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  #51  
Old 01-23-2012, 03:42 AM
LWCmdr45 LWCmdr45 is offline
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Hawat,

You have an earlier (circa Jan., 1940) British Service Revolver frame/barrel that was originally chambered in .38 Smith & Wesson. It has been fit with a .38 Special cylinder cannibalized from a later Victory Model (SN V164800, circa Nov., 1942). You should have the owner check to see if there's a spare (original) cylinder anywhere to be found.

The "38/380" marking was applied after it left the factory in order for the British to identify it as being chambered for their standard .38 loading (called ".380" by the Brits) as opposed to the identical model revolvers that were also obtained in the non-standard .38 Special chambering.

The "B.O." marking found under the right stock panel is believed by some to indicate "British Order." The other markings under the stocks are irrelevant assembly marks used to keep parts together during final assembly.

Steve
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  #52  
Old 01-25-2012, 05:56 PM
longjohnsilver longjohnsilver is offline
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Question victory model?

here it is and as far as i know still chambered for 38 s&w

v-486500

has british proof markings and parker hale front sight.

any more info you guys might have regarding this pistol would be great!







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  #53  
Old 01-25-2012, 06:18 PM
gordonrick gordonrick is offline
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jetstuff,
Leave some out there for the rest of us! Nice collection!

Bullstone,
It's hard to tell from the small pics, but it looks like a "ream line" in your cylinder. You can verify by trying a .38 special round or case and see if it will fit. .38 Special lead is a few thousandths smaller than the .38 S&W, so you might have some accuracy issues (but probably not enough to worry about with a short barrel anyway). You will have bulged cases though.
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  #54  
Old 01-26-2012, 02:53 PM
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gordonrick:
Thanks for the comments I am looking forward to my day at the range with this V and will come back with ammo condition and poa results,
Thanks Bullstone
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  #55  
Old 01-26-2012, 03:03 PM
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Here is one for the data base. Ser. #999013, 5" barell, .38 S&W



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  #56  
Old 01-28-2012, 11:42 PM
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I just picked up a Victory Model and I'm looking for some information. It is a 5 inch barrel model, marked US Property CHD on the top strap. The barrel has .38 S&W CTG. The serial number is V 4202XX with the lanyard hole between the V and the number. The serial number is on the butt and barrel. The cylinder does not have the serial number and a .38 Special cartridge will chamber. Has the cylinder been machined to accept the Special and should it be safe to shoot modern .38 Special ammo (not +P's)?

Also, what would be the correct grips for this revolver? It has later K frame Magnas. I know they aren't what belong on it.

Last edited by O2Guy; 01-28-2012 at 11:48 PM.
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  #57  
Old 01-30-2012, 05:46 PM
Waidmann Waidmann is offline
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GHD (Col. Guy H. Drewry), try and see if the chambers will accept .38 S&W, although simple reaming was most common, sleeving, swapping and about everything happened. You still have a .361 barrel. Correct grips are smooth non-medallioned military (plowhandle style).

No +Ps, if it is a simple reaming expect bulged or split cases.

Best wishes,
former O-3 guy
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  #58  
Old 01-30-2012, 06:34 PM
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I have one would like some info V520739 it has stamp on right side made in the USA below that is TACSACCA That is what it look like to me but could be some diffrent for the last 5 letters is very hard to make out.
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  #59  
Old 01-31-2012, 05:36 PM
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AABEN,

Your revolver, SN V520739, was probably manufactured in very late 1943 or early 1944. Ordinarily, I would venture to estimate that it shipped from the S&W factory in about Feb., 1944, but it may have sat on a shelf for one month or eight and shipped much later.

The stamping below the "MADE IN U.S.A." at the right side of the frame is probably an importer's mark, possibly "IACSACCO" for Import Arms Co. of Sacramento, Calif.

I presume your gun is a 5" barreled example chambered for the Brit's preferred .38 S&W (as marked on the right side of the barrel). What other markings are on the gun at the top strap, butt, barrel, etc.?

Steve
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  #60  
Old 01-31-2012, 07:07 PM
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Yes it is a 5in ____ Thanks Ben
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  #61  
Old 02-01-2012, 05:01 PM
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A friend and I just purchased a couple of 5" Victory models in .38 S&W. Serial numbers are V6027xx and V4577xx. Both have VEGA SAC CA above the triggers. One has FTR/MA54 on it and L 26. Can anyone tell me if these are British, Canadian or New Zealand as well as shipment dates? We haven't picked them up yet so I am operating from my fading memory. Thanks.
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  #62  
Old 02-01-2012, 05:28 PM
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Most of the "FTR" marked Victory models that I have seen are Australian. VEGA SAC, CA was the importer of lots of these in the 1980s. Most of these were refinished when they are rebuilt. The FTR54 stands for factory repair in 1954 by a government arsenal.

Hope this helps.

Steve

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  #63  
Old 02-02-2012, 05:01 PM
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Default Brit Victory for the Data Base

Here is a K-200 Victory that was converted to 38 Spl and barrel cut to 4" with ramp sight added.
Serial # V647710
BNP proofs on cylinder, frame left side in front of cylinder, barrel at frame.
Proof on underside of barrel
.38" SPECIAL 1.150"
4 TONS PER "
Cylinder has what appears to be sleeves in each chamber and will not chamber a 38 s&w casing(only 38spl)
Grips are checkered diamond with arched base, no ser# on inside of grip.
Front sight ramp is marked Parker-Hale England.
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Victory data base-v1-jpg   Victory data base-v5-jpg   Victory data base-v8-jpg   Victory data base-v4-jpg   Victory data base-v6-jpg  

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  #64  
Old 02-04-2012, 09:42 PM
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The letters on my US Navy Victory, and my Pre-Victory 6" have arrived.....





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  #65  
Old 02-23-2012, 04:04 PM
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Default 5 S&W Victorys

I just found the receipt for 5 S&W Victorys I purchased brand new for $60 apiece-In 1976! All except one were sold to friends. The one I kept was the only one without a V infront of the ser#988917 and no markings on the top.Never paid attention to the others but think they had US property on the top.I don't think these were ever issued.Why is mine unmarked?
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Old 02-23-2012, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamblelane View Post
I just found the receipt for 5 S&W Victorys I purchased brand new for $60 apiece-In 1976! All except one were sold to friends. The one I kept was the only one without a V infront of the ser#988917 and no markings on the top.Never paid attention to the others but think they had US property on the top.I don't think these were ever issued.Why is mine unmarked?
First off, welcome to the forum.

Are we talking about 5" in .38 S&W or 4" in .38 Special? Serial number 988917 would have likely shipped in early 1942, and would be generally regarded as a "pre-Victory." That late, it may have gone out with the Victory-type phosphate finish and plain stocks (how about posting a photo?) The lack of a military property mark suggests that it likely went to a civilian customer, or possibly to the Merchant Marine. Very much worth lettering.
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  #67  
Old 02-23-2012, 05:04 PM
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I have a 4" Victory .38 special that I bought right a few years ago. It is a little beat up, but not as bad as some.
The sn is 603xxx, and has a 'V' to the left of the #, to the front of the butt, ahead of the lanyard loop. The topstrap has the 'flaming bomb', US PROPERTY, and G.H.D. along the left side. The finish is a greyish, greenish, park-looking thing, maybe MnP04.
It is a solid gun and is one of my best shooters. It has a typically sweet S&W trigger.
Is this information useful for the database?
I saw this thread once way back and then didn't see it for a while.
I'm thinkin' this is a good and useful thread.
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  #68  
Old 02-23-2012, 08:43 PM
gamblelane gamblelane is offline
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It is a 4" 38spl Unfortunately I don't know how to do the picture thing. Has plain walnut grips and a lanyard ring.
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  #69  
Old 02-27-2012, 04:29 PM
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Default Update: letter received

As a followup to my post above (#29) I obtained a letter on my Victory.

As Goony surmised the revolver was shipped in 1942 (July 11th to be exact). It was delivered to the US Navy in Norfolk, VA.

Thing is, there are absolutely no markings on the piece to indicate it was a Navy gun; were those markings added after the gun was received or were they applied by S&W? The gun shipped with a butt swivel but the hole has been filled in - and rather well, I might add.

Might this have been bought as a personal weapon by someone in the Navy?

I would like to obtain the correct grips for the gun; is an ad in the "Want to buy" section of this forum the best source?

Thank you.

Ned
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Old 02-27-2012, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardM View Post
Thing is, there are absolutely no markings on the piece to indicate it was a Navy gun; were those markings added after the gun was received or were they applied by S&W?
Might this have been bought as a personal weapon by someone in the Navy?

I would like to obtain the correct grips for the gun; is an ad in the "Want to buy" section of this forum the best source?
Hi Ned:

Thanks for posting the follow up info with the factory letter data on your Victory. That helps us to improve the Database.

Congrats on learning that your unmarked Victory was a Navy shipment. That must have been a very nice surprise for you. Lots of guys wonder about the utility and value of a factory letter. Your experience is one that shows that, in many instances, a factory letter nicely fills in the blanks and increases the value of the gun.

Not all Navy shipped guns were marked US Navy on the left top strap. Unless your gun has had the marking removed (no indication from your earlier post about that) then you simply have one of the guns that did not get the marking. No big significance to that, in my opinion, just another variation that is of interest to Victory collectors. If marked the left top strap would have been roll marked at the factory and not later on.

The gun could have been purchased by anyone, Navy veteran or otherwise. No way to know that now.

The proper stocks are smooth walnut. Yes, a post in the Classified section here may well yield good results for you.
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  #71  
Old 02-27-2012, 07:20 PM
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Mr. Flick:

Thanks for the reply.

It does not appear that any markings were removed.

Ned
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  #72  
Old 02-29-2012, 05:05 PM
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Guys…..I’m a first-time poster, so be gentle! I have started a little Smith revolver collection, and I would like to add a Victory. I found one for sale (see attached photo) that does not have the usual military markings. I understand that may mean it was used in civil service like the post office or factory security or some such. My question is regarding the grips. The seller indicates there are no numbers on them….does that mean they are not original or maybe not even made by Smith and Wesson? Thanks!!!
[IMG][/IMG]

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  #73  
Old 02-29-2012, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by bamalefty View Post
Guys…..I’m a first-time poster, so be gentle! I have started a little Smith revolver collection, and I would like to add a Victory. I found one for sale (see attached photo) that does not have the usual military markings. I understand that may mean it was used in civil service like the post office or factory security or some such. My question is regarding the grips. The seller indicates there are no numbers on them….does that mean they are not original or maybe not even made by Smith and Wesson? Thanks!!!
First off, Welcome to the forum.

Some Victory's sans military markings were still shipped to the Navy nonetheless. A letter is a necessity to know something of your revolver's history.

As to the stocks (grips) - sellers can be wrong on the numbering issue, many don't realize that the number is stamped only on the inside of the right panel. If the stocks are truly unnumbered, they may well be replacements as distributed to armorers and depots. If the gun turns out to have been in fact in military service, such replacement stocks may have been fitted a long time back. However, these stocks were available as surplus well into the 1980's, so could have also been put on relatively recently.
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  #74  
Old 02-29-2012, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goony View Post
First off, Welcome to the forum.

Some Victory's sans military markings were still shipped to the Navy nonetheless. A letter is a necessity to know something of your revolver's history.

As to the stocks (grips) - sellers can be wrong on the numbering issue, many don't realize that the number is stamped only on the inside of the right panel. If the stocks are truly unnumbered, they may well be replacements as distributed to armorers and depots. If the gun turns out to have been in fact in military service, such replacement stocks may have been fitted a long time back. However, these stocks were available as surplus well into the 1980's, so could have also been put on relatively recently.
Thanks......I had the seller take off the stocks and look....no markings. So, these stocks are not original, but are appropriate for a Victory model, right?
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Old 02-29-2012, 06:09 PM
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Thanks......I had the seller take off the stocks and look....no markings. So, these stocks are not original, but are appropriate for a Victory model, right?
Yes, that would be my point of view on the matter.
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  #76  
Old 02-29-2012, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
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Yes, that would be my point of view on the matter.
Thanks! I appreciate your insight
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:29 PM
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I have a US marked pistol GHD ser No is V 568846 on the barral and the butt. on the cylinder it has P V 568846. Then you open the Cylinder it has N 21953 in two places. It is marked 38S&W .barral it has feb 6, 06. Sept 14, 09. Dec 29,14. That is all the marking that I can see. Any inflo on it. Thanks for the help.
David
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:46 PM
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First off, welcome to the forum.

You evidently have a Victory model that most likely shipped in 1944. If it is chambered for the .38 S&W cartridge (as I interpret your description), then it probably has a 5" barrel and was thus made to the British Commonwealth specification. Posting a photo would allow folks here to give a really definitive evaluation of your gun.
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Old 03-09-2012, 04:14 PM
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OK guys, another 1st timer. I got a hold of a beautiful Victory from my grandfather (who is awesome). Not sure where he got it but I am thinking about getting a certificate for it. Thought it was an old police surplus he picked up for a dime, but then did some research and I see now it's a Victory. I have fallen madly in love with the its balance.

Here are the specs: SN: V489229 (bomb ordnance next to SN on butt, lanyard ring), 4" bbl, .38 S&W Special CTG on bbl, all SN's match, chamber also includes an S along w/ the SN, P stamp on left side of gun in upper rear corner. I believe it's Parkerized, and there are a few rust damage spots. There are no Navy/Army/US property stamps. It still shoots .38 spl rounds like a champ.

Would anybody have a firm handle on the production year or provenance? My guess is late 1943. Thanks for any info. Will post pics soon.

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Old 03-10-2012, 01:47 PM
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Hello rsalaud:

Welcome to the Forum.

Your Victory, based on the info in the Victory Model Database which LWCmdr45 and I administer, likely shipped from the factory in the December, 1943 to January, 1944 time frame.

Two questions: Are the stocks of the smooth walnut type with matching serial number inside the right stock panel? Is there a "W" marking on the bottom of the butt?

I hope that info is helpful to you.
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Old 03-10-2012, 04:44 PM
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Thanks for the info OrdnanceGuy. Yes, stocks are smooth walnut with matching S/N, but there is no W on the bottom of the butt. Just the bomb ordnance marking, a "V", and then the S/N.

What would a "W" mean?

Much appreciated.
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Old 03-10-2012, 05:04 PM
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As I have seen both blued and Parkerized finishes on V-models, were both types used, or were the blued ones indicative of a refinish? I have read that all were Parkerized, but I am not so sure.

Over 40 years ago, I had a V-model which was stamped as being the property of the Ohio State University Police. It was blued, in .38 Special. I don't remember any other details.
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Old 03-10-2012, 05:36 PM
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Here is V431996. Anyone know about these "United States Defense Supply Corporation Contract guns?
;
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Old 04-23-2012, 10:05 PM
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Default New Victory to report

I just took ownership of this late victory model, SN V7199XX, chambered in 38 Special. It was reported to have been issued as a police revolver to a WWII vet after the war. I purchased it from the first owner after that, who's had it for 25 years. The finish looks original, and the barrel and cylinder serial numbers match. Not so the numbers on the yoke. Can anyone confirm that these are not normally related to the serial number? The grips appear too good to be original and have no serial number. "US Property", "GHD", and the flaming bomb are lightly struck on the left top strap.

She joins her younger Model 15 cousin, and will be making a trip to the range very soon! Thanks for any information that you can provide.

BuffDriver




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  #85  
Old 04-23-2012, 11:33 PM
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Here is V431996. Anyone know about these "United States Defense Supply Corporation Contract guns?
The Chief of Ordnance permitted the Defense Supplies Corporation to enter into a contract with Smith & Wesson that diverted Victory model revolvers to commercial customers deemed essential to the war effort. Essentially, the DSC's function was to allot (or if you prefer, ration) this small portion of overall production for purposes such as guarding war material plants, storage facilities, transportation assets, utilities, and so forth, as well as providing sidearms to civilian law enforcement agencies.
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Old 04-24-2012, 06:05 PM
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I have a 4" barrel Victory with Serial # V5094XX in .38 Special. I is marked with the "V" and an ordinance mark to the left of the lanyard. It has checkered grips that have no markings on the inside.

Can anyone help me with dating this gun? I am also assuming that since it does not say "US Property" that it probably spent its early life guarding a war plant or military facility. Is that a fair assumption?

Thanks.
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:12 PM
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I have a 4" barrel Victory with Serial # V5094XX in .38 Special. I is marked with the "V" and an ordinance mark to the left of the lanyard. It has checkered grips that have no markings on the inside.
The stocks (grips) sound like they are most likely replacements. Posting a photo would help in determining just what they are, though.

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Can anyone help me with dating this gun?
Your revolver most likely shipped around mid-1944.

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I am also assuming that since it does not say "US Property" that it probably spent its early life guarding a war plant or military facility. Is that a fair assumption?
Not necessarily. Such a non-martially marked Victory model could well have been procured by the United States Maritime Commission, and thus maybe have gone to sea on a merchant vessel.
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Old 04-24-2012, 11:26 PM
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Default One more Victory!

Here are the details of my S&W Victory for the data base. Serial# V358522, all numbers match including inside right grip. Left top strap marked "U.S. PROPERTY G.H.D." Barrel is 4". I am curious to know if all the Victory models had a lanyard ring? Mine does not. There is not even a hole in the frame butt! Just the V serial number. Any idea on the date for this serial number? Thanks, Skip48.
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Old 04-25-2012, 12:52 AM
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Here are the details of my S&W Victory for the data base. Serial# V358522, all numbers match including inside right grip. Left top strap marked "U.S. PROPERTY G.H.D." Barrel is 4". I am curious to know if all the Victory models had a lanyard ring? Mine does not. There is not even a hole in the frame butt! Just the V serial number. Any idea on the date for this serial number? Thanks, Skip48.
That should be 1943 production. I've never heard of a Victory sans provision for a butt swivel, and wonder if there others documented in the database. Certainly would like to see some photos of this one.
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Old 04-25-2012, 10:22 AM
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Thanks for the info, Goony. I just held the serial number area of the butt under a bright light. I can faintly see the area where the swivel hole has been filled in. It is not noticeable at all unless looking under bright light. No grind marks or discoloration to the finish, etc. With the grips removed, I just noticed the swivel pin is still in the frame. Do you think the "fill-in" was done at the factory, or by an Army armorer? Skip48
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Old 04-25-2012, 10:50 AM
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The stocks (grips) sound like they are most likely replacements. Posting a photo would help in determining just what they are, though.



Your revolver most likely shipped around mid-1944.



Not necessarily. Such a non-martially marked Victory model could well have been procured by the United States Maritime Commission, and thus maybe have gone to sea on a merchant vessel.
I would think this one shipped in 1943. Mine is #V524756 & it lettered as shipping 2/1/44.
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Old 04-25-2012, 11:45 AM
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Thanks for the info, Goony. I just held the serial number area of the butt under a bright light. I can faintly see the area where the swivel hole has been filled in. It is not noticeable at all unless looking under bright light. No grind marks or discoloration to the finish, etc. With the grips removed, I just noticed the swivel pin is still in the frame. Do you think the "fill-in" was done at the factory, or by an Army armorer? Skip48
I find it difficult to imagine that many, if any, of the Victory model were specially configured at the factory (an exception being the few 2" barrelled ones, for which the DSC had to obtain express authorization form the Chief Of Ordnance, with assurances that their manufacture wouldn't in any way interfere with or disrupt the continuing manufacture of the normal 4" version). The overriding principle behind adopting the Victory model was maximizing production of a utilitarian and standardized pattern. But as collectors know full well, with Smith & Wesson it's better to never say "never." A letter might in fact reveal that your example was one of a batch that was procured with the butt swivel deleted for some reason.

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I would think this one shipped in 1943. Mine is #V524756 & it lettered as shipping 2/1/44.
The "this one" referred to in the quote being V5094XX. A letter, of course, is definitive, and the ones that are lettered can form a basis for estimating when other heretofore unlettered guns may have shipped. That's tricky, though, because S&W, even in wartime, did not always ship on a timely basis. You've unwittingly brought to light a perfect example of this. You have V524756 that shipped February 1, 1944. I have V4640XX (that's almost sixty thousand earlier in the serial number sequence) that letters as having shipped the very next day.
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Old 04-25-2012, 12:51 PM
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Default Another bit of data

V Model Ser. # V 274516 Frame and cylinder numbers match. The barrel is marked US S. W. Special Ctg and the top strap is marked US PROPERTY GHD. The grips are not numbered and the lanyard ring looks like a replacement. Pretty much standard stuff. My Dad died in 1970 and my sister had the gun until recently and swears he told her he carried the revolver in the Pacific in WWII. He was in the Phillipines and on Guadacanal and Leyte. I doubt her story because when I was growing up I don't remember seeing it. I left home in 1963.

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Old 04-25-2012, 02:07 PM
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V Model Ser. # V 274516 Frame and cylinder numbers match. The barrel is marked US S. W. Special Ctg and the top strap is marked US PROPERTY GHD. The grips are not numbered and the lanyard ring looks like a replacement. Pretty much standard stuff. My Dad died in 1970 and my sister had the gun until recently and swears he told her he carried the revolver in the Pacific in WWII. He was in the Phillipines and on Guadacanal and Leyte. I doubt her story because when I was growing up I don't remember seeing it. I left home in 1963.

That serial number dates your Victory to 1943. You don't say in what branch your father served, but the gun is definitely military issue. The barrel should also be numbered. Wouldn't mind seeing a photo before passing judgment on its originality otherwise.
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Old 04-25-2012, 07:55 PM
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I think that my posting above may have been overlooked with all of the other posts that came immediately after. Would someone be so kind as to offer information as to the possible ship date? If I may provide additional information for the database, I would be happy to do so.

Thanks!

BuffDriver

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Old 04-25-2012, 08:43 PM
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I think that my posting above may have been overlooked with all of the other posts that came immediately after. Would someone be so kind as to offer information as to the possible ship date? If I may provide additional information for the database, I would be happy to do so.
You had said in your original post that it was a "late" Victory, and I think that's accurate. It may have shipped as late as early 1945, but as I had noted in a precious post (#93), such estimates are often inaccurate. Only a factory letter will settle the matter.

The numbers on the crane and in the frame recess exposed when you swing out the cylinder were used to match up components during assembly, and have no significance beyond that, nor any relation to the serial number.

The stocks should be numbered (stamped inside the right side panel) to match the numerical component of the serial number. If not, they may either be reproductions or armorer's replacements.
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Old 04-25-2012, 11:16 PM
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In 1942, at the age of 9 years, I went with my mother to join my father who had been recalled to active duty in April 1942 and assigned to the Mississippi Ordnance Plant in Flora, Mississippi, about 26 miles north of Jackson, the capital. Despite the name, it was an Ordnance training base, training soldiers in maintenance of such hi tech items as 2 1/2 ton trucks, M 4 tanks, etc. Securty,including gate guards, was provided by a corps of private security personnel, dressed in blue uniforms wih white holsters and wearing white pith helmets. They carried revolvers. I didn't know what they were, but now would presume they were Victorys. I imagine that security at other installations was handled in a similiar fashion.

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Old 04-26-2012, 06:38 PM
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You had said in your original post that it was a "late" Victory, and I think that's accurate. It may have shipped as late as early 1945, but as I had noted in a precious post (#93), such estimates are often inaccurate. Only a factory letter will settle the matter.

The numbers on the crane and in the frame recess exposed when you swing out the cylinder were used to match up components during assembly, and have no significance beyond that, nor any relation to the serial number.

The stocks should be numbered (stamped inside the right side panel) to match the numerical component of the serial number. If not, they may either be reproductions or armorer's replacements.
Thank you, sir, for the information. The amount of knowledge here is incredible. I've ordered a copy of The Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson and look forward to learning about the variations that make collecting these firearms so rewarding.

Cheers,

BuffDriver
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Old 04-26-2012, 07:35 PM
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Thank you, sir, for the information. The amount of knowledge here is incredible. I've ordered a copy of The Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson and look forward to learning about the variations that make collecting these firearms so rewarding.

Cheers,

BuffDriver
Buff, be careful, The Standard Catalog is considered by some authorities as the gateway drug to full blown SW addiction. Welcome to the forum.
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Old 04-27-2012, 08:15 PM
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Buff, be careful, The Standard Catalog is considered by some authorities as the gateway drug to full blown SW addiction. Welcome to the forum.
My wife has threatened an intervention on several occasions

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