I don't own a Victory but...

[pace40]

…I seem to have stumbled into a little niche of the befores and afters (or Pre’s and Post’s if you prefer), a couple of which have a pretty interesting history. Enjoy…


First up, Pre-Victory serial number 754717 shipped on March 25, 1941 to the Mershon Company in Glendale, CA. Mershon was a firearms accessories dealer / manufacturer eventually acquired by Pachmayr, but not before a little ruckus between the two regarding some trademark infringement claims.

____________________

"Mershon Co. v. Pachmayr [88 Cal. App. 2d 901]

[Civ. No. 16641. Second Dist., Div. Two. Dec. 1, 1948.]
MERSHON COMPANY, INC. (a Corporation), Appellant, v. FRANK A. PACHMAYR et al., Respondents."

____________________

"220 F.2d 879
105 U.S.P.Q. 4
MERSHON COMPANY, Appellant,
v.
Frank A. PACHMAYR, and Frank A. Pachmayr, doing business
under the fictitious firm name and style of
Pachmayr Gun Works, Appellees.
No. 13334.
United States Court of Appeals, Ninth Circuit.
March 14, 1955.
Rehearing Denied June 15, 1955.

_______________

The gun is a 6 inch blue M&P converted to a fixed sight target model. The conversion exhibits outstanding workmanship.



_______________

Next, Pre-Victory serial number 752684 was one of 36 revolvers “on loan to” Bethlehem Steel at the Baltimore Shipyards as part of the US Navy Civilian Police Corp program.



_______________

Third, Pre-Victory serial number 865935 shipped in a 12 gun group to the US Dept of the Interior on December 4, 1941. This one was modified with a King sight combination and cockeyed hammer. Neat gun.



______________

Next, Pre-victory serial number 927625 shipped on April 9, 1942 to Moltrup Steel Products Corporation in Beaver Falls, PA. This revolver was a US Defense Supply Corporation contract shipment and Moltrup Steel was part of the steel manufacturing war effort at the time. This particular gun obviously wasn't used much.



______________

And lastly, as the war came to an end, and with the S&W factory having a few leftover parts, what collectors now call the post war commercial Victory, was born. This one, serial number SV810841, shipped to Harvan Sporting Goods, New York, NY on March 6, 1946. Note the plugged swivel hole in the frame butt.



Well, I've got it surrounded, but still no Victory.

For those with further interest in the Arms and Agencies of this period, “US Handguns of World War II”, by Charles Pate is a must read.


Thanks for looking and as always...

Relish the Quest !

[gjamison]

very nice, whats the story on that .38 m&p with the
fixed target sight, thats very cool.......

[Goony]

Wonderful presentation. Thank you so much for sharing these with the rest of us. This sort of material is what really makes this forum worthwhile.

A comment on the early post-war commercial Victory conversion. It seems as if these, regardless of serial number, were all shipped in March 1946. It is as if they were hoarded by S&W and then sent out all at once, maybe so that no dealer could claim some other was shown favoritism in their release for sale.

[Walter Rego]

pace40, I have an early post war, S prefix M&P that shipped to Mershon on 6/5/46. I am familiar with the Mershon name and history but have been curious if they sold firearms at retail or possibly acted as a jobber ?

[j38]

Lordy! Those are some interesting and pretty guns. Thanks for the great pictures and post,

Jerry

[opoefc]

Mike, Outstanding group, specially the photo quality. You always raise the bar with your postings. However, having said that, I'm going to be nit picky (no hard feelings, I hope!) about the term of "Pre-Victory" as applied to some of these guns. With the exception of the gun shipped to Moultrup Steel, a DSC gun which was a dull finish before it's King conversion job after WW2, none of these guns are true "Pre-Victory" models, in my opinion. My definition of a pre-Victory is a gun made before the change to the wartime V series, and was made to fill an order by one of the
British Commonwealth countries, and was usually shipped before Feb. or March 1942. Early guns are polished blue and the later guns are the dull wartime finish, Sand Blast blue. They are Model 1905, 4th change guns, without the "V" prefix to their serial numbers.. Guns shipped to US dealers before WW2 are not true pre-Victory models. They are pre-WW2 commercial guns, however a prewar commercial Model 1905, 4th change, shipped for a British commonwealth contract, is a true pre-Victory. The USNCPC gun was, as we know thanks to Charlie Pate's research, a Navy ordered gun for a civilian use that never came to be, but was later supplied to several companies as guard guns before the US entered WW2. Maybe a pre- DSC gun, but not a Pre-Victory. The SV gun was built and shipped after the war was over and is correctly described as a Post War Victory. Regardless, your "niche" collection is a great way to set the hook for you to become a true Victory collector! Again, Congrats on this posting. Ed.

[RKmesa]

Mike:

Great read! Thanks for sharing,

[pace40]

Thanks for looking and the great comments all.

Originally Posted by gjamison

very nice, whats the story on that .38 m&p with the
fixed target sight, thats very cool.......

Don't know much other than it doesn't letter as factory. There was a thread a year or 2 back that discussed this and a few other guns with a similar modification. I'll see if I can find it later.

Originally Posted by Walter Rego

pace40, I have an early post war, S prefix M&P that shipped to Mershon on 6/5/46. I am familiar with the Mershon name and history but have been curious if they sold firearms at retail or possibly acted as a jobber ?

The only reference I have found so far was for accessories. Especially the "white line" recoil pads that were the topic of various lawsuits. There is an add in the Jan 1958 issue of Guns magazine that says "maker of the white line recoil pad by Supreme Court decision". Nothing on retail sales of guns but I'm still looking.

Originally Posted by opoefc

Mike, Outstanding group, specially the photo quality. You always raise the bar with your postings. However, having said that, I'm going to be nit picky (no hard feelings, I hope!) about the term of "Pre-Victory" as applied to some of these guns. With the exception of the gun shipped to Moultrup Steel, a DSC gun which was a dull finish before it's King conversion job after WW2, none of these guns are true "Pre-Victory" models, in my opinion. My definition of a pre-Victory is a gun made before the change to the wartime V series, and was made to fill an order by one of the
British Commonwealth countries, and was usually shipped before Feb. or March 1942. Early guns are polished blue and the later guns are the dull wartime finish, Sand Blast blue. They are Model 1905, 4th change guns, without the "V" prefix to their serial numbers.. Guns shipped to US dealers before WW2 are not true pre-Victory models. They are pre-WW2 commercial guns, however a prewar commercial Model 1905, 4th change, shipped for a British commonwealth contract, is a true pre-Victory. The USNCPC gun was, as we know thanks to Charlie Pate's research, a Navy ordered gun for a civilian use that never came to be, but was later supplied to several companies as guard guns before the US entered WW2. Maybe a pre- DSC gun, but not a Pre-Victory. The SV gun was built and shipped after the war was over and is correctly described as a Post War Victory. Regardless, your "niche" collection is a great way to set the hook for you to become a true Victory collector! Again, Congrats on this posting. Ed.

Ed...you pick away anytime you want to. You've probably forgot more about S&Ws than I've learned yet.

For the purposes of this thread, my loose definition was 1) it has a factory swivel 2) it shipped in 1941 or later and 3) it didn't have a "V".

Think I'll pass on becoming a "true Victory collector" though. Seems like it would be a full time job and I've got enough to do chasing the stuff 80 years earlier.

[Goony]

Originally Posted by opoefc

My definition of a pre-Victory is a gun made before the change to the wartime V series, and was made to fill an order by one of the British Commonwealth countries, and was usually shipped before Feb. or March 1942.

I'm a bit more inclusive regarding what constitutes a pre-Victory, especially if the gun in question can be connected to a war materials contractor.

If a V-prefix revolver that went to DSC is still a Victory, then as far as I'm concerned a revolver of similar specifications procured in 1941 or early 1942 for the same purpose is a legitimate pre-Victory.

[pace40]

Well...I just read through the 1941 factory catalog 3 times and it doesn't list a pre-Victory for sale anywhere so I don't know how anyone bought any of the darn things.

[Goony]

Originally Posted by pace40

Well...I just read through the 1941 factory catalog 3 times and it doesn't list a pre-Victory for sale anywhere so I don't know how anyone bought any of the darn things.

I doubt the 1946 catalog listed a post-war Victory, either.

[opoefc]

Mike, I agree. S&W catalogs leave us scratching our collective heads sometimes. For example, none of the flyers, ads and brochures, circa 19th century era, list any "Pre-Double Actions." Ed.