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Old 11-17-2011, 12:54 PM
Doug.38PR Doug.38PR is offline
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Default Buffalo Bore introduces .38 Spl.+P Outdoorsman (Keith Load..with .38-44 velocities)

38 Special +P OUTDOORSMAN Pistol & Handgun Ammunition

AHHHH. Check this out. They even put it through a 1958 S&W Combat Masterpiece to demonstrate it is OK in older guns.

Thing of it is, now that I am into reloading....I'll bet this can easily (and inexpensively) be duplicated (as I think several in here have done already)
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Old 11-17-2011, 01:26 PM
Dave T Dave T is offline
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This appears to be a solid version of their 38 Special+P 158g SWCHP-GC. I've shot that one in both a 5" HD and 4" and it runs between 1140 to 1160 fps. That's almost exactly what this "Outdoorsman" load does...and yes, you can duplicate it with around 12g of 2400.

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Old 11-17-2011, 01:34 PM
Doug.38PR Doug.38PR is offline
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my Speer and Hornandy manuels don't include 2400 in their .38 Spl.+P loading data. The hottest they have listed is Power Pistol. In fact, the Speer seems to be very careful in keeping the velocity of their bullets below or right at 1000 ft per second.
The Hornandy Manuel is even more conservative than that. I've spotted maximum loads in that for other ammo that is well below Speer's recommended STARTING load.
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Old 11-17-2011, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave T View Post
This appears to be a solid version of their 38 Special+P 158g SWCHP-GC. I've shot that one in both a 5" HD and 4" and it runs between 1140 to 1160 fps. That's almost exactly what this "Outdoorsman" load does...and yes, you can duplicate it with around 12g of 2400.

Dave
In a .38 case?
I have put 13, 14, 15 grains of 2400 in a .357 case, and that has one heck of a recoil.
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Old 11-17-2011, 01:46 PM
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My Alliant reloaders guid has only one listing in .38.
200 LRN, 7.1 grains of 2400 doing 890 fps out of a 5.6 barrel.
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Old 11-17-2011, 02:10 PM
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In a .38 case?
I have put 13, 14, 15 grains of 2400 in a .357 case, and that has one heck of a recoil.
I have a Lyman book that list 12.5 grs. 2400, 158 gr. bul. at 1240 fps. in a .38 spec. case. I load 12 grs. 2400, 158 gr. bul. at 1194 fps. out of a 6 in. barrel using a .38 spec. case. Larry
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Old 11-17-2011, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug.38PR View Post
38 Special +P OUTDOORSMAN Pistol & Handgun Ammunition

AHHHH. Check this out. They even put it through a 1958 S&W Combat Masterpiece to demonstrate it is OK in older guns.

Thing of it is, now that I am into reloading....I'll bet this can easily (and inexpensively) be duplicated (as I think several in here have done already)
reloading sure makes things easier huh doug?you get what you want..when you want it..best of luck!
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Old 11-17-2011, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug.38PR View Post
38 Special +P OUTDOORSMAN Pistol & Handgun Ammunition

AHHHH. Check this out. They even put it through a 1958 S&W Combat Masterpiece to demonstrate it is OK in older guns.

Thing of it is, now that I am into reloading....I'll bet this can easily (and inexpensively) be duplicated (as I think several in here have done already)

Handloaders have duped this load for years. The great news here is that non-reloaders can now buy it. I think it will be really good for the needs outlined.

Their equivalent to the old FBI round with a gas check to preclude leading also looks good, as does the non Plus P version, sans gas check.

I think I'll try to fit some of that ammo into my budget. It's hardly cheap, but it looks good. It may be one of those fortuitous cases in which you really do get what you pay for.

The issue that I do see is that although it is safe to fire in .38's, even older ones from a certain point, it is hotter, and will accelerate wear. But for occasional use when the hot ammo is warranted, it's probably ideal.

Hot .38 ammo is like eating chocolate: the docs now say that it contains valuable flavonoids that are heart-healthy, but that excessive consumption elevates the fat aspect, so it's best eaten in moderation.
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Old 11-17-2011, 07:03 PM
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170 grain Lyman #358429 cast bullet with 12.5 grains of 2400 out of my 6 1/2 inch Outdoorsman travels at about 1,210 fps. Recoil isn't that bad oddly enough.
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Old 11-17-2011, 09:17 PM
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That is a positive step, but as the OP says, you can roll your own for less money.

Funny, I used to figure I could put together decent .38 Special rounds for around ten cents each, using brass I scrounged, bulk bullets, bulk primers, and being miserly with the powder. Factory ammo ran about $8 a box at the time so the savings wasn't all that much.

I'm not as miserly as I was then so rounds cost more like a quarter or so each these days. But since the cost of factory ammo has skyrocketed, the savings is much more.

The point is that reloading makes more sense now than ever before.
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Old 11-17-2011, 09:24 PM
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As I have said many times, the hype and fear regarding "+P" with a 125 at 925 is ridiculous. The 38/44 load is hugely more powerful and has been shot through K Frames for decades without incident.

I have reloading manuals from 1970-73 that include loads to duplicate the 38/44 round and none have any warnings about not using them in any particular gun.
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Old 11-17-2011, 10:23 PM
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out of my 4'' heavy duty with rainier 158 jhp copper plated bullets and 12.0 gr.2400 powder and remington small rifle match primers, over the chrony runs anywhere between 1075 fps to 1130 of fps. The cases fall out the chambers!!! very addicting!!!
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Old 11-18-2011, 02:22 AM
Doug.38PR Doug.38PR is offline
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are there any CURRENT reloading manuels that include loading data for 2400 that allows for 12.5 grains?
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Old 11-18-2011, 11:09 AM
Dave T Dave T is offline
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out of my 4'' heavy duty with rainier 158 jhp copper plated bullets and 12.0 gr.2400 powder and remington small rifle match primers, over the chrony runs anywhere between 1075 fps to 1130 of fps. The cases fall out the chambers!!! very addicting!!!
Not trying to start an argument but I'm curious why you use small rifle primers in the 38 Special? I've never had a problem with standard small pistol primers and 38/44 loads with 2400.

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Old 11-18-2011, 11:24 AM
mooshoo mooshoo is offline
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I started with remington small pistol primers and noticed that it would pierce the primer knew it wasn't pressure the case's would fall out of the chamber's. read in this forum that someone said you could use mag or small rifle and I have a bunch of small rifle match primers, loaded a few up and they worked great no more pierced primers, cases fell out of the chambers no signs of high pressure
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Old 11-18-2011, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave T View Post
This appears to be a solid version of their 38 Special+P 158g SWCHP-GC. I've shot that one in both a 5" HD and 4" and it runs between 1140 to 1160 fps. That's almost exactly what this "Outdoorsman" load does...and yes, you can duplicate it with around 12g of 2400.

Dave
This load has been around for years....I doubt you are going to find it in a "modern" reloading manual...
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Old 11-19-2011, 03:29 PM
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I has been recommended that you change reloading manuels often as powders change on the market over time. I.E. Unique powder produced today is not what it was 30 years ago.

So it brings into question whether using 2400 powder today with loading data from 30 years ago is safe.
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Old 11-20-2011, 11:30 PM
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I have a Lyman book that list 12.5 grs. 2400, 158 gr. bul. at 1240 fps. in a .38 spec. case. I load 12 grs. 2400, 158 gr. bul. at 1194 fps. out of a 6 in. barrel using a .38 spec. case. Larry
are those jacketed/semi-jacketed bullets or lead bullets? I looked at the 49th edition of Lyman in the store today and they don't even list lead bullets, just jacketed
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Old 11-21-2011, 02:28 AM
Oyeboteb Oyeboteb is offline
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Indeed, the 1930s 'Heavy Duty' or '.38-44' Loads for .38 Special, were running 158 Grain Lead and around 1200 FPS.

The FBI at the time used it in their Colt Police Positive Special Revolvers, and, S & W and Colt both advertised their ordinary mid-frame Revolvers as accepting that Loading without worry.

So, when, in 1935 or so, when the .S&W .357 Magnum made it's debut...I wonder how those already familiar with the .38 Heavy Duty or .38-44 Cartridges felt about it?

One would have to suppose that the .357 Magnum Revolver as such would endure more rounds of such loadings, than an 'M&P' would...but, for private SD carry or LEO Duty carry and only some rare practice rounds with that Loading, I doubt many folks who had been familiar with the HD/38-44 Cartridges felt the need to run out and purchase the .357 at that time.
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Old 11-21-2011, 09:07 AM
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Indeed, the 1930s 'Heavy Duty' or '.38-44' Loads for .38 Special, were running 158 Grain Lead and around 1200 FPS.

The FBI at the time used it in their Colt Police Positive Special Revolvers, and, S & W and Colt both advertised their ordinary mid-frame Revolvers as accepting that Loading without worry.

So, when, in 1935 or so, when the .S&W .357 Magnum made it's debut...I wonder how those already familiar with the .38 Heavy Duty or .38-44 Cartridges felt about it?

One would have to suppose that the .357 Magnum Revolver as such would endure more rounds of such loadings, than an 'M&P' would...but, for private SD carry or LEO Duty carry and only some rare practice rounds with that Loading, I doubt many folks who had been familiar with the HD/38-44 Cartridges felt the need to run out and purchase the .357 at that time.

The FBI issued the Colt Official Police. If they ever officially issued the smaller Police Positive Special, I have never seen a reference to it.

That does not mean that some agents may not have privately purchased the smaller model, and some carried the snub version, the Detective Special.

Colt did at one time "list" the PPS for the Hi-Velocity load, but I think it just meant they were safe to fire with that ammo. By the 1970's, Colt was advising that their steel guns that size were due for factory inspection after just 3,000 rounds of modern Plus P, which is milder.

See my earlier post in this topic for what S&W sales manager Fred Miller told me about using .38-44 ammo in the Model 10. Using it in earlier M&P guns seems even less wise.

I do realize that you are saying that some probably fired just a few .38-44's in guns not intended for them and got away with it. I'm sure that happened.

Last edited by Texas Star; 11-21-2011 at 09:14 AM.
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Old 11-21-2011, 09:44 AM
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What's all the fuss about...I've been loadin that lit'l deal right thar for many, many years.

A hard cast Lyman 358429 sized .357 and settin on top of a dollup of 2400.
Works equally well in 38-44 and 357 S&W revolvers as well as Colt SAAs.


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Old 10-05-2012, 08:23 PM
shawn mccarver shawn mccarver is offline
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The FBI issued the Colt Official Police. If they ever officially issued the smaller Police Positive Special, I have never seen a reference to it.
I am not sure how you have "never seen a reference to" the FBI having issued the Colt Police Positive, as it is readily available on the internet and in the NRA magazine American Rifleman (August 2011 issue).

Please note that the FBI's first issue handgun was the Colt Police Positive, not the Official Police. The June 28, 1933 report of the weapons committee notes that the Police Positive was already supplied to each field office, and should be issued to each agent. The report can be found here:

http://historicalgmen.squarespace.co...nCommittee.pdf

The condition placed on adopting the .38 Special caliber was that the .38/44 ammo be adopted. The .38/44 ammo was the forerunner to the .357 Magnum, which was not yet introduced in 1933. The .38/44 ammo was VERY HOT by today's standards, and fired the 158 grain Keith semi-wadcutter bullet at 1125 feet per second, which is a low end Magnum round. The round was a Smith & Wesson project, to be fired in its big N-Frame revolvers, known as the .38/44 Heavy Duty (fixed sight) and the Outdoorsman (adjustable sight). Naturally, the little Police Positive must have been a joy to shoot with that ammo! The ammo report is found here:

http://historicalgmen.squarespace.co...comparison.pdf

The initial order for Police Positive revolvers so that the Bureau would have enough so that one could be issued to each agent is found here:

http://historicalgmen.squarespace.co...lttraining.pdf

The directive to train each agent and the distribution of Police Positive revolvers by field office is found here:

http://historicalgmen.squarespace.co...stribution.pdf

As you can plainly see, the Police Positive was the first issue revolver for the Bureau. In case you missed it, the official publication of the National Rifle Association (NRA) had an article on FBI handguns, and it also said the Bureau issued the Police Positive revolver. The article can be found here:

Guns of the FBI History

I hope you enjoy reading all of these original memorandums as much as I did. We certainly owe a debt to Larry Wack, (FBI Special Agent, ret.) for obtaining all of these historical documents and putting them on his site so we can all see them.
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:47 PM
Oyeboteb Oyeboteb is offline
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Originally Posted by David LaPell View Post
170 grain Lyman #358429 cast bullet with 12.5 grains of 2400 out of my 6 1/2 inch Outdoorsman travels at about 1,210 fps. Recoil isn't that bad oddly enough.

I am I naive to worry that the Load you mention would hurt the Web of my Hand a little ( one Hand Shooter that I am ) out of my 1930s 'M&P' Snubby?
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:53 PM
Oyeboteb Oyeboteb is offline
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Originally Posted by shawn mccarver View Post
I am not sure how you have "never seen a reference to" the FBI having issued the Colt Police Positive, as it is readily available on the internet and in the NRA magazine American Rifleman (August 2011 issue).

Please note that the FBI's first issue handgun was the Colt Police Positive, not the Official Police. The June 28, 1933 report of the weapons committee notes that the Police Positive was already supplied to each field office, and should be issued to each agent. The report can be found here:

http://historicalgmen.squarespace.co...nCommittee.pdf

The condition placed on adopting the .38 Special caliber was that the .38/44 ammo be adopted. The .38/44 ammo was the forerunner to the .357 Magnum, which was not yet introduced in 1933. The .38/44 ammo was VERY HOT by today's standards, and fired the 158 grain Keith semi-wadcutter bullet at 1125 feet per second, which is a low end Magnum round. The round was a Smith & Wesson project, to be fired in its big N-Frame revolvers, known as the .38/44 Heavy Duty (fixed sight) and the Outdoorsman (adjustable sight). Naturally, the little Police Positive must have been a joy to shoot with that ammo! The ammo report is found here:

http://historicalgmen.squarespace.co...comparison.pdf

The initial order for Police Positive revolvers so that the Bureau would have enough so that one could be issued to each agent is found here:

http://historicalgmen.squarespace.co...lttraining.pdf

The directive to train each agent and the distribution of Police Positive revolvers by field office is found here:

http://historicalgmen.squarespace.co...stribution.pdf

As you can plainly see, the Police Positive was the first issue revolver for the Bureau. In case you missed it, the official publication of the National Rifle Association (NRA) had an article on FBI handguns, and it also said the Bureau issued the Police Positive revolver. The article can be found here:

Guns of the FBI History

I hope you enjoy reading all of these original memorandums as much as I did. We certainly owe a debt to Larry Wack, (FBI Special Agent, ret.) for obtaining all of these historical documents and putting them on his site so we can all see them.
Hi Shawn,

I for one have really enjoyed the info you relay and link to.

If firing .38-44 or it's present day equivelent out of my mid '30s S & W "M&P" Snubby seems a cringeful prospect to me, I will have to brood some more on how it would feel out of my early '30s Colt Detective Special.

And, as far as I can imagine...Yuck!!!

This might conflict with any interest in indulging in 'follow up shots' for me anyway.

So...Okay, I brooded on it...and...

I do not think I will elect such as my routine 'Carry' Ammunition, even if I m-i-g-h-t try it sometime at the Range, just to really see for sure what it is like.

Lol...

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Old 10-05-2012, 09:16 PM
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Buffalo Bore introduces .38 Spl.+P Outdoorsman (Keith Load..with .38-44 velocities) Buffalo Bore introduces .38 Spl.+P Outdoorsman (Keith Load..with .38-44 velocities) Buffalo Bore introduces .38 Spl.+P Outdoorsman (Keith Load..with .38-44 velocities) Buffalo Bore introduces .38 Spl.+P Outdoorsman (Keith Load..with .38-44 velocities) Buffalo Bore introduces .38 Spl.+P Outdoorsman (Keith Load..with .38-44 velocities)  
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Originally Posted by shawn mccarver View Post
I am not sure how you have "never seen a reference to" the FBI having issued the Colt Police Positive, as it is readily available on the internet and in the NRA magazine American Rifleman (August 2011 issue).

Please note that the FBI's first issue handgun was the Colt Police Positive, not the Official Police. The June 28, 1933 report of the weapons committee notes that the Police Positive was already supplied to each field office, and should be issued to each agent. The report can be found here:

http://historicalgmen.squarespace.co...nCommittee.pdf

The condition placed on adopting the .38 Special caliber was that the .38/44 ammo be adopted. The .38/44 ammo was the forerunner to the .357 Magnum, which was not yet introduced in 1933. The .38/44 ammo was VERY HOT by today's standards, and fired the 158 grain Keith semi-wadcutter bullet at 1125 feet per second, which is a low end Magnum round. The round was a Smith & Wesson project, to be fired in its big N-Frame revolvers, known as the .38/44 Heavy Duty (fixed sight) and the Outdoorsman (adjustable sight). Naturally, the little Police Positive must have been a joy to shoot with that ammo! The ammo report is found here:

http://historicalgmen.squarespace.co...comparison.pdf

The initial order for Police Positive revolvers so that the Bureau would have enough so that one could be issued to each agent is found here:

http://historicalgmen.squarespace.co...lttraining.pdf

The directive to train each agent and the distribution of Police Positive revolvers by field office is found here:

http://historicalgmen.squarespace.co...stribution.pdf

As you can plainly see, the Police Positive was the first issue revolver for the Bureau. In case you missed it, the official publication of the National Rifle Association (NRA) had an article on FBI handguns, and it also said the Bureau issued the Police Positive revolver. The article can be found here:

Guns of the FBI History

I hope you enjoy reading all of these original memorandums as much as I did. We certainly owe a debt to Larry Wack, (FBI Special Agent, ret.) for obtaining all of these historical documents and putting them on his site so we can all see them.
Well done sir, beat me to making a few points and reminded me of several others I had forgotten or overlooked. You're on point and I thank you.

Cheers;
Lefty
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  #26  
Old 10-05-2012, 09:42 PM
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DWalt DWalt is offline
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Buffalo Bore introduces .38 Spl.+P Outdoorsman (Keith Load..with .38-44 velocities) Buffalo Bore introduces .38 Spl.+P Outdoorsman (Keith Load..with .38-44 velocities) Buffalo Bore introduces .38 Spl.+P Outdoorsman (Keith Load..with .38-44 velocities) Buffalo Bore introduces .38 Spl.+P Outdoorsman (Keith Load..with .38-44 velocities) Buffalo Bore introduces .38 Spl.+P Outdoorsman (Keith Load..with .38-44 velocities)  
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I will pass on several loads from my Lyman Reloading Handbook from the mid-1950s for .38 Special High Velocity loads (.38/44, I guess, but it does not say that, only "for Heavy Frame Guns Only")

148 grain cast hollow base, 13.5 grains 2400, 1380 ft/sec; 7.7 grains Unique, 1285 ft/sec
158 grain Thompson H.P., Gas Check, 13.5 grains 2400, 1227 ft/sec; 6.4 gr. Unique, 1154 ft/sec
155 grain Keith H.P. Hollow Base, 12.0 grains 2400, 1230 ft/sec
158 grain Thompson cast plain base, 11.8 grains 2400, 1210 ft/sec

For standard .38 Special loads, none are provided using 2400 propellant, and those velocities max out at about 1000 ft/sec.

This is the complete data entry for the .38 Spl. "high velocity" loadings, except Lyman mold numbers for the bullets above were given.
No jacketed bullets then, I don't think there were many used at that date in .38 Special, as their popularity came later. Equivalent jacketed bullets with the same loads would be maybe 100 ft/sec slower than shown.

Last edited by DWalt; 10-05-2012 at 11:18 PM.
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:04 PM
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Buffalo Bore introduces .38 Spl.+P Outdoorsman (Keith Load..with .38-44 velocities) Buffalo Bore introduces .38 Spl.+P Outdoorsman (Keith Load..with .38-44 velocities) Buffalo Bore introduces .38 Spl.+P Outdoorsman (Keith Load..with .38-44 velocities) Buffalo Bore introduces .38 Spl.+P Outdoorsman (Keith Load..with .38-44 velocities) Buffalo Bore introduces .38 Spl.+P Outdoorsman (Keith Load..with .38-44 velocities)  
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Seems to me the best thing about the load from Buffalo Bore is that you can buy it over the counter for all those who do not roll their own. They do the same with some of the warmer .45 Colt loads. Good company.
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  #28  
Old 10-05-2012, 10:11 PM
shawn mccarver shawn mccarver is offline
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Buffalo Bore introduces .38 Spl.+P Outdoorsman (Keith Load..with .38-44 velocities) Buffalo Bore introduces .38 Spl.+P Outdoorsman (Keith Load..with .38-44 velocities)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oyeboteb View Post
Hi Shawn,

I for one have really enjoyed the info you relay and link to.

If firing .38-44 or it's present day equivelent out of my mid '30s S & W "M&P" Snubby seems a cringeful prospect to me, I will have to brood some more on how it would feel out of my early '30s Colt Detective Special.

And, as far as I can imagine...Yuck!!!

This might conflict with any interest in indulging in 'follow up shots' for me anyway.

So...Okay, I brooded on it...and...

I do not think I will elect such as my routine 'Carry' Ammunition, even if I m-i-g-h-t try it sometime at the Range, just to really see for sure what it is like.

Lol...
If you want to get the "feel" that the agents had back in 1933, load up your D Frame Colt (Police Positive/Detective Special) with the Buffalo Bore load called the "Outdoorsman." It chronographs just a tad faster than the original .38/44 and has the same Keith 158 grain semi-wadcutter. Buffalo Bore says:

"This load is safe to shoot in all 38SPL and 357 magnum firearms of modern design that are in normal operating condition. In the super lightweight alloy revolvers (around 11-12 oz.) the bullet will not jump crimp under recoil provided you do not subject an unfired round to more than 5 or 6 firings. In all steel guns, even short barreled ones, crimp jump is not an issue as the all steel snub nosed revolvers are much heavier than the alloy versions."


https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...t_detail&p=291
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  #29  
Old 10-05-2012, 10:42 PM
Oyeboteb Oyeboteb is offline
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Buffalo Bore introduces .38 Spl.+P Outdoorsman (Keith Load..with .38-44 velocities)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn mccarver View Post
If you want to get the "feel" that the agents had back in 1933, load up your D Frame Colt (Police Positive/Detective Special) with the Buffalo Bore load called the "Outdoorsman." It chronographs just a tad faster than the original .38/44 and has the same Keith 158 grain semi-wadcutter. Buffalo Bore says:

"This load is safe to shoot in all 38SPL and 357 magnum firearms of modern design that are in normal operating condition. In the super lightweight alloy revolvers (around 11-12 oz.) the bullet will not jump crimp under recoil provided you do not subject an unfired round to more than 5 or 6 firings. In all steel guns, even short barreled ones, crimp jump is not an issue as the all steel snub nosed revolvers are much heavier than the alloy versions."


https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...t_detail&p=291

Well...maybe I will do just that, and, send off for a Box and give them a try.

Beats talking through my Hat like I have been, anyway!

My early Detective Special hurts my hand somewhat as it is, with plain old Standard Loading .38 Specials, so, the Buffalo Bore 'Sportsman' round ought to out-do those...but, by how much, I will find out then.

Lol...


All levity aside though, my main concern with this would be how well and promptly I can make rapid-enough and well-enough placed 'Follow Up' shots, which, with Standard old 158 Grain RNL or Lead semi-Wadcutter .38 Special, I can do fairly well, from the Hip or as may be.

Shooting from odd positions, one Handed, ( or with one's not usually used Hand of course ) can be important sometimes, and, if too much recoil, one might have a harder time then with those less-than-ideal holds and impromptu positions and so on, which conditions may sometimes call for or impose.

I did send off for a Box of the Buffalo Bore non +P .38 Special Cartridges, the ones meant for 'Snubbys' I think, but, I have not tried those yet.

What was the average weight and height of G-Men in the early 1930s?

5-8, 135 ish or so? Or, all over the board probably...

Any much larger, and the PPS would have been a might crampy.
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  #30  
Old 10-06-2012, 01:31 PM
shawn mccarver shawn mccarver is offline
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Buffalo Bore introduces .38 Spl.+P Outdoorsman (Keith Load..with .38-44 velocities) Buffalo Bore introduces .38 Spl.+P Outdoorsman (Keith Load..with .38-44 velocities)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oyeboteb View Post
Well...maybe I will do just that, and, send off for a Box and give them a try.

Beats talking through my Hat like I have been, anyway!

My early Detective Special hurts my hand somewhat as it is, with plain old Standard Loading .38 Specials, so, the Buffalo Bore 'Sportsman' round ought to out-do those...but, by how much, I will find out then.

Lol...


All levity aside though, my main concern with this would be how well and promptly I can make rapid-enough and well-enough placed 'Follow Up' shots, which, with Standard old 158 Grain RNL or Lead semi-Wadcutter .38 Special, I can do fairly well, from the Hip or as may be.

Shooting from odd positions, one Handed, ( or with one's not usually used Hand of course ) can be important sometimes, and, if too much recoil, one might have a harder time then with those less-than-ideal holds and impromptu positions and so on, which conditions may sometimes call for or impose.

I did send off for a Box of the Buffalo Bore non +P .38 Special Cartridges, the ones meant for 'Snubbys' I think, but, I have not tried those yet.

What was the average weight and height of G-Men in the early 1930s?

5-8, 135 ish or so? Or, all over the board probably...

Any much larger, and the PPS would have been a might crampy.
Yes, I agree with you about the loads. Felt recoil is always higher with either heavier bullets or higher velocity.

As to the average height and weight of an FBI Agent of the early 1930s, I have no idea, but I imagine that regardless of physical stature, they all stood taller than the mere height measurement!
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  #31  
Old 10-06-2012, 03:25 PM
Hannibal Barca Hannibal Barca is offline
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Those .38/44 HV of Buffalo Bore could be a good middle load (medium velocity) for revolvers .357 Mag K frames.

Last edited by Hannibal Barca; 10-10-2012 at 11:13 AM.
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