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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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  #1  
Old 12-13-2011, 08:56 AM
edenney edenney is offline
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Information needed about my .22 S&W Long Rifle (K22?) Information needed about my .22 S&W Long Rifle (K22?) Information needed about my .22 S&W Long Rifle (K22?) Information needed about my .22 S&W Long Rifle (K22?) Information needed about my .22 S&W Long Rifle (K22?)  
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I'm 41 and I used to be an avid hunter and shooter as a child and in my teens, but I haven't done much of any shooting to speak of since then. I still have a number of guns from my childhood up to my early 20's, including this .22 S&W that was given to me about 20 years as a gift by my father. We haven't spoken more than a few times in as many years, and he didn't give me any information about it at the time. From what I've been able to glean I believe it's a mid 1930's K22 with a 6" barrel, original grips and grip adapter. The serial # is 659276, printed on the base of the gun and underneath the barrel (visible when the chamber is open). I also noticed what looks like a B underneath the barrel, but at the opposite end from where the serial # is, not near the SN itself.

I'm considering selling it and giving it a home where it would be more appreciated and hopefully used, but before I do anything else I'd let to gather as much information about it as possible. It's certainly been used, and has minor (imo) holster wear on the barrel tip and sides, and the expected signs of age and moderate use elsewhere, but it's in very good condition visually and mechanically for what I believe is a 75+ year old gun. I'm not qualified to provide a numerical rating, but my guess is that it's in the 90's. Someone much more qualified would have to inspect it first hand to provide a more accurate rating.

Any information provided would be greatly appreciated. I'm looking to determine the manufacture date as close as possible, any useful details about the gun or its history (in general obviously), and the roughest of approximate values. I totally understand that it's very difficult to price a gun without a physical inspection. I have more photos available with close-ups which I can make available upon request, I just didn't want to put too many on this page.

Thanks a bunch in advance!

*I'm adding some links to additional photos below to help define the condition. I didn't have good lighting readily available for shooting without a flash, but even with the flash these should help quite a bit. I'll need to take better pics of the barrel though, I'll do that today. Note that what looks like dirt inside/above the chamber area of the gun in one of the photos, is actually the fibers from the case it was given to me and stored in. They jump right onto the gun and wipe right off, but I don't have the cleaning tools to get to that spot.*

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8413336...n/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8413336...n/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8413336...n/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8413336...n/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8413336...n/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8413336...n/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8413336...n/photostream/

Links to photos without flash:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8413336...n/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8413336...n/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8413336...n/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8413336...n/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8413336...n/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8413336...n/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8413336...n/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8413336...n/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8413336...n/photostream/




Last edited by edenney; 12-13-2011 at 05:43 PM.
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Old 12-13-2011, 10:06 AM
Mac44reasons Mac44reasons is offline
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ed, beautiful piece ! i am currently in about the same dilemma as you. my brain says sell , but my heart disagrees. have you taken the grips off to see if the serial number is on them as well? do you have the box? with the adapter , based on the looks , you have a very desirable smith & wesson . these forum members will certainly school you as they have me . if you have it lettered , it will certainly cancel out any questions a buyer might have ! my serial # is 6378** so just a tad older and it is 1934 i believe ! pre-war...goodluck and great gun...
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Old 12-13-2011, 10:06 AM
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That's a beauty!!!!
Someone else would have to give you the estimate
I'd love to give it that good home.....really
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Old 12-13-2011, 10:19 AM
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Yes, that's a '30s era K-22. It was marketed as the K-22 Outdoorsman between 1931 and 1940. Collectors call it the K-22 First Model, and when it was in development at the factory it was called the .22-38 because it was a .22 revolver built on their .38 frame. The factory probably shipped that gun in 1936 or 1937.

The use of flash left the gun underexposed in the photos, so it's hard to judge its condition directly. But what you describe is consistent with a 95% gun, and that means a fair value around $1000. Maybe 10-20% more if the condition is a little better than what I see in my mind's eye. Prices on these have risen slightly in the last couple of years.

The Fray-Mershon grip adapter is not original to the gun. It was probably acquired postwar.

Do you know if this revolver was ever refinished? Something about the way the light rolls off the surfaces leads me to think that is not a 1930s factory blue job. But the frame doesn't seem to show the rounded corners you see from secondarily polished and reblued guns, so maybe it's OK. Refinished guns are not sought by collectors, who are interested in original condition. Even though a refinished gun can look good, its value drops nearly to that of an unrefinished shooter-grade gun. If this one is refinished, bidding by informed buyers would probably top out around $600.

This was one of S&W's few successful models during the Great Depression. I don't know exact production numbers, but I think around 20,000 were made and sold. After WWII, when the model was reintroduced, the company sold (and continues to sell) hundreds of thousands of K-frame .22s that descend from this original design.
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Old 12-13-2011, 10:29 AM
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Welcome to the forum. Nice revolver.
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Old 12-13-2011, 05:01 PM
edenney edenney is offline
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Thank you very much for all of the info on this gun! Hopefully I'll be able to narrow down the date of manufacture a little tighter. I've added links to some of the additional photos I took that definitely show the detail and condition much better since I shot close ups of separate areas of the gun. The original photos were taken with a flash by necessity, but I'm working to take and upload some additional photos without a flash.

The body (sorry if that's not the technical term) of the gun is in GREAT condition, and has no significant scratches or wear. The only notable wear is at the holster contacts points, primarily on the barrel at the tip, and to a lesser degree on the sides of the barrel and in front of/above the trigger guard where it would rest in a holster.

With respect to the bluing being original or not, I can't state with certainty, but my father is a lifelong avid gun collector and hunter and I'd be surprised that he knowingly bought the gun if it wasn't original, unless there was some other really good reason for buying it. Also, I know the holster wear didn't occur in my possession or much at all in my father's possession (he just didn't spend his time shooting .22s, and wouldn't have carried it on the trail), which means the vast bulk of the wear almost certainly occurred prior to the 1970s. Given the amount of wear, which you can see in additional photos I linked to, I'd wager that it took place over a fairly long period of time, which all points to the bluing being very old if not original. That's about all I can say about it, but I'd imagine that someone knowledgeable could say with certainty if they had a close look at the gun. Perhaps you might be able to tell much better when you see the additional pics that I added links to.

I don't know anything about the grip adapter btw, other than it looks very old, and I know it's been on the gun for at least a relatively long time.

@Weatherby - Thank you. I've been PM'd by interested parties if I sell it, and I'll give PM's first crack at it in order of receipt if I do decide to sell it. If you're interested, let me know so you're in the queue. If and when I've got all my ducks in a row to sell it I'll let the people know that have PM'd me.


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Originally Posted by DCWilson View Post
Yes, that's a '30s era K-22. It was marketed as the K-22 Outdoorsman between 1931 and 1940. Collectors call it the K-22 First Model, and when it was in development at the factory it was called the .22-38 because it was a .22 revolver built on their .38 frame. The factory probably shipped that gun in 1936 or 1937.

The use of flash left the gun underexposed in the photos, so it's hard to judge its condition directly. But what you describe is consistent with a 95% gun, and that means a fair value around $1000. Maybe 10-20% more if the condition is a little better than what I see in my mind's eye. Prices on these have risen slightly in the last couple of years.

The Fray-Mershon grip adapter is not original to the gun. It was probably acquired postwar.

Do you know if this revolver was ever refinished? Something about the way the light rolls off the surfaces leads me to think that is not a 1930s factory blue job. But the frame doesn't seem to show the rounded corners you see from secondarily polished and reblued guns, so maybe it's OK. Refinished guns are not sought by collectors, who are interested in original condition. Even though a refinished gun can look good, its value drops nearly to that of an unrefinished shooter-grade gun. If this one is refinished, bidding by informed buyers would probably top out around $600.

This was one of S&W's few successful models during the Great Depression. I don't know exact production numbers, but I think around 20,000 were made and sold. After WWII, when the model was reintroduced, the company sold (and continues to sell) hundreds of thousands of K-frame .22s that descend from this original design.

Last edited by edenney; 12-13-2011 at 05:07 PM.
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Old 12-13-2011, 05:46 PM
29aholic 29aholic is offline
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Given the condition of the grips and the vivid case colors on the hammer and trigger, as well as the sharp edges on the cylinder flutes, I would say the finish is original. I would probably rate that gun 97% and give it a value at $1200-1500. The "B" you spoke of in the serial number area of the barrel indicates the gun shipped as blue.
Nice gun and welcome to the Forum.
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Old 12-13-2011, 06:01 PM
edenney edenney is offline
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**Added links to additional pics in my original post, some with a flash and some without.**

Thank you. I saw your thread when I first found my way here, and the information in it is what really helped me to figure out what I had and the approximate age. If I had a sentimental attachment to the gun I'd be more reluctant to sell it, but it's not a family heirloom and I have no relationship with my father who gave it to me. I do still have guns that I used to hunt and shoot with when I was a kid that he gave me that I'd be more reluctant to sell.

I haven't removed the grips btw, and I don't intend to do so for fear of screwing anything up. It's been so long since they were last removed, I think it's better left to someone else. I'm 95% sure they're the original grips though. Unfortunately I don't have anything else other than the gun and the case that he gave it to me in, which is leather with a wool interior and fits the gun nicely. No box or original docs with this one.

Btw, what are you referring to when you say "having it lettered"? Is that a document from the manufacturer which provides the details such as DOM etc? What's involved with getting this done as does it really matter when it comes to selling a gun such as this? (this question is for anyone).

For others following this thread, what if anything should I do before putting it up for sale, once I determine a good value? Also, I've never sold any of my guns before, so any information or words of advice would be helpful. I live in California btw.

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Originally Posted by Mac44reasons View Post
ed, beautiful piece ! i am currently in about the same dilemma as you. my brain says sell , but my heart disagrees. have you taken the grips off to see if the serial number is on them as well? do you have the box? with the adapter , based on the looks , you have a very desirable smith & wesson . these forum members will certainly school you as they have me . if you have it lettered , it will certainly cancel out any questions a buyer might have ! my serial # is 6378** so just a tad older and it is 1934 i believe ! pre-war...goodluck and great gun...
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Old 12-13-2011, 06:47 PM
edenney edenney is offline
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Excellent, thank you very much for the info and estimated value. The "B" and your observations appear to confirm my belief that the bluing was original, good to know.

I noticed in one of the other threads regarding a very similarly dated K22 (without the grip adapter), that someone indicated they believed the grip adapters for this gun are/were very expensive ($350-$400?). Can anybody confirm this, and does the $1200-$1500 value include the grip adapter value if that cost is accurate? Does it affect the value much if at all if the grip adapters were on the gun from the factory or if they were added sometime afterward (but at least decades ago)? If they're that expensive, the 12-15 seems like it's a little bit low from pricing I've found on similar guns without the adapter, but I'm the newbie here .

As I've mentioned, I'm new to this process and have never sold any of my guns. Should I take the gun to a gunsmith (if I can find one in So-Cal these days lol), to have it cleaned and appraised? Is there a standard procedure by which they examine the gun and create a document that rates it, much like diamonds are rated by a gemologist? If so, does it cost very much, and is something like that generally required or preferred prior to resale?

Again, thanks for everyone's contributions!

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Originally Posted by 29aholic View Post
Given the condition of the grips and the vivid case colors on the hammer and trigger, as well as the sharp edges on the cylinder flutes, I would say the finish is original. I would probably rate that gun 97% and give it a value at $1200-1500. The "B" you spoke of in the serial number area of the barrel indicates the gun shipped as blue.
Nice gun and welcome to the Forum.
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Old 12-13-2011, 06:55 PM
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If it helps, one in similar condition just came up for sale in Calguns... $650 for gun, wood box and vintage ammo.
Literally had my head on a pillow when it appeared on my Android and thought about it for a minute... couldn't swing it with holiday coming up. Oh well... later that night I checked and someone had Zapped it up! Ad is gone now.

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Old 12-13-2011, 06:56 PM
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Its a nice gun. Shows some signs of wear and tear, but that can't be fixed. It does need a good cleaning by someone who knows what he'd doing. I particularly dislike the area above the forcing cone. That accumulation of burned powder and probably lead fouling can easily be removed and will make the gun look better. I'd guess the value around here to be between $1500 and $2000. The lower end without the box.

The Mershon adapter is aftermarket. S&W did make one and they did install them on special order. Those are pretty rare. I would guess the original owner just wanted one, so he bought the brand carried by the local gun store. I've got a box for rubber grips sold by the store my gun was shipped to! Mine are postwar. We call them Goodyears in a derogatory manner.

Its a nice gun and would be the centerpiece of many collections. Keep it.
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Old 12-13-2011, 07:09 PM
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I would hang on to it unless you really need the cash.It's a better investment than real estate or most stocks.
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Old 12-13-2011, 07:26 PM
Mac44reasons Mac44reasons is offline
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ed, a letter will basically tell the original story as does a "build sheet" for a classic muscle car ! what smith & wesson did , when it was done and where it was sent ! roy jinks would be the expert and the cost is 50.00 per firearm ! the form can be obtained on this forum or by simply doing a search for a "roy jinks" letter ! good luck ....mac
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Old 12-13-2011, 07:28 PM
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You have a real treasure there. I would advise you to hang on to it and pass it on as part of the family legacy.

You may not have a particular affinity for guns, but someone in your family may put a real value on that gun the story behind it.

If you choose to sell it, as others have indicated it could very realistically bring between $1200 and $1600 and feasibly more.

I bought one of similar vintage and condition 2 years ago and paid $1300 for it. I boogied out of the place in a hurry before the seller woke up and chased me down.

I can guarantee that you can sell it here in a hurry should you choose to do so, and it will cherished for what it is if you do.
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Old 12-13-2011, 08:33 PM
edenney edenney is offline
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Very strange. I haven't been able to access this site for over an hour from my home, and still can't. I can access any other site, just not this one. Changed my DNS servers but still no help. My daughter's computer can access the site no problem from her ISP about 100 miles away from me, so I'm having to control her computer remotely to read and post for now. It's almost as if my IP has been blocked, but there's no reason at all for that. This thread is the only place I've posted, and I can't imagine that I've violated any rules.

Aaaanyway. I really appreciate the feedback from everyone. I totally understand the people urging me to just hang on to the gun and pass it down or something. Unfortunately I'm disabled now, and even if I weren't I haven't done any hunting or shooting for over 20 years, so all of my guns aren't being loved or used like they were when I was young. I only have one daughter, and she's never fired a gun and has no desire to do so (she was raised by her mom ), so she wouldn't even want this in her home and wouldn't appreciate it. I have no relationship at all with my father who gave it to me so long ago, and there's no love lost there at all, plus like I said, it wasn't a family heirloom. To be honest, I would just rather a gun such as this be owned by someone that would truly appreciate it and hopefully use it.

As far as it being a good investment, I have a John Wayne Commemorative Colt .45 inlaid with gold brand new in the collector's box that I've had for 25 years, and I'm disgusted that it's worth no more now than it was the day it was sold, possibly even less now. I've kind of lost faith in guns as an investment . I'm sure this gun may appreciate somewhat in time, but I don't have much faith that the economy is going to turn around in the forseeable future, and it seems just as likely that my guns may depreciate as appreciate the way things are going... I don't even want to talk about how much my house has depreciated in the last few years. I could've bought at least 100 of these for how much I've lost in that dept..

I've left a message for a local gunsmith I found online, so I can arrange to have the gun properly cleaned and perhaps appraised, unless he charges a substantial fee just to appraise it. Hopefully he'll also be able to properly rate the gun at the same time. I'll post a follow up about it later if I take it to him. No idea how much I should expect to pay to have it properly cleaned and appraised, any input?

Anybody that's seriously interested in owning this, drop me a PM and I'll make a note of the order that people PM'd me, so that when I do sell it in the near future I can give those people first crack at it. I do intend to sell it once I have a value nailed down and the gun is ready for sale. When I do sell it, I will absolutely stand behind it and satisfaction will be guaranteed.
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Old 12-13-2011, 08:38 PM
Joni_Lynn Joni_Lynn is offline
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Outstandingly nice revolver, congrats.
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Old 12-13-2011, 09:22 PM
Mac44reasons Mac44reasons is offline
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ed, its kinda funny how you mention the "like you are blocked thing" ! i recently joined and did make mention of possibly selling my k , i did post one pic ! "BUT" now i cant seem to post pics anymore ! i can post them everywhere else , but just not here ! maybe its just a glitch , maybe not ! ill try and post a pic here , if no pic , then the glitch remains !

nope , tried twice, says invalid-contact- administrator ! i know the link is good as it is the same pic i posted 2 days ago ! no biggie , plenty of other venue's out there to offer your wares ed !
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Old 12-13-2011, 10:31 PM
edenney edenney is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac44reasons View Post
ed, its kinda funny how you mention the "like you are blocked thing" ! i recently joined and did make mention of possibly selling my k , i did post one pic ! "BUT" now i cant seem to post pics anymore ! i can post them everywhere else , but just not here ! maybe its just a glitch , maybe not ! ill try and post a pic here , if no pic , then the glitch remains !

nope , tried twice, says invalid-contact- administrator ! i know the link is good as it is the same pic i posted 2 days ago ! no biggie , plenty of other venue's out there to offer your wares ed !
Are you trying to link to images hosted on a sharing site, or are you trying to upload an image directly by using the "manage attachments" button? Either way, the best way to test the problem is to try and repost the exact same image that you did originally, using the same procedure. That eliminates all of the possible issues with the other photos you'be been trying to post. If you can't even post the same picture as you did before, using the same method, then something is definitely funky. Give that a try, and just use the preview button to see if it's working so you don't have to actually submit the test post.

My problem is I can't even access the site! Typically when you can access one website but not another, and you know that both websites are up and working properly, then it's a DNS issue and the path you're talking from your computer to the hosting server has a problem somewhere along the way. Changing DNS servers in your TCP/IP settings allows you to take a different path. Unfortunately, even changing the DNS server settings isn't helping me, and neither did rebooting my router. The only other thing I can possibly think of is that my IP has been blocked by a site administrator/moderator, or in the router that this site is hosted behind, but that would be pretty crazy and unjustified. Hours later, after a computer reboot, and a router reboot, and after changing my DNS server settings and changing them back, I'm still stuck remotely controlling my daughter's computer from 100 miles away, just so I can use it to access the site. Pretty lame.
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  #19  
Old 12-14-2011, 08:22 AM
Mac44reasons Mac44reasons is offline
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Information needed about my .22 S&W Long Rifle (K22?) Information needed about my .22 S&W Long Rifle (K22?) Information needed about my .22 S&W Long Rifle (K22?) Information needed about my .22 S&W Long Rifle (K22?) Information needed about my .22 S&W Long Rifle (K22?)  
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yes ed, same pic ! i tried that right after i attemted another view of the gun ! i thought it was just me and myself and I 'S inability to follow instructions , but doesn't appear that way now ! just tried again , gets to 69 % and stalls ! same pic !
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  #20  
Old 12-14-2011, 10:06 AM
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bigmoose bigmoose is offline
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Information needed about my .22 S&W Long Rifle (K22?) Information needed about my .22 S&W Long Rifle (K22?) Information needed about my .22 S&W Long Rifle (K22?) Information needed about my .22 S&W Long Rifle (K22?) Information needed about my .22 S&W Long Rifle (K22?)  
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That gun looks to be in outstanding shape. What more can a gunsmith do to it, and at what cost? Also, a gunsmith and a firearms appraiser are two different skills. Maybe the one you found has both talents. There are some very talented and knowledgeable folks on this board who keep track of current prices, trends, and sales. My bet is the information you glean here will be as good or better than what a gunsmith would tell you as regards to value. Or find a gun appraiser in your area.

In reference to you being blocked from this thread, contact the administrator. I think there is some kind of rule about stating intent to sell, and not listing a price. Maybe you were blocked to prevent continuing in this vein.

Anyways, best wishes to you, and thanks for bringing that nice K-22 to this board.
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Old 12-14-2011, 01:27 PM
rboineau rboineau is offline
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Information needed about my .22 S&W Long Rifle (K22?) Information needed about my .22 S&W Long Rifle (K22?) Information needed about my .22 S&W Long Rifle (K22?) Information needed about my .22 S&W Long Rifle (K22?) Information needed about my .22 S&W Long Rifle (K22?)  
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Unless you know well the gunsmith, I wouldn't hand it off to him. Who knows what might happen to the gun while in his care? If you can take a few slightly more revealing photos I think the people on this forum can evaluate the gun's condition accurately enough to allow you to establish value. Or perhaps a knowledgeable forum member in your area would look at the gun for you--and I doubt you'd be charged for his help.

Where are you located?
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