Inherited 1915 38cal and holster/belt.

[Rhok]

I inherited a nice 1915? S&W 38 target pistol with all original parts, 6 inch barrel, so I thought I should join this forum and learn from you all and I sure am. The gun belonged to my rancher great grandpa and grandpa then passed to my dad and now to me. I did my research online and from library books but have gone as far as I can The front sight is different, slightly angled back at front and curving up to flat top, no bead. Serial number is 241xxx. I said I will post pictures when I figure out how to do it. My pics were way too many KB. So, I went to Photobucket after good advice from you forum guys but couldn't figure out how to transfer to S&W site so I used Picassa and hopefully these pictures come up. Thanks. This was originally posted 9/9, been on vacation.
The gun has been kept in a leather western holster, the kind that flips over the included 4 inch belt and barrel part tucks into a loop. The belt has two rows of loops for the 38 cal. bullets and is made by folding an 8 inch thick leather band in half lengthwise after stiching the loops. a belt and buckel is also attached. It was made in 1916 by Harry Ettinger of Dillon, Montana. My question is.... should I restore the stitching and alter the length of the cinching belt to fit my waist? The yellow? cotton thread is rotting out. Would that change the value/authenticity? A picture is worth a thousand words here.

[JSR III]

Welcome to the forum. Not an expert on leather but I would have to guess that any alterations to the rig would negatively affective value to a holster collector. I do know that anything done to the revolver will affect its value.

Perhaps if you could send it to one of the holster makers or saddle shops that are in your area, they could do the work professionally and still maintain its value. Since its a family heirloom, altering it to your specifications and keeping it won't hurt anything because you are not selling it.

[lowhog]

Hi,that is a nice setup you have there.I have been into body builder for the past 7 years.At the age of 56 I have a 50 inch chest and a 32 inch waist.What I'm saying is your never to old to be in shape.If your waist is oversize then I recommend you loose some weight before you alter the rig belt.It is a health risk for any man with a waist line larger than 35".And thats measuring with a sewing tape one inch above the belly button and not a pants size.There are many men out there in a 34 or 36 pant size with a 50 inch or larger belly.

[bananaman]

Rhok, I like it! I have a 1905 4th. change, that was shipped in 1919. It is a fixed sight gun. Don't be afraid to shoot yours if it is in good mechanical condition. Not made for + P ammo though! The leather is neat, regardless of it's flaws. Welcome to the Forum! Bob

[beagleye]

I am pretty sure the gun should not be stored in the holster, just cause there might be salts or other corrosive elements in that leather. Maybe you already knew that, just double checking.

That is a beautiful combo!

[Muley Gil]

Nice combo. The holster is a single Mexican loop, basketweave stamped.

[murphydog]

The serial number puts it right at the end of the .38 Military & Police 3rd change era in 1915, which also fits with the type of wood stocks (gold medallions). The target sights are unusual, best estimate is about 10% of production had these.

Agree that it needs to be stored in another place, like a breathable gun case of some type, and I would preserve but not alter the leather gear. Hope this is helpful.

[ordnanceguy]

Originally Posted by Rhok

My question is.... should I restore the stitching and alter the length of the cinching belt to fit my waist? The yellow? cotton thread is rotting out. Would that change the value/authenticity?

R:

My strong recommendation is that you do NOT make any changes to the belt and holster rig. That would indeed change the value/authenticity, and in a very negative way. Repeat....Do NOT restitch or otherwise alter the rig. If you want a holster or complete rig to use for your very nice revolver, get a new one made (El Paso Saddlery, Bell Charter Oak and others are available to make one to your personal specifications). Anything that changes the rig is tantamount to shortening the barrel and reblueing your revolver: it would wreck its collectible value.

The rig is now almost 100 years old. It is an historical item. Save it for posterity and resist the urge to "restore" or otherwise change it.

[cuad2001]

Originally Posted by ordnanceguy

R:

My strong recommendation is that you do NOT make any changes to the belt and holster rig. That would indeed change the value/authenticity, and in a very negative way. Repeat....Do NOT restitch or otherwise alter the rig. If you want a holster or complete rig to use for your very nice revolver, get a new one made (El Paso Saddlery, Bell Charter Oak and others are available to make one to your personal specifications). Anything that changes the rig is tantamount to shortening the barrel and reblueing your revolver: it would wreck its collectible value.

The rig is now almost 100 years old. It is an historical item. Save it for posterity and resist the urge to "restore" or otherwise change it.

+1 on what he said.
That is a beautiful revolver. What an heirloom!

[Rhok]

Thanks for the good vibes. I think I will clean up the belt, get a new holster and build a display for the old holster. Gun shoots well but every once in a while trigger fails to advance cylinder and I have to pull hammer back to advance. I have not had the stocks or the side plate off yet so don't know about cleanliness under there. The screws look like they have never been touched. Do I need special tools or just a careful blade of correct size? What would cause cylinder to fail to advance?

[handejector]

Good for you!

NICE outfit.
Is that a 6-1/2 inch?

On the leather-
I'm not sure that restitching BY HAND by a master leather maker/restorer has a negative effect. There is a guy in Alabama that can restitch in such a way that you can't even tell it.
John Witty will be along to comment, hopefully.

That front sight is a very common one for the era. It is a "Thin Round Top Blade". It is often seen on Triple Lock Targets and 38 Targets up into the 20's. It was still offered in the 1925 catalog as seen below. Most Targets of the early 1900's have it or the Paine bead.

[Bell Charter Oak Holsters]

I realize I'm coming in on this thread a bit late. First let me say welcome to the forum. Secondly, I would like to comment on your revolver, gun belt and holster.

I agree with Charlie (ordnanceguy) completely. I would not make any alteration to the belt or holster. Any western memorabilia collector would be quite delighted to have such an object with that provenance. Although I am often asked to restore or repair such objects, and sometimes do, my first advice is to leave it alone. Having an expert evaluate the leather condition would be paramount to any decision concerning restoration of the rotted stitching, so commonly experienced with 19th. century holsters, belts, saddles and similar objects. Cotton thread generally, does not suffer well with hard use and exposure to weather over significant time. It is one reason why, when superb condition artifacts are discovered, they yield a premium. Avoid using harsh household cleaners and any oils or leather treatments hoping to restore the leather. When you remove the original patina, your removing it's character. British Museum Wax, used by museum restorers is the only preparation that may be helpful to stabilize the surface "crazing" (cracking) without causing harm over the long run. The holster is very fine, the gun belt though not matching, tells me your ancestor was more interested in practicality than impressing someone. It appears to be a fold over design, similar to, if not in fact, a money belt. I can't tell from the image you posted. Though not atypical, the gun belt is an important part of the entire package. It's utilitarian in some respects, for that period and was definitely meant to be useful. I have seen several images of that type of belt, worn by southwestern gun hands of one description or another. The revolver should not be stored in the holster, as someone mentioned previously.

As for your revolver....magnificent. If you are capable and have the correct gunsmith screwdriver (Like Brownells) you certainly could remover the sideplate and see if cleaning up the action corrects the problem. However, I suggest you take it to a well qualified gunsmith for repair and perhaps a tune up. Make no alterations. Dave Chicoine is one of the best, if not the very best.

My congratulations to you. I'm sure you will cherish it as a memento of your ancestor.

Cheers;
Lefty