I recently received a Victory pistol with SN V769527. The gun has BNP markings in between barrel and cylinder and all around the cylinder. Right by the trigger is markings with swords and mb letters. The gun has been refinished and the S&W markings on right hand side almost not visible. The gun caliber has been changed to .22 magnum. The barrel length is 6 1/4". Not sure what the original caliber was. What would a pistol like this be valued at? Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you

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First off, welcome to the forum.

A very late Victory that has been extensively modified. One just like this was the topic of the following thread:

Fathers S&W , CAN ANYONE TELL ME ABOUT IT.

I'd judge that these were commercial conversions, done in the U.K. in the 1950's or 60's and then exported. A poor man's Model 48. Value largely dependent on how well it shoots.

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

Add V 745416 # 38 SW # "special" Cogswell & Harrison Conversion. Shipped Jan. 1945

What do I have here, I Believe its a choped S&W Victory model S/N V372600. When was it made and dose it shoot? .38S&W or
.38 Special? Is it safe to shoot this gun and what is its value.
I may receive this gun as a trade. Thanks

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This will certainly be added to the database, but there's nothing especially desirable here. It looks to be one of the slipshod conversions common to the 1950's and early 60's. Refinshed, with a shortened barrel sans provision for locking in the ejector rod. Another possible shortcoming is if it was originally in .38 S&W caliber and the cylinder was simply reamed out to accept .38 Special. If both rounds will chamber, I'd definitely give this one a pass.

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

Charlie and others,

I just got Victory # V223777 at a small show this morning so please put it in the data base if it isn't already.

It is marked "U.S. NAVY" on the top strap but also has a CD in a triangle on the left side beneath the cylinder release. Excellent overall condition...missing only the lanyard ring. The only other Civil Defense marked guns that I have seen have the words written out as the seen in the Pate book.

I appreciate any insight anyone might have on it.

Bob

Hi Bob:

Sounds like a neat gun and a good find. It was not in the Database, but is now.

The Victory Database shows quite a few CD or Civil Defense marked guns. Only one is recorded as having the CD within a triangle and that entry indicates that it was an electro-pencil marking. Serial is V231480 and it is also Navy marked. Is your example marked with a die or by electro-pencil method?

Thanks for the data contribution. Congrats on a finding another interesting example.

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Charlie,

The TriangleCD was done with an electro-pencil. However, I believe that a template was used instead of just free hand. (i.e. the triangle is a perfect equilateral and the curves of the CD are perfect halves of a circle. There is a slight over scribe of one side of the triangle as though the template slipped slightly and was repositioned).

It would be interesting to know whether the two different types of Civil Defense markings (the words and the logo) represent different places or a different time frame. My guess is that the free hand printing either preceded the logo template or the logo was done in a locale that was much more organized.

Bob

Charlie,

Here is the CD logo and other markings on my "new" Victory.

Bob

I have 3 "Victories" for your data base - well sort of Victorys anyway. Early one is 6" barrel, blued, 38 S&W, lettered, shipped to the British Purchasing Commission in NY #723566 (no V). Number two is a Navy lettered 38 Special, traditional parkerized, 4" etc. #V184422. The last is another with no V but looks like the standard Lend/Lease 38 S&W with a 5" barrel. However it looks unissued, grips match, and is marked US Propery - serial 995163. I am guessing late production never "lent/Leased".

On the barrel right side there is 38 smith&wesson CTG

left side of barrel there is smith & wesson a crown with the letters BNP underneath i, then a dot then 38 then another dot followed by 767' and underneath that is 31/2 Tons, the s/n is on the cylinder face and the metal plate on the butt of the gun. Also on the but of the gun is the letter P , the ordnance insignia (circle with flame on top). There is also what I believe to be a unit designation just above the back part of the trigger guard on the left side of the gun. Best way to describe it is to draw a X on a piece of paper and in the open spaces made by the X place this info in left side open dpace "H", right side open space "B" and in the bottom open space place the number 2.
Also top strap left side says United States Property.
s/n V124...

Brigham33:

Thanks for posting your data for inclusion in the Victory Model Database. A few questions, please.

On your 723566 can you give me the exact shipping date as stated on your factory letter? On V184422 you mentioned "Navy lettered". By that I am guessing that you have a factory letter showing shipment to the Navy. Can you tell us the exact shipping date and Navy location this one shipped to? Finally on your 995163 are the left top strap markings "US Property" or "United States Property"?

Again, you have our appreciation for supplying this new information to the Database.

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

They are commercial British proof marks consistent with the .38 S&W cartridge and were applied in 1957.

Happy to help. 723566 was shipped on April 4th, 1941. V184422 was Shipped December 17, 1942 to the USN, Oakland CA. Finally 995163, has "United States Property" on the top strap in much finer markings that usual (yes, it has the quotes as well). It also has what looks to be a box'd WB inspection mark and an small ordinance bomb mark & P on the butt opposite the serial #. I've requested a letter on it.... From my very limited experience, it seemed unusual to me. Rick

So my Victory was still overseas in the mid to late 50's. Wonder how it found its way back to the states. Also has anyone found unit designations marked on their weapons.

Brigham33/Rick:

Thanks for providing the additional information for the Database. You have some nice guns there.

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

I have 2 Victory's. The first is V75136, 4in barrel, nothing on the top strap, 38 Special and all matching including the grips. No import marks

#2 is V601144. I have not seen one like this and was wondering if someone might have some info they would share. This is a 38SW with all matching including the grips. It has the "flaming bomb", US Property & GHD on the left strap. What I have never seen before is that there are no import marks on this revolver anywhere. I have not seen a US Property marked 38SW without import marks. Is anyone familiar with this? Thanks, Cattleman77

Cattleman77, your victory sounds similar to one I listed a couple of posts up from your entry. I have requested a letter & if I learn anything specific to these I'll let you know... Brigham33 Rick

First off, welcome to the forum. As you're almost certainly aware, that's a pretty early Victory, probably shipped in the summer of 1942. Its lack of martial marks makes it an excellent candidate for a factory letter, which I'd urge you to get.

This gun most likely dates to mid-1944. A lot of these late gov't .38/200's evidently never left the country, at least insofar as going to our British Commonwealth allies, albeit some later turned up being furnished to various postwar German polizei. The fate of many was that they were simply disposed of as surplus following the cessation of hostilities.

Two very interesting guns, a nice way to make your splash here.

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

Thanks a lot for the info Goony. I am pretty sure the 1st one went to the USMC, but I had never seen a 38SW without import marks. Your description makes sense being a late S/N and possibly not actually issued to the Allies. Both have found permanent homes now. Thanks, Cattleman77

I would appreciate it if you would share any info you get. Thanks, Cattleman77

Do you mean the Marine Corps or the Maritime Commission? And what's the basis for your thinking so?

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

I recently purchased serial number V673142 5 inch barrel in .38 S&W. It is still in the orginal .38 S&W not reamed to .38 Special. Finish is the wartime "Black Magic" type. No British proofs, only a "P" stamped on the left side at he upper right of the cylinder window. "P" is also stamped under the barrel on the ejector rod flat after the serial number. Only other markings is the numeral "19" stamped on the front of the gripframe under the strain screw. Stocks are not orginal, but Diamond S&W magnas. The lanyard ring was missing but I had one around and it slipped in with no problem, the retaining pin was still in the frame under the stocks. Gun is in great shape with only a little holster wear. My question is I thought all the .38 S&W chambered guns went to the British Empire. Thanks

Cattleman77:

Does your V75136 have a flaming bomb mark on the butt?

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

MWR1:

Thanks for posting your Data. Are there any left top strap markings on your revolver?

While the great bulk of the .38 S&W/.38-200 guns went to the British and its Commonwealth members not all did so. The US retained some of them for years.

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Yes it does, thanks. I have several pics I can share if there is an email address I can send them to. If I can post them here I will if I can figure out how to do it.
Cattleman77

I was thinking Maritime Commission since it does not have US Property on the left strap. Were Victories issued to the military without the US Property stamp? Thanks

Any martial Victory ought to have the a U.S. Navy or Army marking on the topstrap. But it's always better to never say "never" when it comes to S&W production and its distribution. I wouldn't be shocked if a stray unmarked one found its way into the pipeline for military issue.

Your early Victory may well be a U.S. Maritime Commission gun. It could also easily be one of those shipped under the aegis of the Defense Supplies Corporation, some of which went to very interesting destinations. Again, I'd strongly urge you to invest in lettering it.

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

I'm no expert but I believe this statement to be a little too broad, isn't it? For example, the Victory Models shipped to the OSS have no markings on the top strap, I think, and I've never seen one marked US Army. Hopefully ordnanceguy will come along and correct me.

Regards,
Kevin Williams

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Kevin Williams SWCA1649 HF208

Kevin, that raises the question of whether an OSS gun is a true martial - gov't property, yes, but perhaps not necessarily military issue, and as you point out, likely unmarked given its potential covert purpose.

As to the "Army" marking, I'm referring to the later, standard "U.S. PROPERTY G.H.D." marking as required by the Army Supply Program, even though it's believed those guns still went almost entirely to the Navy, too.

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

Nothing on the top strap. Could this have been a factory security force gun? There was a defense plant in this area during WWII.

Couldn't disagree more but this is probably not the place to argue the point.

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Kevin Williams SWCA1649 HF208

I think that's another one that may merit a letter.

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

Hi Kevin:

I can confirm that the OSS-shipped Victory Models had no left top strap markings.

There were also a number of Navy-shipped Victory Models that had no left top strap markings.

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

Finally the photos!

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Jinks letter arrived on the bottom Victory (995163), Shipped June 10, 1942 to Hartford Ordnance Depot the Eastern Regional Distribution Center for Lend Lease Products. (To repeat, looks unissued, had US property, ordnace bob marks and WB inspection block.)

I'm a new member and I would like some info on a Victory Model I have, SN70389 marked U S NAVY. It has no S on the case. How can I tell if it has had the safety conversion. Thanks, TJS

Obtained V620698 today:
Serial numbers match barrel, butt cylinder;
38 S&W, not reamed to 38 special;
lots of the crowned B half-N P stamps, 6X cylinder, barrel, frame ;
US Property GHD left side top strap;
doesn't apper to have been fired much if at all;
Knicks, dings, some pits on backstrap, backstrap coating rubbed some, possibly by steel wool to get rid of the rust related to the pitting;
came with pretty nice silver logo diamond stocks stamped 716045 on the right hand stock;
lanyard ring is intact;
grooved (11 if I counted correctly) case hardened trigger, nice colors remain, hammer case colors nice also.
Zero endshake, good timing & lockup.

EDIT added description:
5" BARREL;
has similar markings to those described by ladyT in her post: crossed swords, H in left , P in right, and 3 in bottom openings of the crossed swords.

rayb

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"cumplo pero no obedezco"

Thanks, Ray. We will get this one into the Database.

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Charlie Flick
SWCA 729 HF 215

First off, welcome to the forum.

I am presuming your serial number is V70389, which is an early Victory that should've shipped in 1942. Those guns that per a 1945 contract were returned by the Navy to Smith & Wesson for incorporation of the new style hammer block typically had an "S" prefix added to the serial number, as well as another smaller "s" stamped at the upper rear corner of the sideplate. If yours has neither of these markings, it should be presumed it never received that upgrade.

How about posting a photo or two of your Victory?

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

My Father was given a S&W when my Grandfather was killed in the line of duty by the police department. Whether is was my Grandfather actual sidearm is still unknown. The S/N is V462885. There are no markings that is was used by the military...
For pictures...
Untitled document

From reading other posts, I'm kind of assuming 1943-44... but most of those you have talked about are military... what about police?

Thanks

Welcome to the forum, Retzcat.

Late 1943 or early 1944 would be about right on dating your Victory. If this one was allocated by the Defense Supplies Corporation (and such normally lacked any military markings), it could well have been shipped to your grandfather's agency. A factory letter would be required to establish whether this was the case.

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

Hi all....First post.

I picked this US Navy marked S&W Victory Model in .38 Special the other day at a local pawn shop. I gave $300.00 OTD for it.

Serial V181724. It's marked U.S. NAVY on the top-strap. No heel inspector's or side plate markings.

Any info on it as to a rough born on date would be appreciated.

Other than the replacement Magna grips and missing lanyard ring/pin everything else matches on it like it should. It's very tight and the bore is excellent.

I took the Magnas off as soon as I took the pics and they left a very slight shaddow on the left side but it's clean on the right.

I know magnas are not original to the weapon but in my searches I've seen a lot of Victory Models wearing them for some reason. I wonder if when they were surplussed off if the magnas were put on to pretty them up some.

Welcome to the forum, 1srelluc. The photos are appreciated.

Your Victory most likely shipped in late 1942 or early 1943. Was the right panel of the magna stocks stamped with a (nonmatching) number? That would to me be indicative of replacement of the plain originals by a previous owner, which does seem to have been fairly common.

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

I figured about the same for the born on date as I found a '43 one that was only 1500 off of mine.

The magna grips were replacements and of course were non-matching. For what they are going for these days they will more than pay for the parts needed to get my Victory up to snuff.

I called Springfield Sporters and they had a complete set of Victory smooth walnut stocks and a lanyard swivel (I simply made a swivel pin from a drill bit) for a very reasonable price.

Springfield Sporters has never disapointed as to the condition of their parts either. Good go-to folks for C&R mil-surps.

Question: I plan on getting a lanyard for my Victory so would the proper one be the cord type with snap or the wire hook?

I have a Victory given to me by my wifes best friend. Was issued to her father (Navy) in WWII. Ser.# is V716754 .38Spl. Parkerized,some pitting on the top strap and frame, 'bout what I would expect after being exposed to salt water conditions. Bore is shiny and it almost looks unfired.

S&W Victory # S V 308609 (S stands for return to factory for safety upgrade)

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Welcome to the forum. Is your Victory marked "U.S. PROPERTY G.H.D." on the topstrap?

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

[IMG][/IMG]Hi Goony, just took a couple of photos. Yes, U.S. Property amd GHD on the top strap. Any idea on the manf. date?

Towards the end of wartime production, possibly shipped as late as early 1945.

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"