Smith & Wesson US NAVY Victory model SN V122480 on all parts. Grip has 3 notches.

does anyone have an idea how much this revolver is worth?

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It's not in the greatest condition and the grips are from a considerably earlier period than the likely shipping date of late 1942. Also, the holster is not military. Nonetheless, Navy-marked Victories are very desirable. I'd say $600.

Thought I'd check mine in:

V165078
Flaming bomb; GHD; "P" V165078 on butt
United States Property on Left Top strap
38 S&W CTG
Matching SN's: barrel, cylinder, ejector, butt, crane (inside facing cylinder)

Stocks are checkered with S&W medallion as furnished on pre victories. SN on right stock is 727158.

Left stock has 7 notches carved into it. Not a good practice to do this in a combat theater...

The 88 year old Army Veteran that brought this back said that the stocks, as they are today, are exactly the way they were when he got the revolver. He found this revolver early May 1945 when going through German POW personal gear that was lefty behind after the prisoners were shipped out. He took it and brought it home.

I asked him about the notches and he said that his buddies told him to ditch it because if he was caught the Nazis would shoot him on the spot. He said he wasn't worried since all of the Germans he saw were heading west by the hundreds.

Still chambered in .38 S&W and no British proof marks.

What was the approximate ship date on this one?

Many Thanks!

That holster is one of the infamous clamshells that came out around mid-century. The hinge was spring loaded so that the holster would snap open at the press of a button for a lightning fast draw, and the swivel was so that the officer could tip the muzzle up and out of the way when getting into vehicles. Stories circulated that kids were sneaking up behind officers and pressing the button to watch the weapon fall out, but a more likely scenario was that officers were accidentally pressing the buttons themselves. In any event, a collector might pay good money for yours.

DWalt,
Thank you for your assessment, this revolver was handed down to my father by his father in 1969 and now it is mine. should the grips have the same serial number on the inside of the grips because there are no numbers there at all. I am adding a few more photos.

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Roundels,

thanks for that info on the holster, I would never sell it as it will go to one of my grandsons someday. it is cool however and with the exception of a few too many mars and an open wear spot near the top it works well. it allows the revolver to be pulled straight up into the firing position without pulling up and then extending it.

Just wanted to include my Victory I found earlier this year. The revolver is not a prestine example and shows use! But use that I feel is indicative of use in WWII. I have not made a copy of the Letter from S&W yet, but will this weekend. I do have a couple of photos of the revolver. The information provided by S&W is as follows:

"We have researched your Smith & Wesson .38 Victory Model, United States Navy Contract, caliber .38 S&W Special, revolver in company records which indicate that your handgun, with serial number V116134 was shipped from our factory on October 6, 1942, and delivered to United States Navy, Norfolk, Va. The records indicate that this revolver was shipped with a 4 inch barrel, military midnight black finish, butt swivel, and smooth walnut non- monogrammed grips."

Although the "midnight black finish" is well worn, she is still in excellent condition. This revolver was used, fired little, carried a lot , and clean! Here are some photos of the Victroy.

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Greetings,

Just joined this forum and this is my first post. Wanted to add my two Victory models to the database.

1. Serial# V147186. Black finish and inspector's initials of WB or WF near ordnance symbol.

2. Serial# V151350. Black finish with inspector's initials of WB near ordnance symbol.

Picked these up in 1997/1998. Forgot who had them for sale (SOG?) but I remember they were a pretty good deal. Would like to know if anyone knows when these may have been made. Thanks.

Greg

As your finish is not so hot, I do not think re-Parkerizing it would hurt value (military midnight black is a phosphate finish similar to Parkerizing), and would certainly make it look like new. And you can do it yourself. There is a recent posting on this subject involving a Navy Victory. Renewed Victory As you may know, Navy Victories are among the most desirable of the breed.

Here is another contribution to your Victory list. It is serial # 985XXX , has parkerized finish , marked "US PROPERTY" , butt marked WB and flaming bomb stamped.I display it with a short "Tanker" holster ,issued to armoured vehicle crews.Smith & wesson Victory model 002.jpg

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Correction to Pre-Victory. Stamped "UNITED STATES PROPERTY".

Hello,
I just picked up a Navy Victory missing Lanyard ring but is still very tight and the finish is missing from the gun and has some pitting.

The grips match the serial on the gun but they are not the smooth grips but rather they are checkered factory originals so this throws me off as all the ones I have seen are smooth?

I would like to refinish it but not sure what finish is correct for the serial number which matches thru out the gun V196311 I bought it for $216 with the tax and it has a 4" barrel was this a fair price for it?
Thanks

Yours would have shipped in the late 1942-early 1943 period. I'm unaware of any of the Victories having original checkered grips as you describe. It's possible someone checkered the original smooth grips. There has been quite a bit said here about refinishing Victories by Parkerizing. See: Renewed Victory It's the finish used for most of the WWII revolvers, which S&W called "Military Midnight Black." It's not a difficult operation to perform yourself, and there are Parkerizing kits available from several sources if you want to try it. Google "Lauer Weaponry" for some information, but there are others. http://lauerweaponry.com/index.cfm?f...tegory_id=1036 Or Google "Brownell Parkerizing Chemicals." http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-to...prod24778.aspx

You might provide a picture of what the grips look like. Navy Victories are very desirable, and if its cosmetic condition is already poor, refinishing using Parkerizing is a good way to go. Replacement smooth grips and lanyard rings are not difficult to find, and not very expensive. Look for them on eBay. You did well on the price.

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Last grip pic

As stated the serial number matches the pistol on the inside of the grip


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The design pictured is very similar to the standard grips used by S&W during the 1920s, yet not quite identical. At least that's my impression. It's certainly not the commercial style used by S&W throughout the 1930s and early 1940s. I have to believe that, if the SN on the grip panel matches that of the gun, someone probably applied checkering to the original smooth grips.

You are right - the revolver's appearance would be greatly enhanced by Parkerizing.

3 to add:

M&P 966792 - Australian D^D marked, FTR in 1955. Topstrap marked "United States Property" WB marked on butt. .38 S&W

Victory V389684 - US Property GHD on topstrap .38 Special

Victory V570313 - US Property GHD Osterreich Polizei Marked .38 S&W

Those would have shipping dates from (approximately) 4/42, 9/43, and 4/44, respectively.

I have a Victory model. V 521962 on the butt, underneath the barrel, and rear of the cylinder. Barrel measured from the front of the cylinder is 2.5".

The cylinder chambers are larger than a 38 special case. I bought some 38S&W brass and some .360 or .361 dia (can't recall which) cast bullets from Missouri Bullet co. esp for 38S&W. Measuring a fired bullet reveals a base diameter of .356 to .357, so I'm assuming I can use regular 357 dia bullets in my barrel.

There is a P proof mark on the left side of the frame near the hammer, Several BNP stamps with a crown above, a G1 and the numbers 7-2-3-66 appear under the crane.

It has the cheap imitation stag grips I see on a lot of these, probably installed by the importer? The side plates etc show a lot of "polishing"-more like grinding and the rollmark is half the normal depth. Any enlightenment?

Yours was likely shipped in early 1944. As described it is highly likely a "Chopped and Bored" British .38/200 Victory. In the 1950s and 1960s, numerous surplus arms importers took .38/200s, had the barrels cut shorter and also had the .38 S&W chambers reamed to accept .38 S&W Special ammunition. Refinishing and replacement grips are also common. You should see if your chambers will completely accept .38 Special ammunition.

These have no collector value, but would be OK as shooters. Surprisingly, a couple of weeks ago, I personally saw one sold for $300, and the purchaser actually knew what he was buying. I wouldn't be interested in one at any price, but some people evidently do see value.

Would a civilian or Defense Supply Comm. Victory be stamped with the Flying Bomb?

Can the Flying Bomb be the only stamping on the gun for it to be considered military property or dose it have to be stamped with inspectors initials or something like US property also?

I traded for this gun and think I made a pretty good deal. Mine will accept 38 special. I was under the impression that 38S&W ammo was ALREADY larger in diameter than 38 special. Were the 38S&W chambers short-bored with a shoulder that stopped the 38 special's longer case? Otherwise I don't understand the need to bore it out for 38 special. When I fired 38 special in it the cases swelled a lot. 38 S&W cases don't swell much. Thank you for the information.

You are absolutely correct that the .38 S&W cartridge has a slightly larger diameter than the .38 S&W Special. .38 S&W chambers have a step in them at the case mouth position, and at that point the chamber diameter decreases enough to disallow the complete chambering of a .38 Special round. Therefore, the chamber must be bored more deeply to admit the longer .38 Special cartridge. Such modified chambers will then accept both cartridges. However, fired .38 Special cases will show a slight bulging due to their sloppy fit in the modified chamber. This is not considered unsafe, but some believe that split .38 Special cases may result. I have not found that to be the case.

So I take it that one of these guns in otherwise good shape is safe to fire normal 38 special rounds. This clears up a lot of doubts I had. And since my barrel seems to be sized for 357 bullets. When I saw how the 38 special cases swelled, I stopped using the specials and went to 38S&W. Thank you for clearing this up.

In general, standard .38 Special cartridges should be OK. I wouldn't use +P loads. Even if a case splits (I've never had that happen in a Victory, but have in other revolvers), it won't do any damage. As these modifications were done in many places (none of them S&W) it might well be possible to find a rechambered Victory with really sloppy chambers that could be more prone to case splitting.

.38 S&W might group a little better than .38 Special, the downside being the availability difficulty and cost of .38 S&W ammunition.

Not sure if had entered my pistol in the data base or not. S/N is V16147. It has to proof or property marks. The only other marking is "261", which I'm assuming is a rack number for the contractor. Any info you experts have would be greatly appreciated. My best guess, based on the five digit S/N is 1942. The grips are checkered without medallion and are serialized/ matched to the pistol.

Additionally, I am considering another Vic, a Navy, S/N 120188. Again, any info is greatly appreciated.
Thx guys.

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Hello Caren:

Thanks for providing the data on your Victory. Where is the "261" number marked on the gun? Are there any butt markings besides the serial number? The stocks that were shipped on this revolver were originally the smooth walnut type.

From the Victory Model Database, which my pal LWCmdr45 and I administer, I can estimate for you that your Victory likely shipped in the June, 1942 time frame.

On V120188 am I correct in assuming that it has "U.S. NAVY" marked on the left topstrap? From the Database I can estimate for you that it likely shipped in the October, 1942 time frame.

I hope that information is helpful to you.

__________________
Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Thanks for responding so quickly. The "261" is on the blackstrap. Pic attached. I thought something was a bit unusual with the grips. The inside of the right grip has the serial number but as you can see, it looks like a home checkering job since the diamond is too small and is off center. My uneducated suspicion is that the right grip was the original smooth and at some point , it was checked. Can't seem to add more than one photo.
Oh, no other butt markings except the S/N. There is no lanyard loop, just a "button".

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Here's a pic of the right grip. Looks like a home made checker job to me.

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Here's a pic of Victory S/N 120188. I have not seen the pistol in person yet. Supposed to meet the owner in 2-3 days. I don't know what's on the top strap. Do you think this might have been one of the early 2 shipments to the Navy. One of 85,000.
Thanks for all your help.

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Hello again, Caren:

I agree with you that the stocks on V16147 appear to have been the recipient of some non-factory checkering efforts.

On V120188 I think you will find that the left top strap has the Navy markings I asked about. Additionally, it has the left frame Navy Property markings. Revolvers with that additional, post-factory marking are often referred to by Victory collectors as "Red Navy's" because the marking is often found filled with red paint. Those dual marked revolvers are considered a desirable Victory variation. The stocks seen in the photo are replacements.

Based on the serial number I would say that this revolver was a direct purchase by the Navy and not one handled by the Ordnance Dept. for the Navy. Thus, it is one of the earlier Navy guns.

HTH.

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

About all that can be said is that there are Navy property stampings known on Victories around that SN, but that does not mean this Victory is one of them. You'll just have to wait and see.

Thanks for confirming suspicions on147. Re 188, sounds pretty cool. I'm anxious to inspect it. I'm just concerned about potential counterfeits, since the early Navy's are rare. Hard to tell from the thumbnail pic but there appears to be a slight hue of red in the marking. Which begs a couple more questions. I'm a purist when it comes to classic cars and firearms. Seems like "reapplying" red to the side plate would NOT be the thing to do. I have seen some others where the red looks too perfect. Additionally, I'm considering putting on some smooth grips on both of them, but will hang on to the ones, as purchased. Will the smooth walnut grips enhance the value much? Is it worth adding them?

I recently acquired a Victory snubby. SN on the butt is V525261. SN on the cylinder (38 special fits) is 931707 (no V). The only military proof marks are on the underside of the 2.25" barrel appear to be British. The frame has the S&W logo on right side plate and "Made in USA" one line. Any info would be appreciated.

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Randy
Provenance nerd

Quinn, that sounds like a put-together gun. Does the barrel have a locking lug to tie down the front of the ejector rod?

V525251 should have a phosphate finish like parkerizing. The cylinder probably did not. If they are similarly finished now, the gun has probably been refinished.

The separately numbered parts were probably first parts of British service revolvers in .38/200 (.38 S&W). Is there a serial number stamped on the flat underside of the barrel.?

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David Wilson

Sure sounds like you have a clone of Oswald's pistol. Odd that you just came across it now. Oswald had a mail order Victory that had been a Brit pistol with he barrel cut and re chambered from 38-200 to 38 Spl. Oswald used the pistol to kill Dallas police officer Tippett.

It is definitely a put together gun, and has been refinished. There is no locking lug for the ejector rod--it looks like a Colt. There is no number on the barrel but no military proof marks on the frame or cylinder. It is just an interesting gun. Maybe I'll do some pictures tomorrow.

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Randy
Provenance nerd

I didn't have benefit of the pictures. Obviously not a very good clone. Just thought it a bit coincidental on the eve of the 50th anniversary of the JFK Assassination. That day sure burns in my memory even this I was just a few days shirt of my 15th birthday.

Most of the chopped Victories were the British .38/200s, and most also had the chambers reamed to accept .38 Special ammunition. At one time not so long ago, these were cheaper than dirt, and almost no one wanted them. From personal observation, they now seem to be selling in the $250-300 range. I cannot say why.

I recently accuiered a S&W Victory, from a dealer in Kopenhagen.
It is rechambered in 38spl. and is allegedly a 1943 production.
It have seen service with the German police as there is markings on the back strap "P.G.Flbg" = "Politzei Group Flensburg". Number is: # V 728978.
I absolutely appreciate the model 10 Victory, as I shot it with my 158grns lead bullets and a moderate amount of the Vithavouri powder, it shots high. Got deasent groups offhand, but prints high! It got me thinking may be I should try some heavier 361 bullets replacing the 357 158grns. in this old warior?

Yours is from more like very late 1944. I find that .357-.358 bullets shoot fine in my .38 S&W revolvers, but each gun will be different. Hollow-base .38 Special wadcutters and light loads may well produce better grouping than any other combination. Hollow-based bullets are like Minie Balls in that they expand to fill the bore completely.

I traded an excellent Glock 19 for this Victory S/N V472077 in 38 S&W Special. It's marked U.S. Property G.H.D on the top strap. All the S/N's match including the grips and has the three P stamps. No strange markings other than the back strap with hand stamped German police ID. The finish is very nice with strong case colors on the hammer and trigger. Do you think it's been refinished since the police stamps are not shiny?

I've read through your very cool thread and assume a late 43 early 44 delivery correct? Is there a close S/N in your datebase with it's delivery location that might indicate my pistols destination? I'm debating a factory letter right now.

Finally does the police stamp lower the value of the pistol? I think the Glock trade was on the high side of what I should have paid but I've been wanting a Victory for a while and sometimes you have to jump when they show up in your hand.

Thanks!

Dave

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Unfortunately a factory letter won't get you too far on most Victories, since they will only list the original shipment date and customer. A lot of the interesting history of the gun will not be documented.

Having said that, I lettered my 38/200 as there were no markings at all to indicated where it "might" have gone after shipment.

Hello Dave:

Welcome to the Forum.

Thanks for providing good pics and complete info on your Victory. That makes it much easier for us to diagnose what you have.

Your estimate on the ship date is correct. I would say, based on the Database, that it probably shipped from the factory in December, 1943. As for its shipping destination I would encourage you to seek a factory letter, and while you are writing for it you should be humming "Anchors Aweigh", if you catch my drift. ;<)

The West German police markings on the back strap only adversely affect the value to guys who are strict USGI collectors. Those markings are part of the history of the revolver, in my opinion, and as a Victory collector I find them interesting in their own right. Any negative is balanced by the positive, I think.

It is very difficult for me to offer solid opinions on finish originality based on Internet pics. From what I can see your revolver's finish appears to me to be original.

Nice gun. I hope this information has been helpful. And if you go for a factory letter I hope that you will post back here with the results.

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Thanks, I appriciate your expertice. The finish is very nice with some small wear on the muzzel and the top strap consistant with holster use. And with close inspection I can see a couple of tiny reddish spots of patina starting on the side frame by the logo. If it was refinished, it was old.

My father was a Navy pilot in the 50's so of course I wanted a Navy marked Victory but this one was available. I think I will get that letter and maybe I'll be suprised! I be sure to post when I comes. You think best to post in this thread?

I carried a .38 for my first few years as an Air Force aircrew member before the switch to the M9. I don't remember what model S&W we had. I'm thinking a Model 15? I'm pretty sure it was NOT the alloy version prone to failure. I was not much into wheel guns at the time, all the rage was hi-cap wonder-nines. Now I have the proper admiration for the classic looks and slick function of the S&W revolvers!

Should I shoot this one? No +P. I do have some Agilla semi jacket in my stash.

Happy Holidays!

Dave

USAF used the Model 15 from the early 1960s until the M9 came on the scene. Should you shoot the Victory? Absolutely.

Hello

Here are two Victory models from my collection

1)
Caliber: .38 Smith & Wesson
Serial: 835753
Barrel: 5"
Finish: Blue with checkered walnut stocks with silver medallions.
Additional Features" Lanyard ring, 'P' stamped on butt, '38/380' stamped on right side of barrel & Canadian C-broad arrow on left side of frame.

2)
Caliber: .38 Special
Serial: V157933
Barrel: 4"
Finish: Phosphate with smooth walnut stocks
Additional Features: Lanyard ring and ordnance flaming bomb on butt.


Factory letters are pending for both and will be added as they arrive.


I do not know if these are in your database, but here are another three of which one has a factory letter.

Collector's Lot of Two Smith & Wesson Victory Model Double Action Revolvers -A) Smith & Wesson Victory Revolver with "U.S. NAVY" Markings

Item:5501522 Smith & Wesson S&W .38 Special Victory - Navy OSS w/ USN Holster For Sale at GunAuction.com

Hello Justin:

Thanks very much for your detailed contributions to the Victory Model Database. It is contributions from collectors like you who help to increase the accuracy and breadth of the Database, for the benefit of all.

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Shipping dates for the two revolvers first mentioned would likely be late 1941 and late 1942 respectively.

I do aprechiate all the feed back on this tread. I will try some SWC in my Victory or even WC`s. It is good to hear that 357/58 bullets shoots fine in 38-200 Wheelguns or in a rechambered or reamed out Victory. I absolutely love the Parkerized old wariors!
I will see if I can post some pic`s soon.