Thank you, Walkcubs. Your Victory has been added to the Victory Model Database.

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Hello Victory Model Experts,

After years of collecting S&Ws, I just acquired my first Victory Model.

The Serial Number is V 671289.

It is a 4inch, .38 Special, Marked US Property GHD on the top strap.

It is all original ... finish, grips, etc.

Can anyone advise as to the ship date and where it went ?

Thank You very much,

SA 50

That serial number would place the gun in late summer/early fall of 1944. As for where it went, the topstrap stamping means it's a military contract gun, like the majority of these; only a factory letter could begin to answer that question, but even that would likely only get you to an Army depot or (more likely) a Navy installation somewhere, with little clue as to its further adventures.

I recently picked up a victory that can be added to the list, if it is not already on, it is hard to tell where some of these have been. The S/N on this one is V302710 and it has evidently visited Australia.
It has what appears to be the Australian Defense Dept. marks D^D and the FTR/MA53 (assume 1953) and several other markings. It has the US Property and the GHD on the top strap. 5 inch barrel with the black oxide finish and the bore has not been touched, still 38 S&W. Numbers match except the stocks.
It came with a pamphlet and a cleaning rod with the Australian Defense Dept. mark D^D on the rod.

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Regards
Ray S&WCA #2810

You have what seems to be a very nicely refurbished example of a British Service Revolver, a.k.a British Victory model, shipped about May/June 1943 originally, which was re-worked, including most likely a refinish, at the Lithgow Small Arms Factory in Australia in 1953. From your pictures, the finish could be original, but so far all the FTR ones I've come across were refinished. I've never seen one with accessories.

A few days ago I picked up a very rough old nickle plated Victory. Considering its sad condition I have decided to get it restored. Whats left of the barrel shows weak lend lease markings and I'd like to find out who can resorect this old Victory to its former self.

The barrel at some point in its past has been cut down to 2" and the old round blade front sight was relocated (horrible sight picture). I already ordered a NOS barrel, original slick grips and lanyard loop. Now I need a smith who can repark, remark (the bbl, with serial number and lend lease marks) as it was originally marked, and hopefully not break the bank.

I've owned a model 10 in the past and this was the first Victory model I've seen so I had to jump on it.

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Honestly, you'd be better off doing it yourself. You can get some nickel stripper from Brownells. And also a parkerizing kit from the American gunsmithing Institute. That will likely run you about $100 which is less than half of what it will cost you to pay somebody to do it.

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

For the finish, I'd go with Wiregrassguy's recommendation. No gunsmith is going to be able to replicate the original phosphate finish that S&W used anyway, so it'll be a straight parkerizing job and you might as well do that yourself. You do want to invest in proper installation of the new barrel. And don't worry about any "Lend-lease markings"; there weren't any. The marks on the original barrel were British post-war commercial proofs, and collectors wish the British hadn't done those before surplussing them out and left the guns alone. So those are not only unnecessary, but undesirable.

My victory is v635274, 5" barrel, parkerized finish, lanyard ring cut off, 38 S&W ctg,and houge type rubber stocks. From reading other info on this thread it should have been made in 1944. It appears to have no other significant marks except smith and wesson on left side of barrel, 38 S&W ctg on right, and patents on top. Any insight to where it was delivered and the proper stocks for it. Thanks

No way to know where it was shipped, but ultimately it was sent to someplace in the British military. V635274 indicates probable shipment around July 1944. Proper stocks would be smooth wood round-tops. Look on eBay or maybe SARCO. It should have a "U.S. PROPERTY" stamp on the topstrap.

Thanks. It has no markings on the top strap but compared to my 10-5 the edges appear more rounded so maybe the US Property was removed

As DWalt said, with that serial number a BSR would have had the top strap marking. If your "no other significant marks" means yours does not, they were removed post-war. Since it also implies your gun does nor have the usual British commercial proofs applied when surplussed out, someone might have felt compelled to remove that because the gun left official service in a somewhat "informal" fashion .

Got my letter from Smith & Wesson today, this Victory was shipped 8/18/42 to Lovell Manufacturing Co., Erie, PA. An quick web search tells me they made tripods for M2 & M1919 machine guns

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VICTORY MDL LETTER.pdf (384.4 KB, 41 views)

I haven't been able to find a picture of a Victory with these type grips. Are they original? The grips are not numbered but there is a pencil writing, "4-3-42". Anybody seen this combination of this style grips on a V570774 era frame?

It's hard to see in the picture but the bomb, US Property, and GHD are on the top strap
The bore and cylinder are like new and the single and double action is amazing. Who would have thought that S&W would put that much quality into a military issue. Steve

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Retired LEO
Retired SFC USAR

You see all kinds of combinations when you're into Victory models . But that doesn't mean they belong together.

You have a somewhat roughly used, but definitely original-finish Victory from the first half of 1944 with stocks from the 1920s. I don't know who wrote the date in, but that's not standard; the factory only stamped or penciled serial numbers. I'm assuming it's a date, unless it's some sort of code; any serial number from the time period when this style of grip was produced would have six digits.

Your SN would date its original shipment to have been around April 1944. Those grips are of the style S&W used in the 1920s, therefore they are not original.

Thanks for info DWalt & Absalom.
Now that I have had the time to do some deep cleaning and a little take-down, I can see where the grips do not fit perfectly around the inside top of the frame grip. But they are nice grips that look good. Even though the gun is rough, the bore and cylinder is perfect which is odd considering. And, all the numbers match. Even though they have some hard miles, these old gals need a good home.

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Retired LEO
Retired SFC USAR

Got some Victory model letters back. Neither gun has U.S. Navy markings on it.

Actually, not really. Keep in mind that especially the US version of the Victory model was a secondary handgun for people whose job was not primarily to shoot at people. So specimen that show most of their wear from handling and being banged around and improper storage rather than shooting make perfect sense.

As it should be. From a point in, I believe, early 1943 on (can't get my Pate copy right now), the Navy acquired their guns through Army contracts, which meant the standard US PROPERTY GHD stamping.

On my list, the highest SN for a Navy Victory with the "U. S. NAVY" topstrap stamping is V2675xx. I also show a couple of lettered Navies which have slightly lower SNs which do not have the U. S. Navy property stamping on the topstrap. So I think the Navy stamping probably ceased around March 1943.

Long time lurker finally registered.

Serial # V39004
All numbers match except grips; which unfortunately are plastic.

At some point it was chromed I guess. 38 S&W stamp, not special. Barrel appears to be 3 3/4"

Thanks to all for the great info on this site.

Just picked up a 2", im thinking lend lease due to the british proof marks, but i do not have Property of the US stamped on there. any info on date or anything else ya'll can tell me would be great.

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The US property marking probably fell victim to the refinish. Your gun, which I'll assume was originally a British Service Revolver in .38 S&W and had a 5" barrel, was fully reparkerized, including trigger and hammer, which were case-hardened originally. Your gun would have shipped late 1942/early 1943. It was commercially proofed for re-sale after the war at Birmingham, as shown by the BNP stamp. The location of the British proofs is interesting, by the way; they are usually on the sides of the barrel, so this gun may have had its barrel cut before proofing.

The wooden stocks could be original; have you checked the inside surface of the right one for a possibly matching serial number stamp?

Also, what's the current caliber? Most likely, the chambers were converted for use with .38 Special ammo, easily tested by checking whether a live round will fully seat.

So overall, the gun has been extensively modified, seriously shrinking collector value, but on the other hand it is in much better shape than most of that kind we see here.

Thanks for the info, the grips do not match. i also added another photo.

.38 special drops in flush. So you think the barrel was cut and is not in the original length?

I know its hard to do with pics, but can you give a value estimate?

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The barrel was most definitely cut. Only .38 Special US Victory models were available with a 2" barrel in very limited numbers, and those barrels had the ejector rod lug in front, which your gun lacks (see below).

As for value, your gun has no realistic collector value due to the refinish and modifications, but as a nicely refinished shooter might be worth up to $300 to someone.

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Thanks again for the info.

$300 would be optimistic from a buyer who knew what it was.

Just picked up my first victory, have been wanting one for a very long time. I bought a crushed one at a gun show when I was a lil' kid but that doesn't really count.

Serial: V388742
4" barrel, 38 special, all numbers matching including grips, case hardened swivel, (flaming bomb) U.S. Property G.H.D. on the top strap. No other P or flaming bombs stamps of any kind, and what stamps are there look crisp, even on the top strap where it's lightly stamped.

This one looks like it was really nice before spending some serious time in the flap holster that I got with it. Finish is a pretty dark parkerizing with only slight freckling under the grips and on backstrap, case hardening on the hammer and trigger are nice, blued extractor plunger has some wear but recoil shield has almost none. Doesn't look like she's been shot much at all, only issue is the left grip panel has a dent and small chip on the bottom. Has dried grease in the nooks and crannies but pretty nice overall.
-Jesse

Sounds like a nice one. I think the serial number puts it in fall of 1943. Any chance you could post a picture or two?

Hello all.

Picked up my Victory quite a few years ago. Bought a few boxes of 38 S&W only to find out much later that it has been machined for 38 special. Haven't had an issue running either, the 38 S&W ammo is definitely a weaker round.

Any info on mine? Serial number: V 704310

5 inch barrel. Usual markings, don't see any British or other stampings. Stamped US Property GHD there is what looks like an '8' in front of the 'US'???. 'P' stamped in 4 locations. Also, marking in front and behind the S&W 38 CTG on the side of the barrel, not sure what those are. Unfortunately, it has the incorrect grips. Any guess on when it may have been shipped??

A nice example of a British Service Revolver from the second half of 1944, maybe September or thereabouts.

With no modifications other than the chamber conversion and the period-incorrect replacement stocks (the latter easily remedied), but no commercial post-war proofs or import marks, it's in better condition than most.
The "8" is likely the flaming bomb ordnance mark. The marks before and after the caliber stamping are a S&W thing and just decorative.

Thank you!

It's been interesting reading thru the 25 pages! Lots of interesting info.

The decorative marks on the barrel are called dingbats.

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

Hey guys,

Looking to get a little information on my revolver.

5"
.38 S&W
"United States Property" marked

Serial: 980672 no "V" mark

That would be a British Service Revolver, also called a "pre-Victory" model since it was produced shortly before the serials hit 999999 and the V prefix started in spring of 1942. The property mark identifies it as a gun shipped to Britain under the lend-lease program. For any further comments on markings, condition, post-war modifications etc., you'd need to post some photos.

Thanks for the information! Here is an album. My victory

Tell me more if you can :-)

Had a bunch of trouble finding a US victory holster for it (I do WWII reenacting), so I know why I guess haha

The US Victory model had a standard 4" barrel, while 5" was standard on the British Service Model, so that might be a problem with holster fit.

The photos are a bit dark and and not very well-lit, but it appears all original, at least externally unmolested and in pretty decent shape, and I don't see any of the post-war Btitish commercial proofs that decorate many of these either, and that's a plus for collectibility. Have you checked whether the chambers have been converted to fire .38 Special? If a live .38 Special round goes all the way in, they have, a common occurence, which was frequently done without marking the gun otherwise.

I believe you want Pre Victory revolver information for the data base (forgive me if that is not the case)....
S.N. 907306
.38 S&W not converted to .38 Special.
W.B., Flaming Bomb, and P Proof on Butt.
Stampings on Butt, Cylinder, and Barrel all match; cannot read grip stamp.
Underside of barrel importer stamped NA CO RIDGEFIELD NJ.
Made in USA and S&W logo on right side.
I find no other proof markings and no apparent polishing to remove them.
Finish is worn - originally bright blue?
(Sorry, pictures are not great and I do not have the gun in my possession at the moment.)

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That sounds like you found a relatively well-preserved and unmolested one of the type. Likely from about March/April 1942 or so. The finish at that time would no longer have been bright blue for a pre-Victory. They switched to "Black Magic" sometime in 1941, a more matte black/grey finish.
Everything sounds in order, and the importer appears to have found a relatively unobtrusive spot for his mark, rather than slapping it on the side of the frame like many did. The import mark itself indicates that the gun re-entered the country after 1968 (the GCA), and was not part of the big surplus wave that went mostly through Birmingham in the 1950s and left so many of these ex-BSR's with very prominent post-war commercial proofs.

Thank you for the information on the date of manufacture, importation, and finish, Absalom.

The importer (NA) is Navy Arms. The closest SN I show is 9084xx which shipped in 2/42.

Thanks for your usual precision on shipping dates, DWalt. I still marvel at how nicely these old revolvers were manufactured. Now I need to load up some .38 S&W and shoot this one.

Thank you for posting this information. I will make sure to have it incorporated into the Victory Model Database which my pal LWCmdr45 and I maintain.

There is a good chance that your revolver served with New Zealand forces. It falls in the correct range and Navy Arms is known to have been the primary importer of the NZ guns back to the USA many years ago. When you get the revolver in hand you might want to check for any markings just above the back strap. If it is a NZ gun then NZ property markings are likely located there.

From the Database I would estimate for you that it shipped from the factory in the January-March, 1942 time frame.

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

My lend lease serial 917188 is stamped with the same importer and is a New Zealand marked one it is in the data base already I think.

Mr. Flick - Thank you for the information about shipping date and possible New Zealand service for Pre-Victory 907306.
On another note, not sure if information about the following Victory was submitted for the data base or not:
S.N. 467279
4" Barrel
Marked "Bavaria Municipal Police" (as shown in SCSW)
.38 Special
Markings appear crisp, gun is blued. Original?

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A blued finish is not original, if that is what you are asking. V467279 would date it from late 1943.

The photos of your Bavaria Victory are very hard to interpret. On each, the lighting is different. Photo 4 looks definitely reblued, on some of the others it looks almost original. But as DWalt says, no original blue on a 1943 Victory.

Thank you DWalt and Absalom. It's apparently an old refinish.

There is pre Victory for sale on the forum. SN 998718. What can anyone tell me about this one?
Dave
SWCW #2778

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mr mom
Fire Chief, Retired