Question on the 38/44

[Mrnurse]

I Dont know much about them...are they based on a 44 Cal N frame Design? If so, one could assume it can take any 38 SPL Cal Powered ammo ( +P). When did they first produce the 38/44?. Love the fixed sights...like a Big Mdl 10, I NEVER use adj sights for my shooting needs. Thanks in advance.

[Wiregrassguy]

Yes, the .38/44 was originally a 3rd model N frame except chambered for .38 Special High Velocity cartridges. You could say the cartridge was a +P+ in its day. Not quite magnum but closer than .38 Special. It was developed around 1930 as a police gun used to penetrate the steel car bodies of the day. You can read more about it at https://38-44heavyduty.com.

[Hondo44]

Many have been reamed slightly to lengthen the chambers for .357 Mag and I've never heard of any ill effects. The cyls are heat treated. Of course that will negate any collector value.

[Art Doc]

As I recall, the story goes that in the late 1920s the phenomenon of the "Motor Bandits" sprang up. Armed robbers who would swoop in driving cars and make a fast getaway in the automobile. Often there would be running gunfights between cops and crooks careening down the road shooting at each other. Cars were made of thicker steel back then and the standard 38 and 44 revolvers of the day couldn't penetrate the car bodies. Cops asked for handguns that had more penetration.

Colt responded in 1929 with the 38 Super. They took the 1911 platform in the old 38 ACP and jacked it up from 1050 fps to 1300 with a pointed, fmj 130 grain bullet. S&W's answer was the 38/44 in 1930. This used a 158 lead slug at 1140 fops. The "Heavy Duty" was simply the 1926 Third Model 44 Hand Ejector made in 38 Special. The name reflects the 38 caliber built on a 44 frame.

Of course the introduction of the 357 Magnum in 1935 rendered the 38/44 obsolete. In 1955 the appearance of the K frame Combat Magnum totally killed the HD sales. Mine sat around the factory for 4 years before they finally shipped it to a police supply shop where it was likely sold at a discount to get it out of inventory.

The 38/44s were used by many police. I suspect mine was carried by a cop and I used to have a 4" HD that shipped to the Ft. Smith, AR PD.

[DWalt]

Originally Posted by Mrnurse

I Dont know much about them...are they based on a 44 Cal N frame Design? If so, one could assume it can take any 38 SPL Cal Powered ammo ( +P).

And then some. The .38-44 cartridge (under several names) is simply an overloaded .38 Special which had factory ballistics of a MV around 1100 ft/sec, depending upon barrel length, as compared to around 800 ft/sec with the typical .38 Special. It hasn't been factory loaded since the 1970s by the big boys, but is still available from Buffalo Bore and Underwood. Or it can be easily duplicated by handloading. 2400 propellant seems to be the best choice, usually in the 11-12 grain range using a 158 grain bullet.

[Mrnurse]

Thanks to all. Learning a little daily.

[Hondo44]

The 38-44 Ammo I have is full metal jacket like one of those above.

And as I recall law enforcement wanted something that would penetrate the engine block, not just the sheet metal.

[Kinman]

Originally Posted by Hondo44

The 38-44 Ammo I have is full metal jacket like of those above.

And as I recall law enforcement wanted something that would penetrate the engine block, not just the sheet metal.

As a kid learning to drive in Utah, urban legend had it thats why the Utah State Patrol carried .357 Magnums. Supposedly they carried armor piercing ammo for just such a situation, pull up alongside the perp who would not pull over and take out the engine block. No facts just urban legend that makes sense. I only had one friend that tried to outrun the State, he managed to pull away but ran out of gas before reaching Nevada...where the cops were waiting for him.

[DWalt]

Originally Posted by Kinman

As a kid learning to drive in Utah, urban legend had it thats why the Utah State Patrol carried .357 Magnums. Supposedly they carried armor piercing ammo for just such a situation, pull up alongside the perp who would not pull over and take out the engine block. No facts just urban legend that makes sense. I only had one friend that tried to outrun the State, he managed to pull away but ran out of gas before reaching Nevada...where the cops were waiting for him.

Once upon a time, some cops did carry metal penetrating handgun ammo (available in several calibers) but it wasn't armor piercing, or even close. There were two basic MP bullet designs. Winchester (and Western) MP bullets were not much different from ordinary FMJ bullets except they had a conical nose, and the jacket in the nose section was very thick, the better to penetrate auto glass and body metal without expanding or breaking up. Penetrating engine blocks was not part of their purpose. But no doubt that an engine might well be fatally damaged by a hit in the right location. The Remington MP bullet version used a lightweight die-casting Zinc alloy bullet (that alloy was called Zamak), driven at high velocity, but it was intended for the same purpose - penetrating auto bodies and glass while hanging together. Later on, in the late 1960s, there was another player in the LE penetrating bullet game called KTW. There were two KTW bullet styles (that I know of). One used a jacketed bullet with a tungsten carbide core, the other used a solid bronze (or brass) alloy bullet. Some were coated with a green Teflon coating, which was more for cosmetic effect than serving any ballistic purpose. They quickly became called "Cop Killer Bulets" despite the fact that there is no known instance of any cops being killed with them. They didn't stay on the market long.

[StrawHat]

I find it interesting that rather than introducing a new cartridge, both Colt a d S&W merely upgraded existing cartridges with few problems.

Kevin

[Hondo44]

Originally Posted by Kinman

I only had one friend that tried to outrun the State, he managed to pull away but ran out of gas before reaching Nevada...where the cops were waiting for him.

Sounds like that old movie: "Vanishing Point". I think he was driving a Hemi 'Cuda.

[Hondo44]

Originally Posted by DWalt

Some were coated with a green Teflon coating, which was more for cosmetic effect than serving any ballistic purpose.

Not cosmetic, the purpose was color coding for quick identification. Like the different military bullet colors for tracers and metal piercing.