a replacement grip handle. Anyone know where I might be able to find a black rubber grip for the opposite side of the gun that is shown in the picture. It is cracked clean through and was glued back together at some point.

Thanks
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Old 06-23-2011, 11:40 PM
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Grandpa's S&W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902) Grandpa's S&W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902) Grandpa's S&W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902) Grandpa's S&W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902) Grandpa's S&W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902)  
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Welcome to the Forum. The star indicates a factory rework, usually but not always a refinishing; it was stamped so the returned gun could not be passed off as new.

Yours has a 6 1/2" barrel which was standardized at 6" not many years after it was made. It should not be used with high-pressure loads should you decide to shoot it.

If you post a Wanted to Buy ad here you should specify you are looking for "pre-war round butt hard rubber service stocks". Hope this is helpful.
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Old 06-23-2011, 11:55 PM
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If you have no luck finding an original replacement grip for the pistol, try looking at vintagegungrips.com. Found them by looking at the supplier code on some grips at Midway USA. They have reproductions of all kinds and even in lots of colors. (about $24.00 +s&h)
Larry
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Old 06-24-2011, 12:39 AM
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Take the stocks off and check the inside right panel. You may find the gun's serial number scratched on the inside right surface. If so, don't throw the old stocks away when you replace them for appearance's sake. They were factory fitted to the gun nearly 110 years ago. Even broken and worn, they have value, and they belong with that piece. If there is no number, it may be those stocks date to the time when the gun went back for service.

One other thing. look on the steel grip frame while you have the stocks off and see if there is a stamped number like 11.16 -- that would mean November of 1916, and that would be the month in which the gun went back to the factory for work.

I'm not quite sure when the policy of date-stamping service returns began, but your gun may have been on the proper side of the boundary to be stamped.

When you get the holster repaired, you can carry the gun in it, but don't store it in the holster. Leather has acids that can attack the gun's finish. You can get a silicone impregnated gun sock at any gun store, or a silicone cloth that you can wrap around it.

If the action is sound, you can shoot that gun. But avoid all overpressure ammo (+P, +P+) and stay with the standard or soft loads. I shoot 148 gr wadcutter match ammo in all my prewar M&Ps (including a four-inch 1902/first change that is just a year or two younger than yours).

And welcome to the forum! I should have said that first.
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Old 06-24-2011, 01:42 AM
mikepriwer mikepriwer is offline
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Grandpa's S&W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902) Grandpa's S&W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902) Grandpa's S&W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902) Grandpa's S&W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902) Grandpa's S&W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902)  
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If possible, post a picture (or two) of the other side of the gun.

One of the interesting things about this gun is that it has a straight
tapered barrel, with no shoulder at the frame face. Only the model
of 1899, and the model of 1902 (no change) use this barrel. In about
1903, there was an engineering change that beefed up the frame
face, and the threaded portion of the barrel. This resulted in a
shoulder on the barrel, that exists to this day. That early engineering
change results in the guns being known as 1902 1st change.

Mike Priwer
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Old 06-24-2011, 11:22 AM
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Grandpa's S&W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902) Grandpa's S&W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902) Grandpa's S&W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902) Grandpa's S&W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902) Grandpa's S&W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902)  
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The inside of the grip does have the serial number scratched in to it. There is also a stamp of 6.49 on the frame under the grips. Here are some more pictures. Let me know if there are any other angles that would help see what I got.
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Old 06-24-2011, 11:43 AM
mikepriwer mikepriwer is offline
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I can't tell what might have been done, by the factory, when it was
returned in June of 1949. Possibly a refinish, possibly something else.
Nonetheless. what you have is an early Model of 1902.

I wanted to see the left side of the gun, to look at the ends of the
studs. They are properly rounded, so if the factory did refinish it, they
probably removed them first.

Your grip problem is easily fixed. Find another pair of grips, which are
readily available, but replace only the broken left panel. Don't replace
the right panel - that is the one that is serial-numbered to the gun,
and it is fine. You want to keep it that way. Grips for these guns
are always available at gun shows, and even from members here.

Mike Priwer
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Old 06-24-2011, 11:57 AM
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Thanks a ton! How good of shape does this gun seem for its age to you guys.

I am going to call my dad tonight and let him know what I have found out about the gun. It will be fun to tell him that it was manufactured early on in 1902, that it was sent back in to S&W in 6.49, and that the grips are even original. What would a gun like this be worth? Don’t get me wrong it will never be for sale god willing but would be fun to tell my dad it could be worth as much as X amount of $$.

How much should I expect to pay for the grip side? Is there a place to put a WTB on this forum?

So what type of frame is this gun?

Is it a first change or a second change with not having the barrel sholder?

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Old 06-24-2011, 12:55 PM
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This K-frame gun is from early 1903, and is known as a Model of 1902. Following
the engineering changes I mentioned, the collectors refer to those guns
as Model of 1902 1st change. From the collectors perspective, there
were no other changes to the 1902; they roll it into the next model,
the Model of 1905. The factory did not do this, but that is another story.

For its age, the gun is in good condition. It shows some blue loss, and
some wear to the surfaces, but that is to be expected from a 110 year
old gun that was used. I don't recall if you checked the bore - typically
they will exhibit pitting, because of the corrosive black-powder of the
period. Clean it well, and keep it oiled. I have a feeling this gun has
been refinished; the original-period blue was somewhat delicate, and
would typically exhibit a peeling effect, even though it was not peeling
off. The blue on this gun looks more durable, and is not showing any
peeling effect.

I also don't recall if you checked the serial numbers on the rear face
of the cylinder, and on the flat area under the barrel. If the gun is
all original, those numbers will all be the same.

The highest known serial number for an early model of 1902 is 33803,
so this gun is close to the introduction of the heavier barrel. The model
of 1902 started at about serial number 20500, so there are only about
13,000 early model 1902's made. Maybe 10% survive to this day,
plus or minus a few. Its a scarce gun; given its condition, its perhaps
a $300 to $350 gun, maybe $400 to the right collector.

While this gun is collectible, its condition is not high enough to warrant
a high price. But, it has collector interest. The thing about this gun
is the relatively soft steel of the period. This means it not suitable
for shooting the hotter +p loads , for example.

Hope this helps, Mike Priwer
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Old 06-24-2011, 01:43 PM
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Grandpa's S&W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902) Grandpa's S&W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902) Grandpa's S&W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902) Grandpa's S&W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902) Grandpa's S&W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902)  
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Thanks for all of the info.

It does have the matching serial # on the bottom of the barrel and in the back of the cylinder. The bore looks to be in great shape with no pitting that I can see. Is it bad from a collectorís point of view that it may have been refinished? If it has already been refinished once would it be bad to have it redone?
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Old 06-24-2011, 02:08 PM
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Its only my guess that its been refinished once. Where you found that
date under the grips, look for something like [R], or [B], or <R>, or
perhaps [R-B]. Those are some of the markings for a refinish. Check all
around both sides of the grip frame.

Unless there is some good reason, refinishing always has a detrimental
effect on the collector value of the gun, because then the gun has
zero percent original finish; its been refinished. In the case of this gun,
the factory will not work on it , because its too old. They no longer have
parts for these old guns; any gun that comes in for any servicing is
always checked to make sure it functions properly. Since they have
no parts, they can't fix anything if it needed it, and therefore their
policy is to not accept guns this old, for any servicing.

The problem with refinishing is that the original roll markings often
get washed out, or even are lost. This is because a good refinish
requires a near-perfect surface. Any dings, dents, scratches, rust pits,
etc, have to be removed by filing and sanding, and this is what
damages the roll markings.

Bottom line is - unless there is some good reason to have a gun
refinished , do not do it.

Mike Priwer
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Old 06-24-2011, 02:25 PM
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On the under side of the barrel next to the serial # it has a B inside a dimond <B> stamped into the metal. But there are no other markings besides the 6.49 under the grips.

In the handle frame ridgeline metal it has some decrative etching design running the length of the back strap, would that be original?

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Old 06-24-2011, 02:52 PM
mikepriwer mikepriwer is offline
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The <B> under the barrel means that something specific was done to
the barrel. Like maybe it was replaced, and serial-numbered to the
frame. The serial number on the rear face of the cylinder should be
a very fine, small, and lightly-stamped serial number. An original
serial number under the barrel would also use the same small, fine,
number stamps, and they would be very close to the frame. Does it
look this way ? If possible, get us some close-up pictures of the
serial number in all three places; butt, rear face of cylinder, and flat
under the barrel.

As to some decoration on the rear grip stap, get us a picture or
two , of that. Without seeing a picture, I don't know what that might
be.

Mike Priwer
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Old 06-24-2011, 06:55 PM
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i am going to a gunshow this weekend. i will look for a pair of grips. (or possibly just the left one!)
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Old 06-24-2011, 11:17 PM
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Blowing up the pictures with the holster the gun does not show any indications of being re-finished. The factory date-code and re-work star indicate that something was done to it in 1949. What would be definitive is if there is an indication of "cratering", a raised burr, around the star on the butt. If the gun has not been re-finished since that stamp was applied this will be obvious. If it is polished smooth the gun was re-finished after the star was applied.

Again, blowing up the picture it appears this gun has the hardened inserts in the cylinder stop notches. This is characteristic of only very early hand-ejectors and ended about 1906 or so. Are the inserts there?

Both Vintage Gun Grips and N.C. Ordnance insist they do not make a reproduction stock for a M&P, unfortunately. This one, S & W Perfected Model .38 Revolver , may work. It is for the "Perfected Model which was a hinged frame revolver built on what appears to be the M&P frame.

FWIW, the Military & Police markings have nothing to do with your Grandfather owning it while he was in ROTC. S&W designated the model as M&P, and Eubank marked the holster to indicate it was intended to fit that model, nothing more.

Eubank Leather later became Idaho Leather and made very well thought of holsters. The company is still in Boise, although under different ownership, and still makes the old-style basket stamped, laced and 1/2 lined holsters they were well known for for many years. They are all custom work now, and definitely do not sell for $6-8 like they did in the 1960s.
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Old 06-25-2011, 12:07 AM
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Thanks for posting pictures of your Grandfather's revolver! I have enjoyed seeing it and the discussion and information. I have learned something about the 1902 that I have (also an early model with a 4" barrel). I'm quite sure mine has original finish, but not much of that. I think it shows what another member mentioned as the fragile finish that tends to look like it flaked or peeled off. This is SN 28,069.



Rob
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Old 06-25-2011, 01:37 AM
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The 4" gun illustrates the "peeling" effect on the cylinder, although its
not peeling. Its just what happens to these early finishes.

This gun, to me, is the classic K-frame. The proportions have a lot of
eye appeal. There is a lot of blue loss, perhaps due to blood. Beyond that, its a classic.

Mike Priwer
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Old 06-29-2011, 04:25 PM
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more pictures
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Old 06-29-2011, 04:30 PM
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..........
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Old 06-29-2011, 08:10 PM
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Thanks for the additional pictures. I think that the barrel was replaced,
and when that was done, the gun was reblued. This doesn't change
anything about the gun, but its what I think.

The primary indicator of this is the serial numbers that are stamped
under the barrel. That, in my view, is not the right stamping, for the
1903 - 1904 period. When the gun was originally made, the stamping
dies used were very fine, and small, and produced very lightly
stamped digits. They were also in a very straight line.

The present serial number stamping is exactly the opposite. The
digits do not lie in a straight line, and the are stamped very deeply.
This is much more like the stampings of the late 1940's .

I would presume that the factory had some extra spare-parts barrels
from this period. This is because this barrel has the dual-caliber
stamping. Maybe it was an extra one from 1903, and was already
blued, although I doubt it. Rather I would think that it needed to be
blued, after fitting it to this frame, and to make the colors match,
they probably refinished the entire gun.

The marking on the rear grip strap is not factory. Someone did that
decoration; I have no idea as to who, when, or where.

Regards, Mike Priwer
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Old 06-29-2011, 08:43 PM
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Thanks mike. I was thinking that the barrel looked a little too pristine. You can not see it from the pictures but the barrel bluing is in much better shape than the rest of the gun, except at the end where the barrel was too long for the holster and it shows some wear. I bet that is why the inside of the barrel shows no black powder pitting. I am glad the barrel was replaced before they stopped working on these at the factory, I suppose the new barrel change out is a good thing in a way.

What is the dual-caliber stamping you speak of?

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Old 06-29-2011, 09:05 PM
Teddydog Teddydog is offline
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Grandpa's S&amp;W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902) Grandpa's S&amp;W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902) Grandpa's S&amp;W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902) Grandpa's S&amp;W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902) Grandpa's S&amp;W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902)  
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The dual-caliber marking that Mike is talking about is on the right side of the barrel, where it says both "S&W Spl Ctg" AND "US Service Ctg" (or whatever the actual stampings are). I was pretty sure mine does not have that, nor the decorative scroll engraving on the backstrap, but didn't want to comment until I could be certain. I'll also see if I can get pics of the under-barrel serial number stamping.

Rob
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Old 06-29-2011, 09:59 PM
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Its actually on the left side of the barrel. It just means that the gun
is chambered for both of those cartridges.

Its possible that the rest of the gun was not refinished, if in fact the
blue is in much better condition on the barrel. I'd be surprised if it
was not refinished, but maybe not. I don't see any easily-observable
direct evidence of a reblue.

Most, but not all, of these early 1902's show pitting in the bore. This
is because of the corrosive nature of the black powder of the era.
Indeed, having the barrel replaced in 1949 would make a big difference!

All in all, a nice gun.

Regards, Mike Priwer
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Old 06-30-2011, 10:16 AM
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How is the US Service Ctg different from the 38 special? Is it still an availible cartrige to buy? It would be cool to get a box if indeed my gun can shoot them.
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Old 06-30-2011, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lts70 View Post
How is the US Service Ctg different from the 38 special? Is it still an availible cartrige to buy? It would be cool to get a box if indeed my gun can shoot them.
That's what S&W called the .38 Long Colt. They didn't want to put Colt's name on their gun. Within a few years the .38 LC dropped out of the picture. Colt adopted the .38 Special as the de facto standard, and it has been ever since.
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Old 06-30-2011, 11:08 AM
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I see that you can still purchase 38 long colt Ammo. Are there any advatages or disadvatages in using this ammo for target shooting in my 1902?
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Old 06-30-2011, 12:54 PM
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There is no reason to take on the extra expense in shooting .38 Long Colt in your 1902. Mild .38 Special loads will be fine. .38 LC is a less-powerful cartridge and a slighly shorter case length.

Rob
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Old 06-30-2011, 04:25 PM
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What is considered a mild load for a 38 special? I have always shot WWB 38 special RN FMJ. It that ok?

I think I will buy one box of 38 LC to have just for the heck of it but shoot the 38 special for plinking. It would be cool to get a period correct box of ammo. Probably to hard to find and out of my price range though.

Thanks a ton guys you have been a wealth of knowledge and help. A special thanks to mikepriwer you are the man.
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Old 06-30-2011, 09:43 PM
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"This
is because of the corrosive nature of the black powder of the era."

Corrosive primers were mostly responsible for the pitting found in older guns.
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Old 07-01-2011, 01:40 PM
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Muley

Do you know if, when smokeless powder was introduced, the primers
were changed to something less corrosive ?

Mike Priwer
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Old 07-02-2011, 12:01 AM
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Some of the commercial ammo, pre WW II, did have non-corrosive primers. IIRC, Winchester had "Staynless" primers. My spelling is probably off.

I believe by the late '20s, early '30s, noncorrosive primers were standard.

US military ammo continued to use corrosive primed ammo into the war. The exception is ammo for the M1 carbine. I believe corrosive ammo was used by the military into the 1950s. The military felt that the older primers were more stable.
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Old 07-02-2011, 09:31 AM
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I am by far not an expert, but I have shot black powder for years, and as a serious competitor for the last 11. I have on occasion done a quick poor job of cleaning at the range, and then forgotten to do a better job when I got home. That means my 1855 rifle has sat uncleaned for a month or so, and although it develops a light rust in the bore, a brushing and swab with oil takes it out. (It is hard to hurt these guns, and no, it is not original, I built it myself)

On the other hand, I forgot to swab out the bore of my nagant rifle after a trip to range shooting corrosive primer ammo. I found it after a short period of time and the corrosion was a much more serious issue and took a lot of work to clean up.

So, this not so scientific example makes me think the primers are at least as bad if not a worse culprit than the black powder, or maybe a faster acting one. Either way, clean up after you shoot.

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Old 07-02-2011, 09:48 AM
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Now that I know the barrel has been changed out. Is it possible the gun started life as a 5" and was changed to the 6.5" when the barrel was changed? The holster I have is just barely too short and was un-stitched so that the gun would fit.

If I got a letter from S&W would it tell me what the gun was originally (5" or 6") and what all was done to it in 1949?
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  #34  
Old 07-02-2011, 11:55 AM
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A letter should confirm the original barrel length. Be sure to include
the full serial number, mentioning the * on the butt, and also mention
the <B> under the barrel, and the date stamped on the grip frame.
Clearly ask about the original barrel length.

Its entirely possible that the barrel was shorter, but maybe not.
From the picture, even a 5" would be a tight fit - maybe the original
length was 4". However, your first post mentioned your grandfather
using the gun in ROTC, in maybe 1916 - 1917 ? If so, that is about
13 years after the gun was shipped. I can't imagine your grandfather
carrrying the gun in a holster like that, so perhaps the holster came
years later.

Hopefully a letter will clear this up. By including the date stamped
on the grip frame, the historian may be able to find the service dept.
records. That is somewhat doubtful, but one never knows.

Regards, Mike Priwer
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Old 07-02-2011, 12:39 PM
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I also have a Model 1902 .38 special which belonged to my grandfather. Roy Jinks says this one was shipped 4/20/1904 to Belknap Hardware in Louisville, KY. It was shipped with a 5-inch barrel, nickel finish, and black checkered grips, which reflects its configuration now. My grandfather carried it in the pictured shoulder holster as a country store owner in Crittenden, Kentucky in the early 20th Century. It's seen considerable service and abuse, and has been re-nickeled at least once. There are no factory rework marks on it. The serial numbers on the frame, barrel and cylinder all match. My grandfather died in 1942, and my grandmother used it as a house gun until her death in 1975, at which point I inherited it in its present condition. I have shot it just once, with very light loads.



The action on these old-timers is interesting. Here's a shot of the internals on this gun. When the hammer is at rest, it's easy to push it forward with your thumb so that the firing pin protrudes through the recoil shield. I can see why it was later changed; it was not until WWII that these were drop-proofed with an internal hammer block safety bar. Note that there is no rebound slide; a different system was used on these early ones.

John

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Old 07-02-2011, 01:27 PM
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Thanks again Mike! I am digging the look of your gun John (PALADIN85020), some great history as well.

What is the best way to get in contact with Roy Jinks? Anyone have an email or physical address? I want to send him my gun info and see what he can find out for me.

I talked to my dad and he said it was ether a ROTC gun my grandpa used in the 30's or a gun used to guard German Merchant Marines stationed in Idaho during WWII or possibly both. He lived in Sugar City Idaho. I did find this on-line that shows there where German POW's in Sugar City.

"Idaho became home to two major and sixteen minor German and Italian prisoner of war (POW) camps. The largest camps were located at Farragut and Rupert, others were in Rexburg, Sugar City, Rigby, and Idaho Falls.(16) The Second World War recovered Idaho's failing economy completely and put to use the agricultural, natural, and political resources of the state."

http://www.kindredtrails.com/Idaho_History-4.html

He is trying to get some more family history info for me as well as hopefully some pictures of my grandpa in uniform with his gun hopefully. I would love to know more history on this gun and my Grandpa.

I got some black walnut and I am going to make a presentation box for it. I want to put a false bottom in it to store the holster and S&W letter. Then on the inside of the lid put the picture of my grandpa, his name, years lived, and model of the gun & year.

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Old 07-02-2011, 01:28 PM
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As to the corrosiveness of black powder, my observations of early
K-frames is that the 1899's and 1902's usually have pitting in the
bore. Much more prevalent than in guns produced after 1910, or so.
Sometime around 1908, the factory no longer considered the use of
smokeless powder to void the warranty. I've always assumed that
the expanded use of smokeless powder, from about 1908 on, was the
underlying reason for the relatively good condition of bores, on guns
made after about 1908 or so.

If one googles "corrosive black powder", there is no end of articles
about this. Its also the case that, at some point, something was
added/changed in black powders, to eliminate the corrosion problem.

Its also my observation that its the early M&P's, and not targets, that
show so much pitting in the bores. This may be because M&P's were
primarily daily carry guns used by police officers, and perhaps they were
not cleaned as often, or as well, as the target revolvers. As a rule,
early target revolvers are in much better condition than early M&P's .

Mike Priwer

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Old 07-02-2011, 01:31 PM
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Send all the information, and a check for $50, to

Roy Jinks, Historian
Smith & Wesson
2100 Roosevelt Avenue
Springfield, MA 01104

That will do it.

Mike Priwer
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Old 07-02-2011, 01:45 PM
Muley Gil Muley Gil is online now
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tgd31968,

Do you shoot with the N-SSA?

Mike, I agree that the target model firearms that I have examined over the years have had better care taken of them.

I've been shooting black powder firearms since 1969 and I have had the same results that tgd31968 has experienced. I have also shot some old ammo that was loaded with smokeless powder and corrosive primers and had rust form much faster than weapons shot with black powder and noncorrosive percussion caps.

The military, and others, used to recommend cleaning your weapon three days in a row after shooting corrosive primed ammo.
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Old 07-02-2011, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepriwer View Post
Send all the information, and a check for $50, to

Roy Jinks, Historian
Smith & Wesson
2100 Roosevelt Avenue
Springfield, MA 01104

That will do it.

Mike Priwer
Mike, I believe I read over on the SWCA page that the charge for a factory letter is now $60.00. Everything costs mo' these days.

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Old 07-02-2011, 09:01 PM
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According to their website it is luckily still $50. See link

Firearm History Request - Smith & Wesson

Anyone have any good pictures of nice storage boxes? I am liking this one.
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Old 07-02-2011, 10:25 PM
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S&W Letter of Authenticity Request Form
Maximum of three (3) requests per week

Name & Address (Please Type or Print Clearly)

First
Last
Circle- Mr. Ms. Mrs.
Street
City
State & Zip Code


Description 1:
Model # (or S&W Name)
*Exact Caliber
Full Serial # (Include any letter left of #)
Barrel Length
Finish (Blue, Nickel, Stainless, Other)
Grip Shape (Square or Round)
Target (or Special) Trigger, Hammer, Front Sight?
Fixed or Adjustable Rear Sight?
Unusual (Non-Standard) Features?
Stocks (Wood, Target, etc.)
Photo or Sketch Enclosed? Circle- YES NO
Additional Comments**:




Description 2:
Model # (or S&W Name)
*Exact Caliber
Full Serial # (Include any letter left of #)
Barrel Length
Finish (Blue, Nickel, Stainless, Other)
Grip Shape (Square or Round)
Target (or Special) Trigger, Hammer, Front Sight?
Fixed or Adjustable Rear Sight?
Unusual (Non-Standard) Features?
Stocks (Wood, Target, etc.)
Photo or Sketch Enclosed? Circle- YES NO
Additional Comments**:




Description 3:
Model # (or S&W Name)
*Exact Caliber
Full Serial # (Include any letter left of #)
Barrel Length
Finish (Blue, Nickel, Stainless, Other)
Grip Shape (Square or Round)
Target (or Special) Trigger, Hammer, Front Sight?
Fixed or Adjustable Rear Sight?
Unusual (Non-Standard) Features?
Stocks (Wood, Target, etc.)
Photo or Sketch Enclosed? Circle- YES NO
Additional Comments**:




*Exact Caliber - If you donít know the exact name of caliber, please measure length of cylinder accurately. (e.g. .38 S&W Special is exact, while .32, .38, .44, .45 are NOT exact, specific names). **Additional Comments: The more information you can supply about the gun, the more information may be forthcoming with the letter.

Enclose check payable to "Smith & Wesson" at the rate of $50 (U.S. Funds) for each gun you wish to "Letter."
Mail To: Mr. Roy G. Jinks, Historian
Smith & Wesson
P.O. Box 2208
Springfield, MA01102



Above is a copy of the S&W historical letter request form. Remember to supply as much information about the gun as you can. The more you give the more you get.

I agree with Mike that the barrel does not look original. The font used to stamp the frame and cylinder differs from the one used on the barrel. Specifically look at the shape of the (1) and the (6) in the photos provided.

All in all a very neat gun and a very interesting and informative thread (Thanks Mike P.). That gun with all of its family history is priceless in my humble opinion. I have several guns owned by my grandfathers and my father (all gone now) that will never leave my hands while I am alive.
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  #43  
Old 07-03-2011, 12:19 AM
tgd31968 tgd31968 is offline
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Quote:
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tgd31968,

Do you shoot with the N-SSA?
Yes. Northwest Territory.

It makes sense to me that BP could be differently compounded today than it was 110 years ago. Look at the difference in fouling between two modern brands, Goex and Swiss. Something about Swiss seems to make it burn less dirty, so why not a change between powder from the last 30 years, and powder 100 years ago?
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  #44  
Old 07-03-2011, 01:15 AM
Muley Gil Muley Gil is online now
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Grandpa's S&amp;W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902) Grandpa's S&amp;W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902) Grandpa's S&amp;W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902) Grandpa's S&amp;W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902) Grandpa's S&amp;W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902)  
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I shoot with the 34th Battalion, Virginia Cavalry, out of the New England region. Our membership stretches from FL to NH.

"Something about Swiss seems to make it burn less dirty..."

Seems like I remember that it is a different type of charcoal, maybe alder.
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Old 03-19-2023, 05:09 PM
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Grandpa's S&amp;W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902) Grandpa's S&amp;W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902) Grandpa's S&amp;W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902) Grandpa's S&amp;W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902) Grandpa's S&amp;W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902)  
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Rob,

I'm sure it happens but what's the odds... your gun is 28069, mine is 28070. S&W model 1902 M&P 38cal 5". I call mine the ugly duck. Just have it apart right now.
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Old 03-19-2023, 08:35 PM
mikepriwer mikepriwer is offline
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Grandpa's S&amp;W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902) Grandpa's S&amp;W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902) Grandpa's S&amp;W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902) Grandpa's S&amp;W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902) Grandpa's S&amp;W.38 special Military and Police 2nd Model (Model of 1902)  
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1902Smith

Now that's a gun that needs some TLC on its surface, he said with a smile! It's really seen some wear and tear, but I'd expect that it still functions properly.

One of the things I like, and pay attention to, is the font style of the serial numbering on the barrel, cylinder, and butt. Your gun 28070 has that beautiful curvy style of font. Look at the curves on portions of the 2 and the 7. Also look at the depth of the stamping - it's not stamped very deep at all. All in all, very classy workmanship.

It is indeed interesting that your serial number is one digit away from the other gun. It can be said, with a high degree of certainty, that for every gun made, there are two others with a serial number one digit away: one above it, and one below it. Finding those two other guns is a whole other matter!

Regards, Mike Priwer
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Old 03-19-2023, 09:36 PM
Teddydog Teddydog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1902Smith View Post
Rob,

I'm sure it happens but what's the odds... your gun is 28069, mine is 28070. S&W model 1902 M&P 38cal 5". I call mine the ugly duck. Just have it apart right now.

Thanks for bringing my attention to this thread! It is an old one for sure...the thread AND the revolver.

Looks like yours has even less finish than mine. Glad to see you are taking steps to conserve it.

Now...who will step up with 28068 or 71 and make it a thruple??


Rob
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