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  #1751  
Old 05-05-2017, 04:54 PM
chriscokid chriscokid is offline
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Originally Posted by Absalom View Post
It does have the topstrap property mark, so disregard what I said; it will likely letter as a standard military-shipped Victory, statistically most likely to have gone to a Navy location.

As for value, artificial light makes condition a bit hard to judge, however it shows use wear, but appears all original, so if all serial numbers match, including the stocks, you are probably looking at a 400-500 dollar gun, maybe a bit more if it looks better in natural light.
Wow thanks... Now I can't wait to get the letter. My hope is that the gun left S&W and went straight to Louisiana. If that he the case the gun has never left this state.
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  #1752  
Old 05-05-2017, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Absalom View Post
That would be a British Service model, Lend-lease, from the late months of 1943.

If by "lower left grip frame" you mean the shoulder of the grip and there is an arrow inside the C, it would be a Canadian military property stamp. (See attached, somewhat mis-stamped example)

The stamp before the U.S. on the topstrap is a "flaming bomb" ordnance mark, standard in that location. See the third photo attached to post #1744 sbove.
Thanks much. The 'C' is on the side of the frame under the left grip. No arrow. thanks again.
really enjoy this thread. Worth publishing!!
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  #1753  
Old 05-07-2017, 11:46 AM
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V10455, no property marks, .38 Special.
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Old 05-09-2017, 06:34 PM
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Updated post #1703 with the letter. V16109 shipped on July 6, 1942 to Pantex Ordnance Company in St. Francis, TX.

Those boys make the BIG bomb now.
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  #1755  
Old 05-15-2017, 05:44 PM
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Default My New Victory Display Box

I recently changed my Victory display box to commemorate a pilot of Squadron VF-9 flying from the USS Essex.



U.S. Navy Pilot Wings (1/20 10k gold sterling silver) Made by N.S. Meyer, New York between 1936 and 1943.

WWII era authentic Naval officer Lieutenant sterling silver collar insignia.

WWII era Naval Officer sterling silver & 10k GF garrison cap emblem made by Hilborn & Hamburger.

Ribbon Holder, Ribbons and Stars includes:

Navy / Marine Corps Distinguished Service ribbon

Navy and Marine Corps Ribbon

Air Medal Ribbon with one gold star

WWII American Campaign 1941 - 1946 with 2 bronze stars

Asia Pacific 1941 - 1946 with 3 bronze stars

Authentic WWII Issue Bausch & Lomb AN6431 Glasses - Flying, Sun

WWII authentic 1943 Escape & Evasion Silk Map (Tokyo / Osaka)

WWII era Naval Officer’s khaki garrison cap.

WWII era Naval Pilot 1/20 10k GF garrison cap wings made by Hilborn & Hamburger.

Navy BuAero Spec. 88-W-800 Type 11 wrist watch made in 1943 by Waltham Watch Co. with authentic WWII cotton twill strap.

WWII US Navy Mark 8 Aircraft Navigation computer.

WWII authentic Catholic Military Missal prayer book .

WWII era wood bead Rosary.

WWII authentic airman escape kit brass pocket compass made by Waltham Watch Co.
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Old 05-15-2017, 06:40 PM
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Default Australian "Victory"

Hi.... I have a Smith & Wesson revolver registered (Canada) as a HE M&P Victory Model. Calibre .38 S&W, 5" barrel. Serial number 873469 on butt, cylinder, grips. Is it "OK" to refer to it as a Victory model? Would it have been sent to Australia ( Arrow-D-Arrow markings) or part of a larger British shipment?
Would appreciate any info.
Cheers.
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Old 05-15-2017, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Monty05 View Post
Hi.... I have a Smith & Wesson revolver registered (Canada) as a HE M&P Victory Model. Calibre .38 S&W, 5" barrel. Serial number 873469 on butt, cylinder, grips. Is it "OK" to refer to it as a Victory model? Would it have been sent to Australia ( Arrow-D-Arrow markings) or part of a larger British shipment?
Would appreciate any info.
Cheers.
Very interesting gun.

First of all, it is one of the, if not the earliest Lend-lease marked guns I have encountered. An 873-serial is quite low for the property stamp. It is not a Victory, as it was made before the V-prefix started, but collectors would refer to this as a pre-Victory. It is legitimately a variant of the M&P or (collector speak again) Model 1905, 4th change.

There was an early shipment directly to Australia around May 1941 (one member here has a gun that lettered to that shipment), but Lend-lease guns were sent from the factory to Hartford depot, and further distribution to overseas destinations is outside our documentable knowledge. Shipments may have gone to countries other than Britain directly, but I also have a pre-Victory with markings showing it first went to Britain and then to the Australians.

I'm not sure whether the D-arrow-D in this case is an Australian mark. All the D^D stamps I've seen on Aussie guns were applied post-war, in the 50s, on top of the Lithgow refinish and on the other side of the frame in a much smaller size. But Charles Pate says that the arrow mark on Australian guns may be found in several places, so anything is possible. This one has not been refinished and I see no other marks. I do not see the Canadian arrow-in-a-C either.

Do you know anything else about its history?
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Old 05-16-2017, 12:49 PM
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Thanks for the info Absalom. No interesting data from previous owner. He had had it for many years, acquired with some military medals which he collects. Did come, at that time, with paper wrapped ammo.
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Old 05-18-2017, 01:14 AM
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The lowest BSR SN I have listed as having a United States Property stamp is 881544. So it is very possible that 873469 also has the USP stamp. Very likely it shipped in November or December 1941.
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Old 05-18-2017, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by DWalt View Post
The lowest BSR SN I have listed as having a United States Property stamp is 881544. So it is very possible that 873469 also has the USP stamp. Very likely it shipped in November or December 1941.
My BSR s/n 877679 shipped in Dec 1941.

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  #1761  
Old 05-18-2017, 10:09 AM
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Default Victory Model

Just got hold of the S&W Victory Model in .38 S&W, Marked United States Property and GHD marked, five inch barrel # V 198958, any info on this is much appreciated. Ron
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  #1762  
Old 05-18-2017, 12:04 PM
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V 198958 would likely have shipped around early 1943. The closest I have on my list is V1980xx which shipped in 1/1943. The grips are not original, but that's actually good. The excellent 1930s-style grips on it are more scarce and desirable.

You might look at: http://www.coolgunsite.com/pistols/v...and_wesson.htm

Last edited by DWalt; 05-18-2017 at 12:07 PM.
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  #1763  
Old 05-19-2017, 10:46 AM
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thanks DWalt, this model does not have the hammer block safty "S" stamp mark on it...
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Old 05-19-2017, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by RPR View Post
.... this model does not have the hammer block safty "S" stamp mark on it...
It is very unlikely it would. We've discussed this here before; yours is a British Service model, and by the time the hammer block modification was actually implemented and the first guns with it shipped in January 1945, shipments of BSR's had almost or actually stopped and the remaining contracts cancelled. And no BSR's were included in the refurbishment contracts to be sent back and retrofitted.
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Old 05-19-2017, 01:32 PM
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The improved hammer drop safety was not incorporated into new production until very early 1945, and designated by the SV serial number prefix. And allegedly, no SV-series guns chambered for the .38 S&W were made up and shipped to the British. And relatively few of the SV-series revolvers in .38 Special were shipped to the US military. Of the approximately 45,000 SV-series Victories made, I have never seen any breakouts as to how they were distributed. Quite a few of the wartime SV-series frames remaining in inventory at war's end were made up into civilian M&P revolvers and sold during the first few months of 1946. It is possible that most of the SV-series revolvers made in 1945 may have been sold on the civilian market. Maybe someday we will know.

In a way, it is a little surprising that any Victory revolvers were being made in 1945. By mid-1944, the outcome of the war was no longer in doubt, and the Allies were up to their ears in weaponry and munitions of all kinds and didn't really have urgent needs for any more. Many defense plants all over the county were being closed or their production greatly curtailed, and some plants were even returning to peacetime production after V-E Day.

Last edited by DWalt; 05-19-2017 at 01:45 PM.
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Old 05-19-2017, 02:21 PM
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thanks for the info, going do a little range work with it...
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  #1767  
Old 05-20-2017, 02:04 PM
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Default British Service Revolver for the Database

Have a new addition for your database.

SN - V717633, late 1944?
Stamped on barrel and frame with "NOTENGLISHMADE"
Many proof marks including crossed swords, see photos
Came with WWII holster.
Curious about "police?" markings...see photos
Pol.Lun.410 on back of grip
POL.OLD.703 above trigger guard and crossed out
U.S. Property GHD stamped on frame above cylinder.
P stamp on frame, cylinder and barrel.
Many proof stamps on cylinder, NP, NB, JP??? Hard to read.

I would appreciate any information especially about the "police?" markings.
Action excellent. Locks up tight. Finish is original. Best BSR I have seen.
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  #1768  
Old 05-20-2017, 03:25 PM
chriscokid chriscokid is offline
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Originally Posted by chriscokid View Post
I received a model Victory with the sn. V 311661 all matching numbers (i haven't pulled the grips yet but I'm 99% sure they match also.. What I think I knows is its 1943 with a 4inch barrel. No other "special" markings. Any infomation you can give me about the gun would be great.
Although my grandfather served in wwIl, this gun belonged to my great grandfather. In the late 50s early 60s he killed himself with it and its been sitting in closests since and just recently it was given to me. I mailed off for a letter to S&W when should I expect a return letter?.... I'm not sure how to upload a picture on hear.
I got my letter today
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  #1769  
Old 05-20-2017, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by walkcubs View Post
.....
Curious about "police?" markings...see photos
Pol.Lun.410 on back of grip
POL.OLD.703 above trigger guard and crossed out
.....
We've seen this or one like it here before. British occupation zone of post-war Germany; at first issued to the police in Oldenburg, then in Lüneburg, both cities in Lower Saxony not too far from each other.

All other markings are consistent with a late-1944 shipped Lend-lease British Service Revolver.

What's interesting is that this gun was not surplussed out by the Germans, but apparently was handed back to the British and then taken out of service in Britain, as attested by the pre-1955 post-war commercial British proofs.
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Old 05-20-2017, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walkcubs View Post
Have a new addition for your database...... Came with WWII holster.
Lot of history there with that revolver.

BTW, your holster is an M2 made by Fink Leather Shops in Kansas City. It was designed to carry the S&W N-frame M1917 .45 revolver or the Colt M1917 .45 revolver, so it might be a little roomy for your K-frame BSR.

I should add that your revolver likely shipped from the factory in the November-December 1944 time frame. It almost certainly shipped to the Hartford Ordnance Depot in Springfield, Mass. and from there on to British or Empire forces.

Thanks for providing the data on your revolver for the Victory Database. I will make sure that it is added.
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Old 05-20-2017, 06:26 PM
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Default Thanx Ordnanceguy

I just happen to have a couple of 1917s that will fit the holster
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Old 05-23-2017, 10:42 PM
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Default 38 Special CTG Help

I am researching what I believe to be a Victory model 38 from my father-in-laws collection left in an estate when he passed away 2 years ago. In attempting to find information and potential value I found this site in my search and hope you can assist;

The gun is marked 38 S.&W. Special CTG on the right side of the barrel. The bottom of the grips has a V 385810. There is also a lanyard strap holder. Pictures attached.

Thanks

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  #1773  
Old 05-24-2017, 12:12 AM
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.....
The gun is marked 38 S.&W. Special CTG on the right side of the barrel. The bottom of the grips has a V 385810. There is also a lanyard strap holder.....
You identified the gun correctly. It is indeed a US version Victory model from 1943. The only question remaining is whether it was shipped to the military or a civilian destination. You don't mention any other markings, but a military-shipped gun would have a US PROPERTY G.H.D. stamp on the top strap above the cylinder.

In either case, the gun appears from the pictures to be in original condition, although the finish has blemishes in various places that look more like neglect than use wear, a minus when it comes to value. Whether all serial numbers on the butt, right grip, barrel, and cylinder match is also a factor. Overall, a wild guess might be 400 plus/minus.
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Old 05-24-2017, 08:25 AM
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Those Victories on my list having SNs close to V 385810 shipped in the 8-9/1943 period. As previously stated, the fact that it has a 4" barrel with a .38 Special caliber stamp rules it out as being a British service revolver, therefore, there are two main possibilities. If it has the U. S. PROPERTY topstrap stamping, it likely went to the U. S. Navy. If the topstrap is unstamped, it was a civilian revolver which was originally shipped to an essential civilian user (police, military defense contractor security guard, etc) for stateside service. Given its relatively good condition, more likely the latter. Here is a website which provides some explanation of Victory markings: http://www.coolgunsite.com/pistols/v...and_wesson.htm
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Old 06-05-2017, 07:24 PM
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This one seems to be a bit of an oddity. Serial number on the butt is V 42742. There might be an "R" in front of that. It has a blued finish (or at least what's left of one) and a 5 inch barrel. .38 special brass fits just fine.

The top strap is marked "UNITED STATES PROPERTY." It looks like there might be something next to it but it's pretty faint.

Serial on the barrel matches, and is marked ".38 SPL" on the right hand side. On the bottom of the barrel, it's marked "FCCSC(?) PENN N.J."

Cylinder arm is marked P 93191.

Cylinder is marked 948053.
From what I've read here, it seems unlikely that the blued finish is original, but it looks old as dirt. The grips definitely aren't original and don't have a serial number.

Can anyone give me more insight on to what I've got here? I'll attach some photos. Here's a link to the album if the photos don't attach correctly: Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet





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Old 06-06-2017, 04:29 AM
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Hello all, first post here. I just acquired my first Victory model, a .38 Special in nice and apparently original condition, with lanyard loop. Original grips as far as I can tell. I picked it up at a small gun show last weekend for $350.
Serial # V 468370 matches on butt, barrel, and cylinder.
20654 stamped on crane and crane recess. "Q4" also stamped in crane recess.
Flaming bomb mark in front of the V on the underside of the butt.
No markings on top strap.
I might be able to post pics later. Can anyone tell me about this pistol? Thanks!

Last edited by Capta; 06-06-2017 at 04:36 AM.
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Old 06-06-2017, 07:30 AM
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Welcome to the Forum.

The serial number should be stamped on the inside of the right grip. Others will be along soon to provide a shipping date.
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Old 06-06-2017, 08:57 AM
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Hello all, first post here. I just acquired my first Victory model, a .38 Special in nice and apparently original condition, with lanyard loop. Original grips as far as I can tell. I picked it up at a small gun show last weekend for $350.
Serial # V 468370 matches on butt, barrel, and cylinder.
20654 stamped on crane and crane recess. "Q4" also stamped in crane recess.
Flaming bomb mark in front of the V on the underside of the butt.
No markings on top strap.
I might be able to post pics later. Can anyone tell me about this pistol? Thanks!
That was a good price for the condition you describe, especially if the stocks match as Muley suggested you verify.

It likely shipped in late 1943. The absence of a topstrap marking indicates this was a gun that shipped to a stateside end user on a contract through the Defense Supplies Corporation, a public entity controlling wartime distribution. It could have gone to a police agency or a defense contractor for plant security. Another, statistically less likely possible recipient would be the US Maritime Commission, which equipped non-military shipping. A history letter would tell you.
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Old 06-06-2017, 12:24 PM
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Hi everyone, first post here as well. I picked up this Victory a couple weeks ago for $200, and I'm hoping you guys can tell me a little bit about its origins. After looking through this thread for a while, it seems to be a bit of an oddball.

It's a .38 special, 5 inch barrel, with what looks to be the remains of a blued finish. From what I've gathered, it's probably not original, but it certainly looks old. It has the following markings:

"V 42742" on the butt, possibly preceded by an "R."

"V 42742" on the underside of the barrel.

"UNITED STATES PROPERTY" on the topstrap, with maybe a faint mark to the right.

"P 93191" on the inside of the frame in front of the cylinder.

".38 SPL" on the right side of the barrel.

"948053" on the cylinder.

"57087" on the cylinder arm.

The grips are not serialized, and, given their condition, I image they're replacements.

The right side of the gun appears to be the victim of some sort of aggressive solvent, there's no finish and some light pitting. The S&W crest is almost completely gone.

Any information on this gun would be greatly appreciated! I'm especially curious about the caliber markings, as they seem a bit out of the ordinary. .38 special cases fit just fine.

I've attached some images, if for whatever reason that doesn't work, I've uploaded an album here.
















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Old 06-06-2017, 12:36 PM
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For sure, the frame is a mid-1942 Victory. The cylinder is not original. Probably an earlier cylinder chambered in .38 Special. There is a hand-stamped .38 SPL on the barrel, leads me to believe the barrel was originally marked .38 S&W CTG (the British military cartridge). Exactly what else is stamped on the barrel? The extractor rod knob also looks odd. Can you provide a better picture?

Last edited by DWalt; 06-06-2017 at 12:42 PM.
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Old 06-06-2017, 01:45 PM
Low Speed High Drag Low Speed High Drag is offline
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Originally Posted by DWalt View Post
For sure, the frame is a mid-1942 Victory. The cylinder is not original. Probably an earlier cylinder chambered in .38 Special. There is a hand-stamped .38 SPL on the barrel, leads me to believe the barrel was originally marked .38 S&W CTG (the British military cartridge). Exactly what else is stamped on the barrel? The extractor rod knob also looks odd. Can you provide a better picture?
Thanks for the info, that's cool stuff to know! Do you think the finish is original? I suppose if the cylinder isn't original, it probably isn't. It needs to be refinished regardless.

Also, I know people have said that shooting .38 special in converted BSR's can lead to split or ruptured cases, will this problem be lessened by the .38 special cylinder on my gun?

The barrel is marked with what looks like "FCCSA PENN N.J." on the bottom, but I suspect that's an importer's mark. The right side of the barrel with the caliber marking is otherwise bare.


I've got a few more photos I can share, but if they don't answer your question I'll have to wait until I get home later tonight to take more.





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Old 06-06-2017, 05:25 PM
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Definitely a post-WWII import as it has the importer's stamp - required after 1968 by GCA-68. Yours started life as a British service revolver (BSR) chambered in .38 S&W. At some later time, someone replaced the cylinder with one which was probably chambered in .38 Special. Many similar BSR imports had the original chambers reamed out to accept .38 S&W Special ammunition. You can often tell if that happened by looking down the chambers. If you can see what looks like two rings (actually shoulders), that's what happened.
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FWIW, I have a fairly extensive list of gun importer stamps. FCCSA PENN NJ is not among them, so I cannot say which one it is/was. A quick search on the internet revealed several other guns with the same import stamp, but without information as to what it stood for. Maybe someone reading this will know.

Last edited by DWalt; 06-06-2017 at 05:39 PM.
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Old 06-06-2017, 05:51 PM
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.....
The barrel is marked with what looks like "FCCSA PENN N.J." on the bottom, but I suspect that's an importer's mark....
Definitely, but apparently a rare one, unless we're misreading some letter, which I don't believe. Some searching produced exactly one other mention of an identical FCCSA PENN N.J. stamping on a French MAB pistol. No indication what it stands for, but likely a company located in Pennsylvania and New Jersey .
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Old 06-06-2017, 06:16 PM
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Definitely, but apparently a rare one, unless we're misreading some letter, which I don't believe. Some searching produced exactly one other mention of an identical FCCSA PENN N.J. stamping on a French MAB pistol. No indication what it stands for, but likely a company located in Pennsylvania and New Jersey .
Or in Pennsauken NJ. I also found mention of a Swedish AG42b rifle with the same import marking.

Last edited by DWalt; 06-06-2017 at 06:18 PM.
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Old 06-06-2017, 06:28 PM
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Or in Pennsauken NJ. I also found mention of a Swedish AG42b rifle with the same import marking.
Bingo! Now we're getting somewhere. It is actually ESSCA, which was supposedly the import mark of the Cross Roads Gun Shop in Pennsauken. Someone on the Luger Forum figured that out.
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Old 06-07-2017, 02:52 PM
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That was a good price for the condition you describe, especially if the stocks match as Muley suggested you verify.

It likely shipped in late 1943. The absence of a topstrap marking indicates this was a gun that shipped to a stateside end user on a contract through the Defense Supplies Corporation, a public entity controlling wartime distribution. It could have gone to a police agency or a defense contractor for plant security. Another, statistically less likely possible recipient would be the US Maritime Commission, which equipped non-military shipping. A history letter would tell you.
I checked the grip and it does not have a serial number or anything else stamped on the underside. I'm still very pleased with it, as the finish is otherwise good with just a little normal wear.
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Old 06-08-2017, 08:39 PM
dogmandan dogmandan is offline
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As my first post on this forum, I have a with Serial # 4434XX. Its all original, looks like its never been shot basically. Excellent condition. Do you have any information on this from your database?
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Old 06-08-2017, 09:02 PM
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Does it have a V prefix to the SN? That would date its probable shipment to around late 1943. Here is some Victory information you might find interesting: http://www.coolgunsite.com/pistols/v...and_wesson.htm
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Old 06-08-2017, 09:30 PM
Muley Gil Muley Gil is offline
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As my first post on this forum, I have a with Serial # 4434XX. Its all original, looks like its never been shot basically. Excellent condition. Do you have any information on this from your database?
Welcome to the Forum.

Do you have a Victory model, with the "V" prefix to the serial number that is located on the butt?

Need to know barrel length, caliber markings, finish, etc. BTW, the barrel is measured from the front of the cylinder to the end of the barrel. Generally, 4" Victories are chambered in .38 special and 5" Victories are chambered in .38 S&W.

Pictures are VERY helpful.
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Old 06-09-2017, 11:33 AM
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Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass, Dan!
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Old 06-11-2017, 07:22 PM
dogmandan dogmandan is offline
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I'm hoping this isn't a double post as my buddy is inquiring on the same information... It's really his pistol but we're both curious if it's history. Serial 443478, I was told was probably made in about October '43. Stamped with the flaming bomb and GHD mark.
It's a great gun, I know now not to let him shoot 38+P out of it... Whoops.
Anyone got any history?
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Old 06-11-2017, 08:43 PM
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I'm hoping this isn't a double post as my buddy is inquiring on the same information... It's really his pistol but we're both curious if it's history. Serial 443478, I was told was probably made in about October '43. Stamped with the flaming bomb and GHD mark.
It's a great gun, I know now not to let him shoot 38+P out of it... Whoops.
Anyone got any history?
We got that one covered here:

Need help to identify old S&W
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Old 06-15-2017, 12:26 PM
dogmandan dogmandan is offline
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Yup, that'd be it!
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Old 06-23-2017, 03:17 PM
Sugar River Sugar River is offline
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Here's a Navy marked Victory I bought when there was a bunch of them on the market in 1994 for $125, V90442.
All numbers match except the grips.
It's no problem to keep a soda can bouncing at 25 yds with 125 gr Nyclads!






Last edited by Sugar River; 06-23-2017 at 03:18 PM.
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