I am considering a purchase of a S&W Victory model 4-inch revolver. It is marked above the grip: Converted byt Cogswell & Harrison, London. The finish is blued, not parkerized and the grips are the older checkered wood with a circular tab at the top. The serial is V 369905.

The owner states it was originally chambered in 38 S&W and converted to 38 special?

As this would be my first Victory, and I intend to shoot it, my questions are:
1. Is it worth $400 in exc mechanical/75% finish?
2. is it collectable or just a shooter?
3. Is it safe to shoot modern non +P 38 special ammo in it?

I have heard of Victory models being altered from 38 special to 38S&W, but not from S&W to Special...what's the deal with the conversion?

Any links to get more info about these conversions?

These are not regarded as good shooters. The 28/200 was bigger in diameter than the 38 spl. This causes bulged cases and other problems as well as reduced accuracy.

There are several threads on this in the forum, Google search should give some results.

For price, $400 is way high, it not collectable with being converted and stamped, its not a good shooter.

I would look for some thing else, if you just want a 38 spl shooter Buds has some new M10 for $269.

I hope this works

a quick search

S-W Forum - Search Results

1. No.
2. Neither.
3. Not likely to blow up in your hand, but quite likely to bulge/split cases.

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Pisgah

I agree with all of the above. This is a gun to stay away from.

Mike Priwer

Tom, I share the concerns expressed by others.

If you want a K-frame .38 Special with a short barrel, you should keep an eye out for a postwar (say 1946-1960) .38 Military & Police with a two-inch barrel; many were manufactured in that configuration, and you should be able to find one in decent shape for $450 or so. S&W says that +P ammo should not be fired in revolvers without a model number, which would restrict use of that ammunition to guns made in 1957 or later. As a practical matter, there is no distinction between the post 1957 M&Ps and the same guns without a model number that were manufactured from 1948 on. So I'd feel safe shooting +P in a 1950 M&P for example.

Sorry to rain on your enthusiasm, but the gun you were considering really is a kind of bad deal -- not special, possibly dangerous, and WAY overpriced.

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David Wilson

"I have heard of Victory models being altered from 38 special to 38 S&W, but not from S&W to Special...what's the deal with the conversion?"

I've never heard of going from .38 special to .38 S&W, unless it was to be used by British Commonwealth nations.

Many of the Victory and pre Victory .38 S&W chambered revolvers were re-imported into the US following WW II. Since .38 S&W was not a popular caliber in the US, a lot of these revolvers were rechambered to .38 special. Many also had their barrels cut down, to make them into "snubnoses", with added ramp front sights. The worst conversions had the front locking lug removed.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Sometimes the Specials work OK in these converted (nee butchered) guns but often they do not. You can still shoot 38 S&Ws in it and if you reload this is fine. If you must buy ammo the 38 S&W is a bad choice as it's pricey.

IMO it's a $200 gun. In reality I wouldn't buy it at all.

I have a similar gun except it is a M & P 1905 4th changeprior to the Victory Model, with the British Proofmarks from civilian ownership at some time. I understand the 38/200 (38s&w) was made for the Brits. The later conversion was done by drilling (?) out the cylinder and then sleeving it to make the smaller 38 Special diameter. Mine is altered that way.
Do you know how they know it was a Cogswell & Harrison conversion? Are there any special markings? That is something I have not been able to find out.

I cannot comment on the asking price ,however, Cogswell & Harrison were a quality outfit I can not see them putting their name on a poor quality product.

They are not as well known as Purdy etc to warrant fakeing the stamp.

I would have the chambers and barrel examined by someone knowlegeable and then make an offer.

It may not be "collectible" but for me the C&H name makes it interesting.

NB

I have one that is not marked by C&G it shoots just ok. The cases do expand to the original chamber the result is a slightly bottle necked 38 spl case. I have fired about 200 and have yet to get a split case but others have had them in their converted guns. I gave a friend some money because he needed it and he gave me the gun and would not take no for an answer but I would not have bought it otherwise.

I have never seen one drilled and sleeved. They are always just reamed for the longer Special and it is too loose in the .360" chamber of the 38 S&W.

S&W never turned 38 specials into 38S&W. Victory models were chambered for 38S&W when they were made for sale under the Lend Lease Act to England before we got involved in WWII. Early models were blue until production speed was more important than finish. These models also lack the transfer bar safety which means that if you drop the loaded gun on the hammer you could have an accidental discharge. I once saw a gunsmith play around and replace the barrel and cylinder so the gun could safely fire 38 special. It is cheaper just to get another gun.

I looked this gun over very thouroughly ( I thought) and couldn't see anything unusual and the barrel was marked 38 S & W but you can't chamber that round. The 38 Special fits fine and shoots fine with no case bulge. One day in good light, even dispite these old eyes I could see the sleeves in the cylinder. Can't be too bad the lady I got it from said her father shot Marine matches with it. Certainly not a great collector but it still functions well as a shooter.

I've got one with a 3.5" barrel. Paid $100 dollars for it. As already said, it will bulge .38 Special brass. after much searching, I found a similarly aged 38 special cylinder and fitted to the gun. It is now a good shooter.

For $400, you can find a really nice M&P or Model 10 that was made to fire .38 Special without bulging brass. I would run, not walk away from that deal.

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My sgntr is mor thn 30 chrctrs

If you can't chamber a 38 S&W round,a nd the revolver shoots 38 Specials without bulging the cases, most probably someone (possibly Cogswell & Harrison) replaced the 38 S&W cylinder with a 38 Special cylinder.

I say this once having owned what started out as a 5 inch barrel, 38 S&W Victory (factory letter). When I got it, it had a 6 inch barrel, marked 38 Special, and a 38 Special cylinder. Barrel and cylinder were numbered to match the frame, but the font was different. It wasn't a C&H, unfortunately, or I'd still have it. It was still park'd.

Cyrano,
That may not be true.
I've tried loading a new Remington factory 38 S&W cartridge in all of the 38 special/357 S&W revolvers in my collection. It fit easily in all chambers except one, which was a snug fit. That's 30 chambers.
Never shot 38 specials out of a bored out 38 S&W but from reading accounts, I've no doubt that split or bulged cases would be the norm.
I've seen a couple of very nice looking C&H rebuilds for sale, but I agree that $400 is way to much. For that price I would rather have an original lend lease gun.
John

From your description your gun in question has had the chambers reamed out and lined with correctly sized sleeves. A far more expensive way, but much more satisfactory way to convert to 38 Special. It should be safe to fire, but the value would still be low, maybe in the $200 range if everything else is good.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

A slight chance that the gun might actually be a .22 now.Those C&H conversions have a bit of appeal.Otherwise,I would pass.

Hey, I bought one just like you're describing for $250. Except, the finish on mine is more like 50%. Anyway, I put a Hogue grip on it and it shoots like a champ. No issues with brass etc. I'm shooting the low recoil .38 special ammo. It's worth every penny I paid for it! I just wish I could say the same about the price of the ammo!

No one said they weren't utilitarian. It may well be better made than something newer from Brazil. They just have no collectible value. If you know what you bought and believe it is worth what you paid for it, then it is.

Somebody asked about C&H marking. Here's one on a pre-Victory 38.

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[QUOTE=clang444;136081913]I've got one with a 3.5" barrel. Paid $100 dollars for it. As already said, it will bulge .38 Special brass. after much searching, I found a similarly aged 38 special cylinder and fitted to the gun. It is now a good shooter.

Hey - I've got a 3 1/2 " bbl, too. Where did THEY come from? Your post was the only mention I've seen. Actually, I measured 3 9/16", but call it 3 1/2". (38 S&W Pre-V C&H conversion)

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