Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1901  
Old 07-04-2018, 10:39 AM
Absalom's Avatar
Absalom Absalom is online now
SWCA Member
Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 6,613
Likes: 3,829
Liked 10,071 Times in 3,666 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by larymark View Post
New to forum, issued a 38 spl revolver in 1966 at Malstrom AFB MT.
.........
The distribution of the victory models with serial numbers very close to each other going to different places, army, navy, allies, and used for security at many different facilities here in US.
Example:

Serial # 5004441 going to Army marked property of US
5004330 going to Navy marked Navy
5005998 going to factory in US for security purposes

Was distribution random with no real sequence followed?
......
Welcome to the forum.

Your 1960s Air Force issue could have been a Model 15 (recognizable by adjustable sights), which was an official issue AF revolver of the time, but according to many eye-witnesses, including members here, the Victory was still in service and issued at that time also.

As for Victory distribution, it wasn’t “random”, but shipment occurred in batches, sometimes small ones of 10 or 25, sometimes 500 guns. They filled orders as assigned by the War Productions Board. But since they produced many thousands per month, serials “close to each other” is really a relative term.
Reply With Quote
  #1902  
Old 07-13-2018, 02:58 PM
cattleman77 cattleman77 is offline
Member
Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base  
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default S&W Victory Question

I recently acquired Victory V676425. It has a 5" barrel chambered for .38SW. It has US Property on the top strap With the GHD inspector initials. It has no import markings, but does have stamped on the left side: Pol. Br. with L.u.S. underneath. Does anyone know what these initials stand for? I will attempt to attach a pic.

Thanks, Cattleman77
Attached Thumbnails
Victory data base-dsc01185-jpg  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #1903  
Old 07-13-2018, 03:32 PM
Absalom's Avatar
Absalom Absalom is online now
SWCA Member
Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 6,613
Likes: 3,829
Liked 10,071 Times in 3,666 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cattleman77 View Post
I recently acquired Victory V676425. It has a 5" barrel chambered for .38SW. It has US Property on the top strap With the GHD inspector initials. It has no import markings, but does have stamped on the left side: Pol. Br. with L.u.S. underneath. Does anyone know what these initials stand for?...
Your gun was originally made for Lend-lease shipment to Britain in the summer of 1944.

After the war, it was issued by occupation authorities to the local German police in Bremen. Pol. Br. stands for Polizei Bremen. L.u.S. is most likely Land- und Stadtpolizei (state and city police), as Bremen was a city state.

After being surplused out or handed back by the Germans, some of these ended up for sale at rod and gun clubs at US bases. Because Bremen was a US enclave in the British zone, that may be how this gun ended up back in the US without any further markings.

Last edited by Absalom; 07-13-2018 at 03:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #1904  
Old 07-13-2018, 05:03 PM
DWalt's Avatar
DWalt DWalt is offline
Member
Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas
Posts: 22,457
Likes: 2
Liked 13,262 Times in 7,401 Posts
Default

There was an article on the German and Austrian occupation police Victories in the American Rifleman a couple of years ago, it's probably still available on the NRA website. On my list is V6767xx (.38 Special) which shipped on 9/9/44.

Last edited by DWalt; 07-13-2018 at 05:06 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #1905  
Old 07-13-2018, 05:45 PM
cattleman77 cattleman77 is offline
Member
Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base  
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

Thanks Absalom & DWalt. Your replies are very helpful!

Cattleman77
Reply With Quote
  #1906  
Old 08-06-2018, 03:27 PM
wildcat83 wildcat83 is offline
Member
Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base  
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

Last year I bought a S&W Victory model marked ".38 S&W Special CTG" on right side of barrel, "U.S. Property G.H.D." on left side of top strap. S/N is V391812, and is matching on grip frame, barrel, cylinder, and extractor star; Number on inside of right grip is about 100,000 higher number; 4" barrel; finish appears to be parkerized but might be the gray fiinish--hard to tell. Question--are the grips attached likely what the original grips would have been? Also, thought I had some kind of issue, as a .38 Special round would only go into cylinder about 3/4" of the way; closer inspection I found snap rings about 3/8" wide snapped into each chamber. I was able to push these out using a .30 carbine shell and grabbed them with needle nose pliers (see photo)--what would these have been used for?

Thanks for any info on this piece of history.





Last edited by wildcat83; 08-06-2018 at 04:08 PM. Reason: Editing text
Reply With Quote
  #1907  
Old 08-06-2018, 03:40 PM
wildcat83 wildcat83 is offline
Member
Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base  
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

Adding photos
Attached Thumbnails
Victory data base-img_3003-jpg   Victory data base-img_e2999-jpg   Victory data base-img_e2995-jpg   Victory data base-img_e2996-jpg   Victory data base-img_0549-jpg  

Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #1908  
Old 08-06-2018, 04:42 PM
DWalt's Avatar
DWalt DWalt is offline
Member
Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas
Posts: 22,457
Likes: 2
Liked 13,262 Times in 7,401 Posts
Default

The grips are far newer than the gun, they are from sometime after 1969. V391812 would have shipped around September 1943. I have no idea what those rings are for, but without the rings, it is possible that your cylinder is for the .38 S&W caliber if a .38 Special cartridge cannot be inserted. But I don't know how that would be if the SNs match.

Last edited by DWalt; 08-06-2018 at 04:45 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #1909  
Old 08-06-2018, 05:05 PM
wildcat83 wildcat83 is offline
Member
Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base  
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

You ask if it is possible the cylinder is actually for a .38 S&W--this is exactly what I wondered until I realized the SN on it matched the others on the gun; that's when I started looking more closely at the interior of the chambers and noticed the rings. .38 Special rounds load nicely now that the rings have been removed. The grips have been on there a long time as there are faint lines on the frame matching the curve of the top of the grips; regardless, I'll look for original grips so the gun is correct. I have a Model 10-5, which is not identical to the Victory but mighty close--the grips on the Victory I'm relatively certain are from a Model 10.

Thank you for the info--
Reply With Quote
  #1910  
Old 08-06-2018, 05:10 PM
Absalom's Avatar
Absalom Absalom is online now
SWCA Member
Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 6,613
Likes: 3,829
Liked 10,071 Times in 3,666 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt View Post
... I have no idea what those rings are for, but without the rings, it is possible that your cylinder is for the .38 S&W caliber if a .38 Special cartridge cannot be inserted. But I don't know how that would be if the SNs match.
That is indeed odd. Could someone have tried to make the gun usable for some .38-diametered rimless shorter pistol cartridge by creating an artificial shoulder in the chambers? Just fishing here
Reply With Quote
  #1911  
Old 08-06-2018, 05:18 PM
wildcat83 wildcat83 is offline
Member
Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base  
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

BTW--what would you call the finish on this gun--is it parkerized?
Reply With Quote
  #1912  
Old 08-06-2018, 05:55 PM
Wiregrassguy's Avatar
Wiregrassguy Wiregrassguy is online now
SWCA Member
Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base  
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Ashford, AL
Posts: 4,026
Likes: 15,693
Liked 4,167 Times in 1,546 Posts
Default

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass! It appears to be the original phosphate finish flavor that S&W was producing at that time.
__________________
Guy
SWCA #2629 | SWHF #474
Reply With Quote
  #1913  
Old 08-06-2018, 06:09 PM
Absalom's Avatar
Absalom Absalom is online now
SWCA Member
Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 6,613
Likes: 3,829
Liked 10,071 Times in 3,666 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcat83 View Post
BTW--what would you call the finish on this gun--is it parkerized?
The term used throughout the war is “sandblast Black Magic”. Invoices I’ve seen just say “sandblast”. Newly applied it looks a lot like parkerizing, but since it is not a phosphate finish, with use it wears and develops a grey, sometimes greenish sheen distinct from actual parkerizing, like on your gun.

These finishes generally don’t photograph well. The attached photo shows a Victory next to a Colt Commando with true “Parkerizing” (Parco-Lubrite from the Parker Rust-Proof Co.). The difference is noticeable despite less than perfect lighting.
Attached Thumbnails
Victory data base-58798759-0537-4ff5-93f5-c791ee03a46a-jpg  

Last edited by Absalom; 08-06-2018 at 06:11 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #1914  
Old 08-06-2018, 07:38 PM
Muley Gil Muley Gil is online now
US Veteran
Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base  
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The SW Va Blue Ridge
Posts: 10,739
Likes: 29,474
Liked 8,964 Times in 3,558 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcat83 View Post
Last year I bought a S&W Victory model marked ".38 S&W Special CTG" on right side of barrel, "U.S. Property G.H.D." on left side of top strap. S/N is V391812, and is matching on grip frame, barrel, cylinder, and extractor star; Number on inside of right grip is about 100,000 higher number; 4" barrel; finish appears to be parkerized but might be the gray fiinish--hard to tell. Question--are the grips attached likely what the original grips would have been? Also, thought I had some kind of issue, as a .38 Special round would only go into cylinder about 3/4" of the way; closer inspection I found snap rings about 3/8" wide snapped into each chamber. I was able to push these out using a .30 carbine shell and grabbed them with needle nose pliers (see photo)--what would these have been used for?

Thanks for any info on this piece of history.




9mm perhaps?
__________________
John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!
Reply With Quote
  #1915  
Old 08-06-2018, 07:56 PM
DWalt's Avatar
DWalt DWalt is offline
Member
Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas
Posts: 22,457
Likes: 2
Liked 13,262 Times in 7,401 Posts
Default

9mm may fit into a .38 S&W chamber, but generally they will not go in to a .38 Special chamber far enough to close the cylinder.
Reply With Quote
  #1916  
Old 08-06-2018, 08:15 PM
KEN L's Avatar
KEN L KEN L is offline
SWCA Member
Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base  
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: N GA
Posts: 3,606
Likes: 178
Liked 2,586 Times in 1,110 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcat83 View Post
BTW--what would you call the finish on this gun--is it parkerized?
It is Smith's version of parkerizing, they called a "military midnight black finish".
Reply With Quote
  #1917  
Old 08-06-2018, 09:46 PM
Absalom's Avatar
Absalom Absalom is online now
SWCA Member
Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 6,613
Likes: 3,829
Liked 10,071 Times in 3,666 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KEN L View Post
It is Smith's version of parkerizing, they called a "military midnight black finish".
That’s what we used to think. You should read Roy’s “Voices from the Past” in the journal, the summer 2017 edition for the Williams notes and the summer 2018 edition for the Ordnance report. That is what is documented, and that is what we know. And if you read the “collector tip” on p. 166 of the SCSW, 4th ed., you’ll notice the change in terminology there, too.
Reply With Quote
  #1918  
Old 08-07-2018, 07:40 PM
s3dcor's Avatar
s3dcor s3dcor is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 396
Likes: 110
Liked 367 Times in 66 Posts
Default

Would like info on the following Victory revolver.

Its in .38/200 with a 5" barrel, parkerized finish, marked "US Property GHD" on the top strap, the serial number is V755218. Has BP marks on cylinder and proof marks on left rear of barrel.

All the finish is gone but it is solid. Is it worth $299?
Reply With Quote
  #1919  
Old 08-07-2018, 07:48 PM
DWalt's Avatar
DWalt DWalt is offline
Member
Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas
Posts: 22,457
Likes: 2
Liked 13,262 Times in 7,401 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by s3dcor View Post
Would like info on the following Victory revolver.

Its in .38/200 with a 5" barrel, parkerized finish, marked "US Property GHD" on the top strap, the serial number is V755218. Has BP marks on cylinder and proof marks on left rear of barrel.

All the finish is gone but it is solid. Is it worth $299?
Assuming it is functional, yes. It is a Lend-Lease British Service Revolver (BSR). The serial number suggests that it was probably shipped in early 1945. It would have been one of the very last BSRs made.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #1920  
Old 08-07-2018, 08:12 PM
s3dcor's Avatar
s3dcor s3dcor is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 396
Likes: 110
Liked 367 Times in 66 Posts
Default

Thanks Dwalt, you are the man.
Reply With Quote
  #1921  
Old 08-08-2018, 10:23 PM
s3dcor's Avatar
s3dcor s3dcor is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 396
Likes: 110
Liked 367 Times in 66 Posts
Default

So I purchased this Victory today for $250. I did a complete disassembly and cleaning. It is tight and shows no wear. The finish has faded, I understand that is quite common. It has not been modified in any way, still a .38 S&W. I show below the NP, BV and SP flaming bomb marks. It also has a mark, crossed scepters with an E left and S right and a 1 below. I have no idea what SP or the crossed scepters mean. All numbers match except the grips which have an earlier 5 digit serial. I can tell that it had a large set of grips on it at one time as the finish is darker in that area. SN: V755218 Still a nice gun even with the poor finish. If you have any more info I will appreciate your response.

I just figured out that the sideplate has the hammer block on it and I did not know what it was. There is no "S" on the butt. Does that add up to the sn's for the hammer block change?
Attached Thumbnails
Victory data base-v3-jpg  

Last edited by s3dcor; 08-08-2018 at 11:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #1922  
Old 08-08-2018, 10:41 PM
Absalom's Avatar
Absalom Absalom is online now
SWCA Member
Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 6,613
Likes: 3,829
Liked 10,071 Times in 3,666 Posts
Default

Your gun was surplused out relatively early for a British Service model.

The markings on the gun’s barrel you describe and that are visible in the picture are the old style of Birmingham commercial proofs under the Rule of 1925, which was replaced by the Rule of 1955 in that year.

Most ex-BSR’s were not proofed in Birmingham until the later 1950’s and have the post-1955 style of markings.

The crossed sceptres are a so-called viewmark. E is 1954. I think you must be misreading the B for Birmingham as an S, since an S is not a thing in that position. The 1 is the inspector’s rank.

On the barrel proofs, those are not “flaming bombs”, but crowns over letters in a circle
They should be BV (Viewmark), BP (Definite proof), NP (Nitro proof).

Last edited by Absalom; 08-08-2018 at 10:53 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #1923  
Old 08-10-2018, 11:22 PM
Absalom's Avatar
Absalom Absalom is online now
SWCA Member
Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 6,613
Likes: 3,829
Liked 10,071 Times in 3,666 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by s3dcor View Post
....
I just figured out that the sideplate has the hammer block on it and I did not know what it was. There is no "S" on the butt. Does that add up to the sn's for the hammer block change?
I’m not quite sure what you mean by this addendum. Does the sideplate have the S? That would be highly unusual. The serial is too low for the gun to have been produced with the new hammerblock (start around V769-), and to our knowledge no British Service models were produced with or later converted to the upgrade.
Reply With Quote
  #1924  
Old 08-11-2018, 12:54 PM
s3dcor's Avatar
s3dcor s3dcor is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 396
Likes: 110
Liked 367 Times in 66 Posts
Default

My BSR has a sideplate with the hammer block safety on it. The assembly numbers are the same ones as on the crane and frame. The Sn is V755218. If the sideplate was replaced it would not likely have the assembly numbers in it or they would not match. That leads me to believe that it came from the factory that way. There is no "S" anywhere.

Thanks for your input. I like to learn all I can about these. Here is a pic of my other one an early one marked RCAF and in excellent condition.
Attached Thumbnails
Victory data base-v4-jpg   Victory data base-m-p-jpg  

Last edited by s3dcor; 08-11-2018 at 12:58 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #1925  
Old 08-14-2018, 04:57 PM
Vbk76's Avatar
Vbk76 Vbk76 is online now
SWCA Member
Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base  
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Virginia
Posts: 176
Likes: 31
Liked 482 Times in 88 Posts
Default

Picked up today and adding to the database
Came with no side plate no grips
Spare fitted and grips put on

All other parts match
Says U S Property GHD on top strap
Assorted British proofs
Cylinder NOT reamed for special, it’s still only .38 S&W
Serial V 569032

Last edited by Vbk76; 08-14-2018 at 07:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #1926  
Old 08-15-2018, 05:17 AM
codenamedave's Avatar
codenamedave codenamedave is offline
Member
Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base Victory data base  
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: East of Jefferson
Posts: 623
Likes: 661
Liked 1,128 Times in 375 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by s3dcor View Post
My BSR has a sideplate with the hammer block safety on it. The assembly numbers are the same ones as on the crane and frame. The Sn is V755218. If the sideplate was replaced it would not likely have the assembly numbers in it or they would not match. That leads me to believe that it came from the factory that way. There is no "S" anywhere.
Sounds like there's still an implied question in your comments. Posts by you and Absalom seem to asking & answering without a direct train.

Yes.

Yes the sideplate mounted hammer block is correct, for the serial number and for being a BSR. Yes, not having an "S" is correct since it hasn't been converted to the newer style block, which as far as we know has never been done to a BSR. And so yes, it would've come from the factory as it sits.
__________________
TEAM DNF
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
Reply

Tags
380, cartridge, certificate, commercial, gunsmith, k frame, leather, military, model 10, parkerized, postwar, scope, sideplate, sig arms, smith and wesson, smith-wessonforum.com, springfield, stag, swca, trademark, united states property, victory, walnut, wondersight, wwii

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Three more for the Victory Data Base Silver King S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 8 05-07-2012 09:06 PM
Three more for the Victory Data Base Silver King S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 3 05-06-2012 04:40 PM
Another Victory for the Data base cquickel S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 1 05-12-2010 06:38 PM
Victory for the data base Barn Boy S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 4 04-10-2010 03:03 PM
New Victory For Data Base delta-419 S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 4 06-10-2008 08:43 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:55 PM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.42 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
© S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2018
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)