38 S&W Special CTG- Age?

djcrackshot · #1 11-04-2011, 01:58 PM

I was wondering if someone might be able to tell me the age and aprox. worth of my my 38 S & W Special CTG (Written on right side of barrel)(SMITH & WESSON on other side of barrel )serial number 79352 pearl handled gun. A Friend loaned it to my girlfriend for home protection but I told her it might be worth something so why not trade it for something newer. I could be wrong but I don't think there are a lot of these that they made with pearl handles. I have yet to see one on the net.

PALADIN85020 · #2 11-04-2011, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djcrackshot

I was wondering if someone might be able to tell me the age and aprox. worth of my my 38 S & W Special CTG (Written on right side of barrel)(SMITH & WESSON on other side of barrel )serial number 79352 pearl handled gun. A Friend loaned it to my girlfriend for home protection but I told her it might be worth something so why not trade it for something newer. I could be wrong but I don't think there are a lot of these that they made with pearl handles. I have yet to see one on the net.

By the serial number, probably around 1907. Only a factory letter will tell you for sure, though. The later ones, during the WWII period, had an improved hammer block - yours does not have it, and you should take care not to drop the loaded gun - if it falls on the hammer, it could go boom. Best to keep it loaded, if you wish, with 5 rounds - an empty chamber under the hammer. The pearl stocks could be aftermarket items, since they do not have the S&W logo inserts.

Hope this helps.

John

handejector · #3 11-04-2011, 02:39 PM

06 or 07 would be about right.

You have a Model 1905 (to most of us).

Pearl is not really rare in that period. It was quite popular. Those grips are probably aftermarket, not factory. Most factory pearl and ivory had medallions in that period, even though the wood grips did not usually have them.

It might not be a bad idea to trade for a more modern gun, but you probably won't be able to get an even trade because it is not super rare and condition is everything for the standard M&P's.
Curious- how can you trade a gun that is "loaned"?

DCWilson · #4 11-04-2011, 04:39 PM

Welcome to the forum.

Dissenting opinion on age here. Please look at the flat underside of the barrel and tell us what number you see stamped there. Is that the same number you see on the butt of the gun and on the rear face of the cylinder? Ignore any numbers you see on the frame that when you swing the cylinder open.

The shape of the ejector rod knob points to 1930s manufacture. Pearl handles were never standard on S&W revolvers, but they were almost always an available option. Because of their shape (dished upper end) these could be early 20th century design. They could also be aftermarket additions rather than something S&W sold. That's hard to say, but some guys here know the ins and outs of these better than I do.

Depending on the quality of the pearls, they might be worth a couple of hundred by themselves, or they might be imitation and worth much less. That model of gun was manufactured in the millions, so there is no scarcity premium. With standard stocks it might be a $250-300 shooter. So maybe $400-450 for this package? Listen to other estimates too.

djcrackshot · #5 11-05-2011, 02:27 AM

I really do appreciate everyone's feedback. To answer a few questions posed, I was referring to my conversation with the loaner as to why she does not trade it herself for something newer and am doing this research for her hoping she will, and let my girlfriend use the newer gun that would hopefully be more suited for purse carry as well as home protection. now as far as the numbers go they are identical on the butt as well as the flat underside of the barrel and now that you bring my attention to it yes there is also the same number on the rear face of the cylinder. however there is a diamond at the end of the number there on the underside, and a star at the end of the number on the butt. Also on top of the barrel it reads "Springfield Mass USA Smith and Wesson Minted Feb. 6 06 Sept. 14 09 Dec. 29 14. That is it for markings other then the trade mark symbol you can see in the close up photo. So yes three matching serial numbers at all points mentioned.

handejector · #6 11-05-2011, 09:00 AM

That explains a lot.
David made a good observation on the smaller ejector knob- it is too early for that gun.
The diamond on the barrel indicates a replaced part-the barrel (and ejector rod). The 14 patent date does too!
The star probably means a refinish.
So, it has a lot of rework, and therefore very little collector value.
In my experience, the aftermarket pearls are worth around 100.

djcrackshot · #7 11-05-2011, 11:53 AM

Lee, one question though if the diamond means a replaced part would that part have the exact same serial number as the rest of the gun? I got the cylinder, barrel, and butt of the grip showing all the same serial number. Keep in mind that I am a noob so that may be a very stupid question. However from what I have seen from collector shows on T.V. when they find different serial numbers on different parts that they would usually say that the gun had been put together with replacement parts. Is this not the whole truth? And another thing, I understood that it was not until the 50's that S&W even started putting serial numbers on their guns and simply referred to them by model number. So how could my gun be from 1907? or was that what it is commonly referred to like the other guy said "we refer to that gun as a 1905". Anyway, think you for all you expert opinions. I truly do love guns and it is great to learn as much as I can about the subject.

handejector · #8 11-05-2011, 01:20 PM

Every S&W ever made had a serial number.
MODEL numbers began in 57.

When S&W replaced a serial numbered part, they put the serial number on it. Barrels were fitted to guns, then removed for bluing. It had to have the number to get back to the right gun.

djcrackshot · #9 11-19-2011, 12:30 PM

Interesting, so the only way you can tell if a S&W is all original would be the absence of the diamond by the serial number? Is this true in all makers, others besides S&W? Or do they use a variety of symbols to express that the part has been replaced? Also since my pearls do not have the S&W logo on them does that mean they are an aftermarket ad on. Just not made by Smith & Wessson? and if so do they have any value as such?

Muley Gil · #10 11-19-2011, 12:59 PM

The diamond and star marking indicate that S&W worked on the revolver. A private gunsmith usually didn't mark the guns he worked on.

"In my experience, the aftermarket pearls are worth around 100."

Here's your answer, posted by handejector, about the pearls. He is not only the owner of this forum, but a very experienced and respected dealer as well.

moms38ctg · #11 02-16-2012, 01:01 AM

I have a S&W 38 special ctg, serial # 583657, 3" barrel, fixed site, 68552 inside when cylider open, six shot, pat feb 6 06,sept 14 09,dec20 14. Can anyone tell me the age and value?

Dpris · #12 02-16-2012, 01:29 AM

For both of you, you don't have a .38 Special CTG.
You have revolvers marked with that caliber on the barrels.
You'll get more respect in discussing your Smiths if you don't refer to the caliber as the model.
Denis

DCWilson · #13 02-16-2012, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dpris

For both of you, you don't have a .38 Special CTG.
You have revolvers marked with that caliber on the barrels.
You'll get more respect in discussing your Smiths if you don't refer to the caliber as the model.
Denis

And how is a first-time poster to this forum supposed to know that before we have communicated to him the information he asked for?

Give the new guys a break. Bust their chops the second or third time they make the mistake. Everybody here was a first-time poster, and in my eyes everyone gets respect for recognizing their lack of knowledge and seeking to do something about it.

Dpris · #14 02-16-2012, 04:21 AM

Merely informing, not busting.
And the I Have A CTG is getting quite old.
Denis

glowe · #15 02-16-2012, 10:21 AM

For djcrackshot - you might be interested to learn when the revolver was returned to the factory. Remove the grips and on the frame flats under the grips should be a set of three numbers, something like 4 47. This gives you the month and year of service.

For moms38ctg - Welcome to the Forum. You have arrived at the best forum on the net. This is the definitive place to find out everything you want to know about S&W, plus a few things you don't want to know. Be warned that this site is habit forming and may cost you a great deal of money over the years in the collecting of classic S&Ws.

Another 38 M&P, 3rd Model (1905) with serial number 582xxx was shipped February, 1928, but the factory did not ship guns in order, so I would say 1927-1930 range. You can obtain a detailed history on the model and specifics about your revolver from our Historian, Roy Jinks. Value is dependent on originality and condition, so range is wide, maybe from $200 to $1000.

Jack Flash · #16 02-16-2012, 04:34 PM

A couple of things you may want to be careful about --

1.
Pearl grips (aka by S&W as "stocks") are notoriously fragile. Of course, they can be damaged if not carefully removed too, so make sure you know what you're doing. I think there is a "sticky" that talks about removing stocks. If you are going to shoot it much, you may want to get some inexpensive rubber grips. If you ask nicely, somebody here can probably send you a set gratis.

2.
"Loaning" a gun may have legal ramifications. I know it does in my state. Your GF may be better off all the way around to just go out and buy something that suits her needs.

keithpip · #17 02-16-2012, 05:53 PM

I second the motion to give newcomers a break, especially when they come here seeking help.

Keith

Dpris · #18 02-17-2012, 03:13 AM

By ignoring the error & letting them go on perpetuating it in ignorance every time they discuss the gun?
Nobody called anybody any names, both posters were informed of their error & now know how to talk about their guns in a way that doesn't confuse themselves or others.
Denis

emt14320 · #19 01-11-2013, 02:23 PM

Guy trying to get me to buy it says it's really old (1920-30s). So, based on what I've been reading, I needed to know that all serial numbers matched (which they do), that the grips are/arenot stock - I don't think they are but then again, I'm totally new to this. Now, I just need to determine if the gun could be anywhere near as old as he thinks and whether or not the price he's asking is reasonable.

Markings are
38 S&W Special CTG on right side of barrel,
the S&W springfield mass blah blah, with 2nd line saying patentedfeb.6.06.sept.14.09.dec0(with a line thru it)9.14

Serial is 494414 and the number when i open the round chamber is 43249 and is on both the moving part and the non-moving part.

JP@AK · #20 01-11-2013, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emt14320

Now, I just need to determine if the gun could be anywhere near as old as he thinks and whether or not the price he's asking is reasonable.

Serial is 494414 and the number when i open the round chamber is 43249 and is on both the moving part and the non-moving part.

Hello and welcome to the Forum.

You have a .38 Military & Police revolver Model of 1905 with the fourth engineering changes. It probably shipped in the mid-1920s, maybe 1925. I have one a few numbers higher that shipped in February, 1926.

The stocks are definitely not original. They appear to be plastic (maybe Franzite?). The originals would have been checkered walnut with no medallion in the stock circle.

The numbers on the yoke and in the yoke cutout are assembly numbers used during the soft-fitting process before finish and serial number were applied. They have no meaning now.

The gun looks a little bit on the rough side. I think I see pitting on the cylinder and lots of the finish is gone. This is a shooter grade revolver and a reasonable price would be around $275-$300, give or take a little. At least that would be about right in my neck of the woods. In areas where these are more plentiful, it might go for less.

I hope you find this information helpful.

Jack

JP@AK · #21 01-11-2013, 03:12 PM

EMT14320
Here's what the original stocks on the gun you are looking at would have looked like.
Jack

emt14320 · #22 01-11-2013, 06:11 PM

wow. the one in your pic is much prettier. For my learning - pitting - would that the the little line that appears on my cylinder looking like it has rotated quite a bit (i.e. shot a lot) or just the fact that the metal looks scratchy?
Thanks for the info. At least I know he's being truthful and that is the price range he's asking.

Texas Star · #23 01-11-2013, 06:37 PM

Terri-

The cylinder rotation line is called just that. (Sometimes called a "turn line.") It comes from the cylinder bolt dragging on the cylinder as it rotates, and I don't think I've ever seen a revolver that didn't have it if used much, although a well-timed cylinder system will show less evidence of it.

The cylinder (NOT the chamber) is the big round thing that holds the CTGS.

((Cartridges) This cylinder contains six chambers, which hold the ammunition. (An autoloading/automatic pistol has just one chamber, which is part of the barrel.)

Pitting is the tiny rusty holes left in steel when rusting is allowed to progress to that point. Yes, it looks like rough spots. If it isn't very deep, a complete professional refinish job may be able to remove it, or an engraver can sometimes incorporate patterns in the engraving to delete it. Neither refinishing or engraving is cheap, if well done.

This gun is not in good enough condition to interest a collector, as so many were made. I believe that it is the most common of all high quality revolvers ever produced. As a shooter, it is too old to use with high velocity cartridges, called Plus P. And blued steel rusts if not given frequent cleaning and oiling, as you can see.

I'd put your money into a more modern stainless steel version of this gun, called Model 64, introduced about 1970 and made into the 1990's without the objectionable lock feature of later guns. It is acceptable for Plus P use when you want the added power, which is still not a lot, as compared to the .357 Magnum. But recoil and muzzle blast with the .38 are less, and many women prefer not to have to learn to handle the .357.

Unless an older M&P .38 like this one is in exceptional condition, it will not interest collectors and the only reason for anyone else to buy such a gun is a nostalgic interest in the period when they were made, or because the price is especially low. Even in the latter case, I'd save up and buy a newer gun.

Personally, I'd never buy a gun with any pitting. It shows that poor care was taken of it, and that may extend to the internal mechanism. And rust and pitting look awful, and are hard to stop, once begun. Think of pitting as bad acne as applied to firearms.

Buford57 · #24 01-11-2013, 06:38 PM

Terri, welcome to the forum. "Pitting" refers to the little potholes rust leaves on metal. What you see on the cylinder is very reasonably called a "turn line".

You have one of the most common S&Ws made, but they were very reliable firearms and were a very common police duty weapon from the turn of the 20th century to the 1970s (and beyond). Age doesn't add much (if anything) to the value when it has wear and tear to match its age.

emt14320 · #25 01-12-2013, 01:00 PM

I appreciate all the feedback and explanations. You guys are great!

Some of my history: raised by a reserve police officer who only ever owned one gun - a .357. In fact, that is the one he sleeps with now. I shot a fair amount when I was younger - he thought I needed to know how to protect myself. Sister carries a Glock .40 as she still lives in atlanta. I've owned a 9mm (norinco - yes, but it was cheap at the time I needed one) for about 20 years, but it's not been out of the case much - I only carried it when I was traveling by car back and forth to Atlanta. As an EMT (volunteer), I kept knives and pepper spray on me for calls in the bad sections since carrying a gun was prohibited. However, I'm a consultant, and one of my recent assignments was in Huntsville, AL. Got bored at lunch and went to a gun shop (Larry's) with one of the guys who had never shot before but suddenly decided he wanted a gun. For some reason, he thought I'd know what to do there, lol. (I ride a harley and therefore the stereotype must apply, haha). I shot almost everything they had to rent there by the time my assignment was over. Now, got the fever and looking for a CZ 75 9mm and a .38 spl as that was the pistol and revolver that I liked/matched best. However, once word got out I was looking for a gun, everyone and their brother has one to sell me (but none are the cz

). I live in a rural area and should I need police, response time can be 30 min or more. Bought a Walther pp380 (for my husband) at a gun show last weekend. I loved shooting the ppk at larry's, but it ate my thumb up. He loves the pp so far. I think he's catching the fever

although it has taken a while. I hope to end up with at least one revolver and one pistol I love and shoot regularly plus a smaller footprint revolver for concealed carry (prob a .357 since they better die the first shot if I have to pull it). Husband can have his own

. He's more of a collector type. Guess I'll pass on this one and keep looking. Thanks for all the help!

swcanovice · #26 09-17-2013, 12:12 PM

Another gun age/Value Question:

I have a Smith & Wesson Model 10-6, presumable a nickel finsh gun that I inherited from my Dad when he died.

It says 38 S&W Special CTG on the barrel and also has a pearl handle.

Any idea of the value. Is this considered a collector's gun?

My Dad really liked it and had it for more than 30 years?

There is a 6-digit serial number on the bottom that starts wiht C824 and is located on the bottom of the handle.

I think I have attached pics..

Please advise if you have any info on this gun.

Thanks.

100_1083.jpg

100_1084.jpg

100_1086.jpg

100_1089.jpg

100_1085.jpg

PALADIN85020 · #27 09-17-2013, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swcanovice

Another gun age/Value Question:

I have a Smith & Wesson Model 10-6, presumable a nickel finsh gun that I inherited from my Dad when he died.

It says 38 S&W Special CTG on the barrel and also has a pearl handle.

Any idea of the value. Is this considered a collector's gun?

My Dad really liked it and had it for more than 30 years?

There is a 6-digit serial number on the bottom that starts wiht C824 and is located on the bottom of the handle.

I think I have attached pics..

Please advise if you have any info on this gun.

Thanks.

You have a nickeled Model 10-6 heavy barrel revolver. These 4"-barreled guns were very popular (both nickeled and blue) with police agencies before semiautomatics became standard. Yours was probably made in the early 1970s. They are quite common and not collector's items unless in as new condition. Should be worth in the $250-$300 range in original very good condition. The aftermarket grips and worn condition on this one detract from value somewhat. Best kept as is as a nice sentimental inheritance from your dad. Hope this helps.

John

P.S. Here is one of mine with a "D" prefix serial number, from a police department, bearing factory stocks.

swcanovice · #28 09-17-2013, 12:48 PM

Thank you for the feedback.