I see that with regard to .38 spcl +p ammo most people say that it can safely be used in any S&W .38 with a model#. So my question is what's the difference between a k-38 produced on one day and a Model 15 produced the next that would preclude the use of +P ammo? Or is this just an arbitrary line drawn for convenience?

It's an arbitrary line. Model marked guns are considered to be more modern and have newer metallurgy and heat treatment. However, as you mentioned, that doesn't mean that a Model 10 produced in 1957 can shoot +P willy-nilly without increased wear and tear.

When did S&W update to the most modern metallurgy on the Model 10, or any gun? I dunno. Someone does, but I don't, so I shoot standard pressure in my older guns and +P in +P marked guns.

I have a question, why would one want/need to shoot +P ammunition???

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James Redfield
LM #497

For self defense use - more velocity, more penetration, increased opportunity for bullet expansion;i.e. better stopping power.

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Dick

I use 1930. It is known that before the late 1920s metal tempering was much less precise than now. Titanic sank because the hull plates were improperly tempered in 1912 and fractured under impact with the ice.

Yup, for self defense use. The 38 Special has remained an immensely popular choice for self-defense partly because manufacturers have been able to make an old cartridge "new again" with better loadings in +P. The same can be said for 9mm, which is now available in some highly effective loadings that defy many of the "stopping power" criticisms.

JSR III, I think it is strictly a marketing ploy. More out of a .38 is a .357. Our society is ate up with the notion that more is better. Do we really need a computer with a 60 GB hard drive to work a car? Do we need a telephone to watch a 2" square movie or pull up the internet. Nope. One good EMP from a terrorist nuke or a natural solar blast and all of that stuff is worthless junk.
Don't get me wrong I'm not against technology we have some wonderful stuff out there, but a time and place for everything. +p??? IMHO
Larry

My feelings exactly. If +P is really that important when facing an intruder at 7 paces, then why not just upgrade your .38 to a .357 magnum or switch your lead round noses for hollow points???

Actually, there is a school of thought that says that faced with a midnight intrusion by persons unknown with no glassses on and sleepers in your eyes, that a slug barrel 12 guage is more effective.

and there is nothing like hearing that old "chunk chunk" of the pump action being worked in the dark...

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James Redfield
LM #497

Remember also, that "+P" ammo is not exactly earth shatteringly hot. It is still lower pressure than virtually every other caliber ever produced...

I am of the opinion that today's +P 38 Special ammo is about the equivalent of what standard 38 Special was 20 or 30 years ago. I would recommend anyone owning a post-WWII K-frame carry and use 38 Special +P as a matter of course, unless you just can't handle the recoil. For folks with arthritis or other disabilities, or ladies with little upper body strength I recommend practice and carry of full factory wadcutters.

YMMV,
Dave

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RSVN '69-'71
PCSD (Ret)

All of the discussion regarding +P generally leaves out one fact: this ammo is loaded 3,000 PSI below maximum allowable chamber pressure. It is NOT a hot load. It is not even a warm load. It's a 125 at 925 FPS (4" barrel), for crying out load. That's barely a decent target load, IMO.

I have shot a lot of +P in a variety of guns and usually the ammo is so mild that the cases don't even expand and seal the chambers. The cases come out covered with soot and that's a sure sign of LOW pressure. Most times simply elevating the barrel causes the fired cases to fall from the cylinder. How is this ammo considered hot?

I already tested a 1942 M&P with substantial amounts of +P and +P+ with no effect. Another member fired a bunch of +P through an alloy M12. Now we need someone to step up and volunteer an 1899 Model and shoot 500 rounds of +P through it. My prediction is zero effect. The 38 Special was designed to work at 21,000 PSI. The +P runs 18,000 or so.