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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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Old 07-30-2011, 07:36 AM
redvol redvol is offline
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My Dad has a 1917 he bought yesterday.It has U S property on the bottom of the barrel. On the bottom of the butt it has NO 4 099 what does that mean?
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Old 07-30-2011, 08:09 AM
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thats the serial number. can you post pictures. thats a early
serial number, should have a dished grips and a grooved hammer.
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Old 07-30-2011, 09:40 AM
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What does the no 4 mean? does the 099 mean its the 99th gun?
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Old 07-30-2011, 09:54 AM
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your number 4099, they put 4 above 099 becouse they didn't have room for the hole number....
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Old 07-30-2011, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redvol View Post
What does the no 4 mean? does the 099 mean its the 99th gun?
The complete serial number is 4099. It was typical to have a two-line serial number on 45 H.E. Model 1917s with the last three digits on the second line.

The serial number on this one is 77168



If you are able, please post pictures for us to admire.

Russ

Last edited by linde; 07-30-2011 at 10:03 AM. Reason: correct caliber
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Old 07-30-2011, 10:14 AM
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And welcome to the forum.
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Old 07-30-2011, 10:22 AM
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Thats a low # when do you think it was made? Was all of them made in 1917? What is this thing worth?
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Old 07-30-2011, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redvol View Post
Thats a low # when do you think it was made? Was all of them made in 1917? What is this thing worth?
There were approximately 163,600 made for the U.S. Army between September 17, 1917 and January 1919. Yours was likely shipped in late 1917. There were later Commercial & Brazilian versions produced.

Value depends a great deal on condition. Pictures would be very helpful to even come close.

Welcome to the Forum,

Russ
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Old 07-30-2011, 10:39 AM
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all depends on condition. i would say your gun was made in 1917....
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Old 07-30-2011, 10:43 AM
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I'll try and get a picture from my dad and post it.
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Old 07-30-2011, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
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... when do you think it was made? Was all of them made in 1917? ...
There is a website that dates them (see link below). It says your date of manufacture is December 1917, which is early.

Not all of them were made in 1917. The war lasted until 11 am November 11, 1918 -- ("the eleventh hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month" -- I believe Hitler often complained that Germany quit WWI at the "eleventh hour", meaning "too soon" but then he was nuts I think we can all agree) -- and S&W kept making them for the Army for a short time even after the war ended.

That may be a little more than you wanted, but anyways here's the link:
http://oldguns.net/sn_php/milmods.htm
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Last edited by Jack Flash; 07-30-2011 at 11:49 AM. Reason: First link did not seem to work(?)
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Old 07-30-2011, 02:11 PM
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i for got to mention, you will also find that same number on the face of the cylinder,barrel flat and under the right hand grip panel if grips are original.

ps.. open the cylinder turn the gun upside down and the number should be close to where the barrel meets the frame....
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Old 07-30-2011, 02:20 PM
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You can also see it on the yoke (crane) if you look through one of the chambers with a flashlight.
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Old 07-30-2011, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
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I'll try and get a picture from my dad and post it.
Please get several pictures. Digital doesn't cost anything so there's no reason to be stingy.
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Old 07-30-2011, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redvol View Post
Thats a low # when do you think it was made? Was all of them made in 1917? What is this thing worth?
Your 1917 was delivered to the Government during the week of December 1, 1917, according to data in Pate's book. Most 1917's were delivered in 1918.

Value is hard to determine without seeing the gun. It can range from a few hundred dollars to over a thousand. It depends a lot on condition and originality of finish. Some 1917's were refurbished in government arsenals prior to WWII.

We can make a good estimate if you can post clear, sharp pictures showing all the surfaces on the revolver. Have some that show the whole revolver, and some close-ups of marking details, grips, etc. Don't forget top and bottom views.

Buck
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Old 07-30-2011, 09:55 PM
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Here ya go, boys.
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Old 07-30-2011, 09:56 PM
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Old 07-30-2011, 09:58 PM
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Old 07-30-2011, 10:41 PM
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I knew ivory shrunk, but I didn't know wood did.

Could those be Victory grips on that thing?

Are they all marked US Property, on the bottom of the barrel? Mine's not, but mine's been bobbed.

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Old 07-30-2011, 10:44 PM
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Wow, thats a nice early gun with all the right parts. The condition isn't that great, but it'll sure make a nice representative shooter. How's the bore and chambers? Can we know what he paid for it?
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Old 07-30-2011, 11:02 PM
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He paid 200.00 for this gun and a winchester model 94 30wcf.
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Old 07-30-2011, 11:24 PM
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Quote:
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He paid 200.00 for this gun and a winchester model 94 30wcf.
And he did that without a mask? I'm obviously not shopping in the right places.

The gun appears to be original finish with a fair amount of finish wear. Assuming that it's in good mechanical condition (carry-up, lock-up, aligned chambers) it will make a great shooter. Retail value: $400-$500. If someone really wants a very early model, you might add $100+ to that.

Buck
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Old 07-31-2011, 12:30 AM
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"I knew ivory shrunk, but I didn't know wood did.

Could those be Victory grips on that thing?

Are they all marked US Property, on the bottom of the barrel? Mine's not, but mine's been bobbed."

Yes, wood shrinks. No, those are N frame grips. Look how fit they fit at the top. Besides, the early grips were concave at the top, as are these grips. Victory grips were never concave.

The government 1917s should have markings like the gun shown. Commercial 1917s should have only a serial number on the butt. If you 1917 has neither, that could be a problem with law enforcement.
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Old 07-31-2011, 03:39 AM
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Quote:
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He paid 200.00 for this gun and a winchester model 94 30wcf.
Two classics for $200! What a deal! Very nice!
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Old 07-31-2011, 06:43 AM
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hell of a deal on a early gun. all correct very cool.
tell you old man congrats...........
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Old 07-31-2011, 08:13 AM
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Is the price
$500.00 to $600.00?
What about the winchester model 94 -30 wcf its serial # is 16399975 ?
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Old 07-31-2011, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
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Is the price
$500.00 to $600.00?
What about the winchester model 94 -30 wcf its serial # is 16399975 ?
That's too many numbers. 16 million 4. I don't think they reached 6 million, although I know they made more than 5.

Possibly you have an extra 9 in there?, which would make it 1 million 6. That would have been made in 1950. Pre-1964 94s can reach a grand or more, depending on condition.

edit: Looking again at your post, I see you said 30WCF instead of 30/30. If the gun is marked WCF, then it is certainly pre-64. They haven't put that marking on for a while. Actually, I thought they hadn't used that one since the war.
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Old 07-31-2011, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muley Gil View Post
"I knew ivory shrunk, but I didn't know wood did.

Could those be Victory grips on that thing?

Are they all marked US Property, on the bottom of the barrel? Mine's not, but mine's been bobbed."

Yes, wood shrinks. No, those are N frame grips. Look how fit they fit at the top. Besides, the early grips were concave at the top, as are these grips. Victory grips were never concave.

The government 1917s should have markings like the gun shown. Commercial 1917s should have only a serial number on the butt. If you 1917 has neither, that could be a problem with law enforcement.
I saw how well they fit at the top, but the bottom being so short, I thought - well, maybe. Didn't know about the "concave top", as I'm not a collector. I'm more of an accumulator.

Yes, mine is numbered on the barrel flat, bottom of the grip, face of the cylinder and front of the crane (I didn't even know about that one until I read this thread, but I looked and it's there). Just wondered about the US Property mark. I figgered whoever had cut this 1918-made 1917 had
used that length simply because it looked good. Any shorter and it would be too close to the lug. But, from looking at his, they did it just past the Y in Property.
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Old 07-31-2011, 03:13 PM
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It was to many nine's the # is 1639975
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Old 07-31-2011, 04:41 PM
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It is actually the yoke for S&W's, crane is a Colt term. S&W also used checking for checkering and stocks for grips back then. During the post Wesson S&W years, the terms co-mingled and now S&W printed material says grips and checkering.
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Old 07-31-2011, 07:36 PM
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Whoa, wait a minute!

Quote:
He paid 200.00 for this gun and a winchester model 94 30wcf.
When I first read that line, I thought it mean he gave $200 AND a rifle for the M1917.

Are you telling me you got the M1917 AND the Winchester for $200? If the guns aren't hot, that's the deal of the year!
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Old 07-31-2011, 09:13 PM
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Now that's the kinda 1917 I would love to have in my safe. I love the early ones with the low serial, grooved hammer and concave grips. I just don't see them offered anymore. There was one on GB but it had stippled straps on the frame. The search continues for me but that's half..no, one third the fun.

Roger
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Old 07-31-2011, 10:00 PM
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My Dad does estate sales ,he asked a guy that was having the sale if he had any guns for sale? He said yea I think I do.The guy said that they was his Dads and he didn't need them.
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checkering, classics, colt, commercial, grooved, lock, m1917, model 1917, victory, winchester, wwi, wwii

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