Victory data base

Victory info

Would a civilian or Defense Supply Comm. Victory be stamped with the Flying Bomb?

Can the Flying Bomb be the only stamping on the gun for it to be considered military property or dose it have to be stamped with inspectors initials or something like US property also?
 
DWalt said:
Yours was likely shipped in early 1944. As described it is highly likely a "Chopped and Bored" British .38/200 Victory. In the 1950s and 1960s, numerous surplus arms importers took .38/200s, had the barrels cut shorter and also had the .38 S&W chambers reamed to accept .38 S&W Special ammunition. Refinishing and replacement grips are also common. You should see if your chambers will completely accept .38 Special ammunition.

These have no collector value, but would be OK as shooters. Surprisingly, a couple of weeks ago, I personally saw one sold for $300, and the purchaser actually knew what he was buying. I wouldn't be interested in one at any price, but some people evidently do see value.
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I traded for this gun and think I made a pretty good deal. Mine will accept 38 special. I was under the impression that 38S&W ammo was ALREADY larger in diameter than 38 special. Were the 38S&W chambers short-bored with a shoulder that stopped the 38 special's longer case? Otherwise I don't understand the need to bore it out for 38 special. When I fired 38 special in it the cases swelled a lot. 38 S&W cases don't swell much. Thank you for the information.
 
mtrmn said:
I traded for this gun and think I made a pretty good deal. Mine will accept 38 special. I was under the impression that 38S&W ammo was ALREADY larger in diameter than 38 special. Were the 38S&W chambers short-bored with a shoulder that stopped the 38 special's longer case? Otherwise I don't understand the need to bore it out for 38 special. When I fired 38 special in it the cases swelled a lot. 38 S&W cases don't swell much. Thank you for the information.
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You are absolutely correct that the .38 S&W cartridge has a slightly larger diameter than the .38 S&W Special. .38 S&W chambers have a step in them at the case mouth position, and at that point the chamber diameter decreases enough to disallow the complete chambering of a .38 Special round. Therefore, the chamber must be bored more deeply to admit the longer .38 Special cartridge. Such modified chambers will then accept both cartridges. However, fired .38 Special cases will show a slight bulging due to their sloppy fit in the modified chamber. This is not considered unsafe, but some believe that split .38 Special cases may result. I have not found that to be the case.
 
DWalt said:
You are absolutely correct that the .38 S&W cartridge has a slightly larger diameter than the .38 S&W Special. .38 S&W chambers have a step in them at the case mouth position, and at that point the chamber diameter decreases enough to disallow the complete chambering of a .38 Special round. Therefore, the chamber must be bored more deeply to admit the longer .38 Special cartridge. Such modified chambers will then accept both cartridges. However, fired .38 Special cases will show a slight bulging due to their sloppy fit in the modified chamber. This is not considered unsafe, but some believe that split .38 Special cases may result. I have not found that to be the case.
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So I take it that one of these guns in otherwise good shape is safe to fire normal 38 special rounds. This clears up a lot of doubts I had. And since my barrel seems to be sized for 357 bullets. When I saw how the 38 special cases swelled, I stopped using the specials and went to 38S&W. Thank you for clearing this up.
 
In general, standard .38 Special cartridges should be OK. I wouldn't use +P loads. Even if a case splits (I've never had that happen in a Victory, but have in other revolvers), it won't do any damage. As these modifications were done in many places (none of them S&W) it might well be possible to find a rechambered Victory with really sloppy chambers that could be more prone to case splitting.

.38 S&W might group a little better than .38 Special, the downside being the availability difficulty and cost of .38 S&W ammunition.
 
Defense Contractor Victory for the data Base

Not sure if had entered my pistol in the data base or not. S/N is V16147. It has to proof or property marks. The only other marking is "261", which I'm assuming is a rack number for the contractor. Any info you experts have would be greatly appreciated. My best guess, based on the five digit S/N is 1942. The grips are checkered without medallion and are serialized/ matched to the pistol.

Additionally, I am considering another Vic, a Navy, S/N 120188. Again, any info is greatly appreciated.
Thx guys.
 

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Hello Caren:

Thanks for providing the data on your Victory. Where is the "261" number marked on the gun? Are there any butt markings besides the serial number? The stocks that were shipped on this revolver were originally the smooth walnut type.

From the Victory Model Database, which my pal LWCmdr45 and I administer, I can estimate for you that your Victory likely shipped in the June, 1942 time frame.

On V120188 am I correct in assuming that it has "U.S. NAVY" marked on the left topstrap? From the Database I can estimate for you that it likely shipped in the October, 1942 time frame.

I hope that information is helpful to you.
 
Thanks for responding so quickly. The "261" is on the blackstrap. Pic attached. I thought something was a bit unusual with the grips. The inside of the right grip has the serial number but as you can see, it looks like a home checkering job since the diamond is too small and is off center. My uneducated suspicion is that the right grip was the original smooth and at some point , it was checked. Can't seem to add more than one photo.
Oh, no other butt markings except the S/N. There is no lanyard loop, just a "button".
 

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Here's a pic of the right grip. Looks like a home made checker job to me.
 

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Here's a pic of Victory S/N 120188. I have not seen the pistol in person yet. Supposed to meet the owner in 2-3 days. I don't know what's on the top strap. Do you think this might have been one of the early 2 shipments to the Navy. One of 85,000.
Thanks for all your help.
 

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Hello again, Caren:

I agree with you that the stocks on V16147 appear to have been the recipient of some non-factory checkering efforts.

On V120188 I think you will find that the left top strap has the Navy markings I asked about. Additionally, it has the left frame Navy Property markings. Revolvers with that additional, post-factory marking are often referred to by Victory collectors as "Red Navy's" because the marking is often found filled with red paint. Those dual marked revolvers are considered a desirable Victory variation. The stocks seen in the photo are replacements.

Based on the serial number I would say that this revolver was a direct purchase by the Navy and not one handled by the Ordnance Dept. for the Navy. Thus, it is one of the earlier Navy guns.

HTH.
 
About all that can be said is that there are Navy property stampings known on Victories around that SN, but that does not mean this Victory is one of them. You'll just have to wait and see.
 
Thanks for confirming suspicions on147. Re 188, sounds pretty cool. I'm anxious to inspect it. I'm just concerned about potential counterfeits, since the early Navy's are rare. Hard to tell from the thumbnail pic but there appears to be a slight hue of red in the marking. Which begs a couple more questions. I'm a purist when it comes to classic cars and firearms. Seems like "reapplying" red to the side plate would NOT be the thing to do. I have seen some others where the red looks too perfect. Additionally, I'm considering putting on some smooth grips on both of them, but will hang on to the ones, as purchased. Will the smooth walnut grips enhance the value much? Is it worth adding them?
 
I recently acquired a Victory snubby. SN on the butt is V525261. SN on the cylinder (38 special fits) is 931707 (no V). The only military proof marks are on the underside of the 2.25" barrel appear to be British. The frame has the S&W logo on right side plate and "Made in USA" one line. Any info would be appreciated.
 
quinn said:
I recently acquired a Victory snubby. SN on the butt is V525261. SN on the cylinder (38 special fits) is 931707 (no V). The only military proof marks are on the underside of the 2.25" barrel appear to be British. The frame has the S&W logo on right side plate and "Made in USA" one line. Any info would be appreciated.
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Quinn, that sounds like a put-together gun. Does the barrel have a locking lug to tie down the front of the ejector rod?

V525251 should have a phosphate finish like parkerizing. The cylinder probably did not. If they are similarly finished now, the gun has probably been refinished.

The separately numbered parts were probably first parts of British service revolvers in .38/200 (.38 S&W). Is there a serial number stamped on the flat underside of the barrel.?
 
Sure sounds like you have a clone of Oswald's pistol. Odd that you just came across it now. Oswald had a mail order Victory that had been a Brit pistol with he barrel cut and re chambered from 38-200 to 38 Spl. Oswald used the pistol to kill Dallas police officer Tippett.
 
It is definitely a put together gun, and has been refinished. There is no locking lug for the ejector rod--it looks like a Colt. There is no number on the barrel but no military proof marks on the frame or cylinder. It is just an interesting gun. Maybe I'll do some pictures tomorrow.
 
I didn't have benefit of the pictures. Obviously not a very good clone. Just thought it a bit coincidental on the eve of the 50th anniversary of the JFK Assassination. That day sure burns in my memory even this I was just a few days shirt of my 15th birthday.
 
quinn said:
It is definitely a put together gun, and has been refinished. There is no locking lug for the ejector rod--it looks like a Colt. There is no number on the barrel but no military proof marks on the frame or cylinder. It is just an interesting gun. Maybe I'll do some pictures tomorrow.
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Most of the chopped Victories were the British .38/200s, and most also had the chambers reamed to accept .38 Special ammunition. At one time not so long ago, these were cheaper than dirt, and almost no one wanted them. From personal observation, they now seem to be selling in the $250-300 range. I cannot say why.
 
S&W Victory in Europe

I recently accuiered a S&W Victory, from a dealer in Kopenhagen.
It is rechambered in 38spl. and is allegedly a 1943 production.
It have seen service with the German police as there is markings on the back strap "P.G.Flbg" = "Politzei Group Flensburg". Number is: # V 728978.
I absolutely appreciate the model 10 Victory, as I shot it with my 158grns lead bullets and a moderate amount of the Vithavouri powder, it shots high. Got deasent groups offhand, but prints high! It got me thinking may be I should try some heavier 361 bullets replacing the 357 158grns. in this old warior?
 
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