Pate mentions a shipment of 50 revolvers to the Coast Guard on 7/25/42, with "U. S. COAST GUARD" on the backstrap. Given the top strap stampings, it's likely yours was shipped to the U. S. Navy and not to the Coast Guard, and there is probably no way to determine when or by whom the USCG frame engraving was applied. Or even if it was ever transferred to the USCG. It will be interesting to see what the letter says.
Pate mentions a shipment of 50 revolvers to the Coast Guard on 7/25/42, with "U. S. COAST GUARD" on the backstrap. Given the top strap stampings, it's likely yours was shipped to the U. S. Navy and not to the Coast Guard, and there is probably no way to determine when or by whom the USCG frame engraving was applied. Or even if it was ever transferred to the USCG. It will be interesting to see what the letter says.
I'm mailing the check tomorrow to get a factory letter. Hopefully the turnaround won't be too long. I am very curious. Like you, I believe it wasn't under an official contract to the USCG. The stamping could have occurred during the war or postwar from a transfer from another branch as surplus. I imagine this gun stayed with the service many years after the war. Unfortunately, there is no way to know. I'll keep you guys posted!
Sorry, I won't have more details on this pistol for a few more weeks, but I thought I would get the ball rolling to see if it was already in the database. I won it at a recent auction. This is all I know and here are two not-great pictures: Smith & Wesson .38 SPL Revolver, serial number SV761613.
Based on what I could glean from the interwebs, probably 1945 production, but might have been early enough to go to the military? Once it arrives I'll check for US/military markings.
The SV-series were the first to incorporate the improved drop safety, and that is what the "S" in SV indicates. All of these were manufactured beginning in early 1945, and stopped on VJ day. Quite a few were assembled from parts remaining in factory inventory at war's end for sale on the civilian market during the first 3-4 months of 1946. Those were shipped with the civilian blued finish and Magna grips. Lanyard swivel holes in the grip frame were normally plugged on those civilian SV revolvers. I have never seen any reliable information about how many SV-series Victories went to the U. S. military and how many were civilian guns. From its appearance, yours was probably shipped to the military. In any event, the military SVs will have the "U. S. PROPERTY" topstrap stamping. None are known to have been chambered in .38 S&W for shipment to the British. The highest known SN is around SV 811xxx. The earliest known is around SV 732xxx, but in fact most seem to have been shipped starting around SV 762xxx. Yours would have been among those of very early production. Shipping dates of the SV-series Victories are highly randomly distributed and very poorly correlated with SN. The finish on yours does not look quite correct, and it may have been refinished. But it also may well be just the lighting.
Sorry, I won't have more details on this pistol for a few more weeks, but I thought I would get the ball rolling to see if it was already in the database. I won it at a recent auction. This is all I know and here are two not-great pictures: Smith & Wesson .38 SPL Revolver, serial number SV761613.
Based on what I could glean from the interwebs, probably 1945 production, but might have been early enough to go to the military? Once it arrives I'll check for US/military markings.
Update: The top strap is stamped "US Property GHD" and it has matching numbers on the butt, cylinder, and the underside of the barrel.
For the database. Picked up a 423,xxx serial number revolver. Had a cracked forcing cone. The barrel had already been replaced with a victory barrel. Was a 4” victory/.38 special. Guess it’s been destroyed..
Edit: if the database maintainers want the remains the of the barrel let me know and I can mail it
Recently acquired a 4" .38 special Victory revolver, SN 1522**
Can anyone comment on when it was manufactured/shipped? I don't recall seeing any markings on the top strap.
I assume the SN is V1522xx. Without any property marking on the topstrap it was probably a civilian DSC gun, for stateside use (police, defense plant guards, etc.). That SN would place its shipment at around November 1942.
Thank you. You are correct - that serial number had a V at the beginning which I forgot to add. Pics later once the pistol comes out of "jail" (waiting period).
And finally V715067. The lanyard swivel is removed and it has been reblued. I got it as a package with a Mighty Midget tear gas launcher that was used by the Marion County (Oregon) Sheriff.
For those who are wondering the ATF has held that "devices designed for expelling tear gas or pyrotechnic signals are not weapons and are exempt from the destructive device definition" as long as they are not possessed in combination with “anti-personnel” ammunition such as "cartridges containing wood pellets, rubber pellets or balls, and bean bags." https://www.atf.gov/file/55446/download
Here are pages from the Smith & Wesson catalog of police items showing the Mighty Midget Grenade Kit
I was digging through some papers at work the other day and found this old inventory list. I know they were in our posession as of late 1986 but I have no idea when they were acquired or how and when they were disposed of (I know we no longer have them). The Victorys were listed under “civil defense”. I will do some more digging and try to find out what happened to them.
Here are my four Victory revolvers and 38/200.
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V399125 38/200 K-200 with Australian markings
Cool stuff. While that tear gas kit is certainly something you don’t see every day, from a Victory collector’s point of view the Australian is most interesting:
You appear to have a Lend-lease BSR with FTR (refurbish) marks from the Lithgow Small Arms Factory that was NOT refinished, but retains the original factory finish. While occasionally Australian-marked guns show up which were not FTR’d, I haven’t seen an FTR without parkerizing before.
Found a few more on other sheets. These are listed as being issued out to individual Townships so they probably saw some duty use. Same lack of info on disposition though.
V48304
V309030
V53734 (this one is listed as a Colt Python but the SN is unlike any other colts on the inventory.
I was digging through some papers at work the other day and found this old inventory list. I know they were in our posession as of late 1986 but I have no idea when they were acquired or how and when they were disposed of (I know we no longer have them). The Victorys were listed under “civil defense”. I will do some more digging and try to find out what happened to them.
I picked up this Victory #323752 at a pawn shop recently for $200 with the caveat that the cylinder was very stiff to swing open. Well I was pretty sure I knew what the issue was, and sure enough the ejector rod was just very gunked-up. It now opens and functions like a champ.
I bring it to the attention of the forum for a couple of reasons, one, hoping that the experts here might find an approximate shipping date based on database entries, and two, because a few members of a popular facebook collectors group thought this Victory may have been reparked at some point.
If it has been reparked, it was done so very professionally. If not, I think it is in exceptional condition. What do y'all think? What's a reasonable value in today's market?
It would have shipped sometime in 1944. I own V650093 and it shipped 8/44. It is a .38SW.
Nice the s/n on the frame and cylinder match. What is the s/n on the barrel flat (under the extractor rod)?
That charging hole under the "P" on your fourth photo looks like the cylinder may have been reamed out to take a .38 special yet the barrel is stamped .38 special. If the s/n on the barrel flat matches it was and is a .38 special.
example of barrel flat
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Mike
S&WCA #3065
Last edited by Targets Guy; 01-26-2019 at 11:29 AM.
If the flaming bomb is on the butt at that point in time, it cannot have left the factory as a .38 S&W British Service model.
It also means the gun was shipped to a non-military recipient most likely on a DSC contract. Military and Lend-lease Victorys had the bomb on the topstrap with the property marking.
Flaming Bomb is on the butt.
"non-military recipient most likely on a DSC contract" , would that be state side?
Thanks
Yes. The Defense Supplies Corporation (DSC) was a government entity that managed the distribution of essential stuff during the war. They had a revolver program which allowed police departments, defense contractor security etc., to acquire guns upon application.
I have a Victory fairly close to yours, V626880, which was shipped to the Louisville KY police.
New here but I do have a couple of Victorys, this is the latest and USN marked...
Dave
Nice one. Do all serial numbers match? Butt, cylinder face, underbarrel, extractor star, rear side of crane (look through a chamber), right grip panel.
The gun appears unissued, interesting on such a low serial (later 1942). I would suspect the minor wear and the turn line to be the result of post-war handling.
Nice one. Do all serial numbers match? Butt, cylinder face, underbarrel, extractor star, rear side of crane (look through a chamber), right grip panel.
The gun appears unissued, interesting on such a low serial (later 1942). I would suspect the minor wear and the turn line to be the result of post-war handling.
- S/N on barrel, frame, cylinder and stocks are identical
- has been rebored for .38spl
- CB marking on the left side which could be the Carl Walther (Import)
- SH on the backstrap could be Schleswig Holstein and POL for Polizei. Not sure what the I and 294 stand for
- Has the GHD on the topstrap
Hope this helps and looking forward to a DOB or any further information to this fine piece.
Sorry for those dirty snapshots, not my style but kids arent giving me much time today.
- S/N on barrel, frame, cylinder and stocks are identical
- has been rebored for .38spl
- CB marking on the left side which could be the Carl Walther (Import)
- SH on the backstrap could be Schleswig Holstein and POL for Polizei. Not sure what the I and 294 stand for
- Has the GHD on the topstrap
....
Good one! The V 750701 makes it a very late BSR, Dec./Jan. ‘44/‘45. That would explain its overall good condition. The left grip panel is pretty funky; never seen that swirl on a standard walnut stock.
Your Schleswig-Holstein guess is likely correct. The I might be a city code, possibly Itzehoe, HQ of one of the police directorates (Polizeidirektion), which would explain the relatively high inventory number. After starting out with ex-Wehrmacht P08’s, S-H police was issued S&W revolvers in 1947 and used them through the 1950s, along with other types, until standardizing on the Walther PP by the beginning of the 1960s.
Interestingly, the gun also has the large P at the end of the backstrap, which has appeared on the side frame of various Victorys and to my knowledge not been convincingly decoded yet.
Good one! The V 750701 makes it a very late BSR, Dec./Jan. ‘44/‘45. That would explain its overall good condition. The left grip panel is pretty funky; never seen that swirl on a standard walnut stock.
Your Schleswig-Holstein guess is likely correct. The I might be a city code, possibly Itzehoe, HQ of one of the police directorates (Polizeidirektion), which would explain the relatively high inventory number. After starting out with ex-Wehrmacht P08’s, S-H police was issued S&W revolvers in 1947 and used them through the 1950s, along with other types, until standardizing on the Walther PP by the beginning of the 1960s.
Interestingly, the gun also has the large P at the end of the backstrap, which has appeared on the side frame of various Victorys and to my knowledge not been convincingly decoded yet.
Thank you so much for the great information on this piece. Really appreciate it.
Edit:
I can't really decipher the letters before "property G.H.D.". In theory it should be U.S., shouldn't it? IMG_8580 by swaficionado, on Flickr
Yes, it should read "U.S. PROPERTY G.H.D."
Also, you show .38special cartridges with the revolver. Has it been converted to accept .38Special as I would think it would only accept .38S&W cartridges if all original.
Dale
P.S. I see now where you stated it has been bored to accept .38Special. How is it's accuracy using .38special ammo?
I just bought two victory frames from a yard sale. Rusty as heck and stripped completely. Kind of a hobby project. The first is V1901xx which from what I have read puts it late 1942-early1943. The next has me scratching my head. S/N V914. That's it, a letter and 3 numbers. Anyone have any thoughts?
.....The next has me scratching my head. S/N V914. That's it, a letter and 3 numbers. Anyone have any thoughts?
Are the V plus three digits centered next to the lanyard hole in such a way that it seems not likely that any further digits were somehow removed by grinding?
If so, it's simply an early Victory from summer 1942. They started at V 1, so there has to have been a V 914
Are the V plus three digits centered next to the lanyard hole in such a way that it seems not likely that any further digits were somehow removed by grinding?
If so, it's simply an early Victory from summer 1942. They started at V 1, so there has to have been a V 914
So I was set up at a local show this weekend, and when I was walking through last month, I found a guy who had two Victories for sale. I've kind of wanted one for a while, and figured I'd pop over his table Saturday before the show opened and see if he had them still...
Of course Saturday, got over there, and he had sold the one in somewhat nicer condition last show...oh well.
So I looked at the remaining one...it was in ok shape, all original finish, not stamped on the top strap, which I have read here means more than likely it was sent to the DSC...I also see I can request a letter to find out where it was shipped possibly, I'll have to look into doing that.
It is complete, with lanyard ring, which seems to be often missing. S/N is V 349572. All numbered parts that should be numbered match nicely. Bottom of grip strap has the "V" prefix s/n, and ordnance bomb marking, plus an "M" or "W", which I don't know if it means anything or not...there is a proof "P" on the frame, and one on barrel.
Original and correct grips...rough idea by serial number is earlier to mid 1943 delivery?
The guy had it marked at $495 which I think is high, but when I talked to him about it Saturday morning, he said, cash money, he'd take $400...so I decided to grab it.
Working on cleaning it up very carefully, slowly, and judiciously...but here are some initial pic...
Like the gun very much, comfortable in hand, points nicely, lockup is tight...can't wait to put some rounds through it!
I will now be looking to pick up some other variants, I really dig it!
....S/N is V 349572. All numbered parts that should be numbered match nicely. Bottom of grip strap has the "V" prefix s/n, and ordnance bomb marking, plus an "M" or "W", which I don't know if it means anything or not...there is a proof "P" on the frame, and one on barrel.
Original and correct grips...rough idea by serial number is earlier to mid 1943 delivery?
....
Welcome to the forum.
You’ve got it identified and dated about right. And 400 seems a good price for complete, all-matching and original.
The W stamp has been subject to speculation and research, but as far as I know there is no satisfactory explanation yet. At one time it was linked to Westinghouse, but that has been discounted.
..... Bottom of grip strap has the "V" prefix s/n, and ordnance bomb marking, plus an "M" or "W", which I don't know if it means anything or not...there is a proof "P" on the frame, and one on barrel.
Original and correct grips...rough idea by serial number is earlier to mid 1943 delivery?
That's a nice looking Victory. The letter on the butt would be a W, not an M. And your guess on the shipping date is pretty good. Based on the Victory Model Database, I would estimate that your revolver likely shipped in the July, 1943 time frame.
Fairly early Victory I bought about 25 years ago. S# V824XX on the butt with a very small ordnance bomb opposite the lanyard from the serial number. No other markings on it at all. I assume it was shipped fairly early in 1942. Also, it looks as though it was not parkerized, but issued in the white. If parkerized it was a very light finish.
Thanks for posting your very nice Victory. Since your pic reveals the complete serial (I can't work with incomplete serials), I can estimate for you that your revolver likely shipped from the factory in the August-September, 1944 time frame.
Am I correct in assuming that your example also has left top strap markings of Ố U.S. PROPERTY G.H.D. ?
Yes charlie it does have the property mark and GHD on the top left strap. I forgot to take the pic. It is my understanding this change occurred in May of 1943 but past that I am not sure. The pic does reveal the entire serial number, the V is covered up by the loop, but I did not think that was an issue. My apologies, I am not trying to hide anything as that is not helping the forum. V656906
John
Picked up my first Victory Model over the weekend.
Serial # V452486 (all matching numbers, no re-work marks)
Flaming bomb on butt
4" .38 Special
No top strap markings
I believe this is a DSC contract gun from late 1943. The finish looks original to me and it shows little signs of use, just some holster wear and spotting from poor storage. It's out of an estate and came in a strange unmarked IWB holster.
Does a letter generally identify the end user, or do they just show DSC?
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Last edited by s&wchad; 04-29-2019 at 01:29 PM.
Reason: photos merged
New member to the forums here, glad and sad that I found this thread. After reading through some of these posts, I'm pretty sure I have a Frankenstein Victory. I received this Victory a few years ago when my grandfather died. He seems to have gotten it from a friend/co worker back in the 60s for a nightstand gun. Markings on top of the frame is a Ord. flaming piss pot, U.S. PROPERTY G.H.D, the SN# on the butt is V 621450, on the frame and crane it is 73832, under the barrel it reads C300447 (not very clear in the pic) . No marks on the backstrap. Did someone mash this thing together from parts laying around the shop to make a snub?
Not pictured the forcing cone looks pretty good. So am I right, this thing is cobbled together from multiple guns? Should I even think of firing regular .38, let alone .38 special through it? I have no worries as to the $ value of the gun as it is pretty beat up. Just something to keep in the safe and say it belonged to grandpa.
I didn't know about the database on my last inquiry. If those who maintain in can give me any info on mine, I'd appreciate it.
V 393573. Yolk numbers 47321 with an S below. Grip looks period but is oversized and hides the SN. Barrel has been replaced with a 6" slabside under a full length Bo-Mar sight rail.
Deep blue color.38 special. Very light single action trigger pull.
I've been told the modifications are most likely a PPC conversion but I know little about the guns early history.
New member to the forums here, glad and sad that I found this thread. After reading through some of these posts, I'm pretty sure I have a Frankenstein Victory. I received this Victory a few years ago when my grandfather died. He seems to have gotten it from a friend/co worker back in the 60s for a nightstand gun. Markings on top of the frame is a Ord. flaming piss pot, U.S. PROPERTY G.H.D, the SN# on the butt is V 621450, on the frame and crane it is 73832, under the barrel it reads C300447 (not very clear in the pic) . No marks on the backstrap. Did someone mash this thing together from parts laying around the shop to make a snub?
under the barrel
the barrel
Yes, someone replaced the original barrel with a commercial M&P barrel from the mid 1950’s. The change required a shorter ejector rod, so they also replace that. Looks like they used vice grips to tighten the rod.
I’m not up on these enough to tell if your gun was originally chambered in .38 Special or the British .38-200 (.38 S&W), but they’re not interchangeable. The .38-200 is shorter and fatter and the cylinder needs to be bored out to accept the .38 Special cartridge. Thousands were modified after the war, but the modification cal lead to bulged or ruptured cases when shooting .38 Specials. If a .38 S&W cartridge fits in the chambers, it was originally a British Lend Lease gun. If it doesn’t, your probably safe shooting standard velocity .38 Special cartridges.
....
Serial # V452486 (all matching numbers, no re-work marks)
Flaming bomb on butt
4" .38 Special
No top strap markings
I believe this is a DSC contract gun from late 1943.
....
Does a letter generally identify the end user, or do they just show DSC?
....
Your identification is right on.
And yes, at that time DSC guns letter as shipped to the final recipient.
Only for a few months in early 1942 did the DSC physically receive the guns and then handle the actual distribution; so only pre-Victorys from the first few months of 1942 will letter to the DSC warehouse in Washington. After that, they switched to just handling the paperwork and having S&W ship directly to the end user.
There is a small chance an unmarked gun like yours will letter as shipped to the US Maritime Commission.