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08-21-2012, 05:47 PM
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08-23-2012, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swsing
How about V318132?
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How about a little more info? Barrel length, caliber, topstrap markings, et cetera? Maybe a photo or two, also?
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08-23-2012, 09:52 PM
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Buddy's father ran a liquor store decades ago and a patron traded it for a bottle of whisky. Rye I think he said. Nickel plated including the hammer and trigger. 38 special. 4" barrel. Nice nickel job. Better than my late vintage 36-3 factory job. I'll try to get more details and pics. I just wanna tell him when that piece was made other than "during the war". His father was a B-17 mechanic with the eighth air force and left him quite a few nice things.
I never met "Mr. Joe" but wish I had....
Last edited by swsing; 08-23-2012 at 09:55 PM.
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08-23-2012, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swsing
I just wanna tell him when that piece was made other than "during the war".
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You can tell him 1943.
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08-24-2012, 11:29 AM
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I just bought a 5" Victory Model and want to add it to the database. It's modified to fire .38 special. It's got .38 S&W CTG. on the barrel and CAL .38 SPECIAL under the cylinder release. The barrel, butt and cylinder sn's all match. It's stamped UNITED STATES PROPERTY on the left top strap and an N (arrow) Z 5707 above the grip under the hammer. There's a W.B., what looks like the bomb, but is worn, and a P on the butt. Serial number V91599
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08-24-2012, 12:03 PM
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Was taking some pics of my Victory I noticed that by the strain screw there was the number 6 which also appeared in the area that you normally find the mode number. I also noticied another number there that was different from what was on the cylinder and the butt of the gun. Any idea what it is. I alzo noticed by the pin that anchors the grips the letters. W, Z and T. Any idea what these are.
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08-24-2012, 04:26 PM
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info please....
i picked up a Victory Model along with a GI issue 1911A1 circa 1944 and was wondering about some additional info on the Smith. It is a 4" 38 spl like my dad was issued as a navy airman in WW2. Parkerized with lanyard ring and wood grips. US Property marked across left top strap with GHD stamp. Lots of holster wear on top strap, muzzle, and cylinder edges consistent with age and use i think. S/n is V631796. Any help appreciated.
PS under closer examinatio there is also the letter P stamped into frame above cylinder latch, just above recoil shield.
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carolina's longarm
SASS 4146
Last edited by longarm4146; 08-24-2012 at 04:36 PM.
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08-24-2012, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NashvilleMike
I just bought a 5" Victory Model and want to add it to the database.
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Mike:
Thanks for contributing your data to the Victory Model Database.
BTW, that mark above the back strap indicates that your revolver once served with the armed forces of New Zealand.
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Charlie Flick
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08-24-2012, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longarm4146
i picked up a Victory Model .... and was wondering about some additional info on the Smith. Any help appreciated.
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Longarm:
Thanks for providing your data for the Victory Database. I would expect that you will also find P-proof marks on the barrel flat and the cylinder face.
You now have two 1944 guns. Your Victory likely shipped from the factory in the July, 1944 time frame. Chances are good that it was shipped to the US Navy.
I hope that helps you.
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Charlie Flick
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08-25-2012, 11:00 AM
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that's a pleasant coincidence that the gun is prolly a Navy issue weapon. My Dad was a naval combat airman in the south pacific, crew chief on a B-24 Liberator. I have pics of one of his crew members shooting a S&W on a beach in his skivvys.
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carolina's longarm
SASS 4146
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09-01-2012, 10:39 PM
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My grandfather's old revolver. S/N# V765493 BNP proof mark stamped ALL over it. Another proof with maybe crossed swords and an N .767" 3 1/2 Tons on the barrel Brauer Bros. Mfg. St. Louis holster Most likely the wrong grips
Can you guts tell me a little about it? I'm going to contact Smith & Wesson after the holiday.
Thanks in advance,
Craig Campbell
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09-01-2012, 11:11 PM
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First off, Craig, welcome to the forum. The photos are appreciated.
A very late production Victory in its British Service Revolver configuration. The proofing indicates release to the civilian market by the British government. In the post WWII years, these were often refinished either in blue (like yours) or nickel, and frequently had the chambers reamed to accept the .38 Special round as well, before being exported to the U.S. The grips as you surmise are also not original.
This may be a passable shooter, but its historical and collectible value is now minimal. One thing to check is whether both a .38 S&W round and a .38 Special round will chamber. If you find that to be so, you'd be well advised to stick to the former, as .38 Special casings may bulge and even rupture if used in a gun so modified.
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09-01-2012, 11:15 PM
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Cadzilla, welcome to the forum.
You have a British Service Revolver that was produced fairly late in WWII; it probably shipped in late 1944 or early 1945. It originally chambered the .38 S&W cartridge, which the British called the .38/200 because it was initially loaded with a heavy 200 gr bullet. The .767" you see stamped on the gun is the cartridge case length for that round, and 3.5 tonnes is the pressure test it passed before being released to the civilian market after its service life was over. BNP = Birmingham Nitro Proof, one of the British proof houses involved in such certification.
When these guns came back to the US as imports, many had their chambers bored deeper so the guns would take the .38 Special round. If that was done to your gun, .38 Special cases may swell slightly when you shoot them as the .38 S&W case has a slightly greater diameter than .38 Special. You can still shoot .38 S&W in it, but .38 Special may not make for a completely satisfactory shooting experience. Results vary depending on the precision of the conversion.
You are correct that those are postwar replacement grips, probably imitation stag molded in Franzite. A lot of these were sold in the 1950s.
Oops! Goony typed faster. At least we agree!
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David Wilson
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09-02-2012, 10:43 AM
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Thanks for the quick replys guys. The barrel is only marked .38 S&W, and doesn't appear to have been rechambered. How can I tell for sure if it was rrechambered?
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09-02-2012, 10:58 AM
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Take a .38 SPCL round and drop it into the chamber. If it fully inserts, it has been reamed.
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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629
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09-02-2012, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiregrassguy
Take a .38 SPCL round and drop it into the chamber. If it fully inserts, it has been reamed.
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I just checked mine and it didn't load the 38 special. So that begs the question as to how many that went into the commercial market that didnt get reamed out.
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09-05-2012, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiregrassguy
Take a .38 SPCL round and drop it into the chamber. If it fully inserts, it has been reamed.
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Well that sounds entirely too simple. Thanks for the help. I'll let you know what I find out. Also, is the holster correct for the era?
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09-05-2012, 12:57 PM
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I have an old S&W holster stamped 20 26 for my .357 Highway Patrolman that looks like yours (except for the strap). However, I don't think it dates from the '40s. So, I would guess yours is a few years younger than the gun. However, someone here who has more holster experience should confirm.
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SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629
Last edited by Wiregrassguy; 09-05-2012 at 01:08 PM.
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09-05-2012, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyT
I just checked mine and it didn't load the 38 special. So that begs the question as to how many that went into the commercial market that didnt get reamed out.
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In the mid-50's, the British Service Revolver pattern was being widely offered in the U.S. in unaltered form. I've attached a sampling of advertisements from that era. Some are unintentionally humorous, such as the one in which a Colt 1917 is inadvertently illustrated, or another in which the .38 S&W cartridge is touted as "powerful".
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09-09-2012, 12:42 AM
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This date I purchased serial V124985, 4 inch 38 S&W Special CTG, Matching SN in all locations, including stocks. Lanyard pin, but no loop. No proof marks visible. At the proper location and of the proper length on the left top strap for the U.S. NAVY mark is a polished area. It is smoother than the adjoining areas, but appears to be the same color.
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11-01-2012, 05:21 PM
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A crying shame....
Examined today in one of the region's larger gun shops, serial number V747554, 4" barrel, .38 Special. Evidently never issued, carried, or maybe even shot. Lovely matching stocks.
So why didn't it come home with me? Because some cretin ground off the topstrap markings. Otherwise the most pristine Victory I've seen in quite awhile.
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11-01-2012, 07:24 PM
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Quick & easy question!
Is data also being collected on Pre-victories? If so I have a couple I sent in for letters and will post when the letters return, otherwise I'll not take up the space.
Thanks,
Rick
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11-02-2012, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brigham33
Is data also being collected on Pre-victories? If so I have a couple I sent in for letters and will post when the letters return, otherwise I'll not take up the space. Rick
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Hello Rick:
Yes, the Victory Database which my pal LWCmdr45 and I administer collects information on the pre-Victory guns as well. We would be pleased to include your revolvers in the Database when the info arrives. Thanks for your interest.
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Charlie Flick
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11-02-2012, 12:52 PM
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Thanks.
I've got a post war Victory SV, where I've heard S&W used the left over frames from WWII to fill the demand for revolvers. It has unusual markings under the grips, I'll include that as well. (It's also got a letter request in.) Rick
Last edited by brigham33; 11-02-2012 at 05:29 PM.
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12-02-2012, 03:10 PM
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I have a Victory, 6 inch barrel. Serial number V170407. All numbers match. No US gov markings on the gun. On the other side of the butt serial # there is a star (*) and what appears to be the bottom part of the ordnance bomb.(o). (might be a little on the small size so don't really know for sure.) It's a 38 S&W Special cartridge.
Additional marking under the grips.
Left side of the grip
Bottom Rear. Triangle with "B" in center. Next to that numeral "5"
Bottom Front. "1.47" and numeral "5"
Top Front. numeral "61"
Middle Front. numeral "8"
Right side of the grip
Bottom Front. "S"
Top front. "11"
Bottom middle around grip pin. a "K", a "1", and a "7" in a circle around the pin
Last edited by fzandome; 12-02-2012 at 11:55 PM.
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12-03-2012, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fzandome
I have a Victory, 6 inch barrel. Serial number V170407. All numbers match. No US gov markings on the gun. On the other side of the butt serial # there is a star (*) and what appears to be the bottom part of the ordnance bomb.(o). (might be a little on the small size so don't really know for sure.) It's a 38 S&W Special cartridge.
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Posting some photos would really be helpful here. Also, you don't say anything regarding the type of finish or stocks (grips). When you say "all numbers match" what specifically are you including?
A five pointed star on the butt usually indicates that substantial repair or refurbishment was done at the factory, but the markings you describe beneath the stocks don't seem to to denote a date for this having been done as is commonly the case.
Furthermore, a .38 Special Victory ought to originally have had a 4" barrel (or very rarely, a 2") - not a 6". Are you measuring from the front face of the cylinder to the muzzle?
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12-03-2012, 08:06 PM
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12-03-2012, 10:14 PM
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Serial number question
I have a S&W Victory model #93313. It has the flaming ball on the butt but i cant seem to find any other proof marks. It does not ahve US Property or anything on the top strap either. Anything you can tell me would be appreciated.
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12-03-2012, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedihessian
I have a S&W Victory model #93313. It has the flaming ball on the butt but i cant seem to find any other proof marks. It does not ahve US Property or anything on the top strap either. Anything you can tell me would be appreciated.
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First off, welcome to the forum.
I'm presuming your serial number is actually V93313, which would have most likely shipped in 1942. If it has a 4" barrel and is chambered in .38 Special, the lack of a topstrap marking usually indicates that it was routed to a "commercial" customer as allocated by the Defense Supplies Corporation, or alternately it may have gone to the United States Maritime Commission. However, some unmarked guns in this configuration did find their way into U.S. Navy hands. A letter is the best way of determining how it actually served the war cause.
If it has a 5" barrel and is chambered for the .38 S&W round, it probably (but not necessarily) was furnished to the British.
A more definitive assessment of your example might be able to be provided if you can post a photo or two.
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Last edited by Goony; 12-03-2012 at 11:48 PM.
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12-04-2012, 12:34 AM
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The photo that Red9 posted is the gun I have. (Thank you) The serial numbers on bottom of the grip, the barrel and the cylinder all match. The serial number on the swing away and frame match. (different than main serial number) The barrel serial number does not have a V in front of it like the rest. Finish black, assuming parkarizing. The printing does not appear to be "buffed out" crisp except for the S&W shield on the right side. Faded in the center. Grips are smooth walnut. Case hardening on trigger and hammer are 100%. Definitely a 6 inch barrel.
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12-04-2012, 01:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fzandome
The photo that Red9 posted is the gun I have. (Thank you) The serial numbers on bottom of the grip, the barrel and the cylinder all match. The serial number on the swing away and frame match. (different than main serial number) The barrel serial number does not have a V in front of it like the rest. Finish black, assuming parkarizing. The printing does not appear to be "buffed out" crisp except for the S&W shield on the right side. Faded in the center. Grips are smooth walnut. Case hardening on trigger and hammer are 100%. Definitely a 6 inch barrel.
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Well, that auction webpage won't open for me, so I can't see the gun to form any firm judgment regarding its orignality. However, a 6" barrel that wasn't a replacement would be atypical in the extreme, and would need to be verified as having shipped that way via a factory letter. If it checked out, I'd venture that the recipient would prove to be of interest as well.
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12-04-2012, 08:01 AM
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Please add this one to the database. V389892 This one may have been shipped to the Navy. If I got a letter to prove it was a Navy gun would it increase the value over an Army gun?
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12-04-2012, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Combat
Please add this one to the database. V389892 This one may have been shipped to the Navy. If I got a letter to prove it was a Navy gun would it increase the value over an Army gun?
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That one should've shipped about September of 1943. By that time, the Navy was no longer directly contracting with S&W for delivery of Victory revolvers, but instead was being furnished with them under the auspices of the Army Supply Program, which accounts for that branch's property and inspection marks. So even if yours has "Army" markings on the topstrap, it wouldn't be at all remarkable that it was shipped to the Navy. However, if yours doesn't have the Army markings (plain topstrap), it's likely a gun provided to a "commercial" customer per the direction of the Defense Supplies Corporation, or purchased by the United States Maritime Commission.
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12-04-2012, 03:45 PM
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Pic of top strap. Hope this helps.
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12-04-2012, 09:20 PM
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Serial V172407 6 in barrel photo
Here is the pic of my 6 in barrel gun
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12-04-2012, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fzandome
Here is the pic of my 6 in barrel gun
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That star on the butt certainly looks to be the factory repair/rework mark I mentioned earlier, which means essentially all bets are off on that barrel being the original. Strongest possibility is that at some point it went back to the factory where a new barrel was installed and numbered to the gun.
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12-07-2012, 05:42 PM
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Thanks alot I got it from my great uncle who was with a rail road unit in europe. I was wondering if he had aquired it there. I appreciate it.
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12-14-2012, 09:46 PM
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I wanted to get my Pre Victory find in the data base. Ser. # 697543, 6 inch, and all numbers except for the grips match. Thanks for keeping up with these for us.
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12-16-2012, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillXL
I wanted to get my Pre Victory find in the data base. Ser. # 697543, 6 inch, and all numbers except for the grips match. Thanks for keeping up with these for us.
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Thank you, Bill, for contributing the data on your nice Pre-Victory.
From the Database I would estimate that it shipped in the August-September, 1940 time frame. It probably shipped to the British Purchasing Commission. At that moment in history the Battle of Britain was at its height. Britain needed every firearm it could find. Your's was likely one of those guns bought in the darkest hours.
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Charlie Flick
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12-16-2012, 11:10 PM
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Thanks Ordnanceguy for your response. I thought it might be in that part of 1940. This is my first 5 screw S&W. It has been very interesting learning about these keepers. I passed on it the first time I saw it and went back to pick it up once I found out what it was after reading info on this web site. Is this the slippery slope I think it is?
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12-17-2012, 01:03 AM
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Please add V518427 to the Victory Data Base.
It has the original chambering as shown by a 38 S&W Special case inserted in it's shorter 38 S&W chamber.
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Dave
SWCA #2465
Last edited by S&W HE; 12-18-2012 at 01:32 PM.
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12-17-2012, 12:20 PM
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A "Doh!" moment
I must learn to be more exacting when inspecting my firearms.
I have posted in the past on my Victory (posts #29 and #69). Serial number on the frame is 43268 but I just noticed the cylinder bears #432695.
Does this sugest the gun was returned to S&W for repair work? Also, the "8" in the serial number is rather faint and I know the hole for the lanyard ring was filled in; this has me wondering if somehow the last digit of the serial number was erased as it makes more sense to me that the frame and cylinder would be only a few numbers apart as opposed to being 627 numbers apart. Am I overthinking this?
My letter makes no reference to any additional work done by S&W but I had failed to note the different number on the cylinder when I sent my request.
Ned
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12-17-2012, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S&W HE
Please add V518427 to the Victory Data Base.
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Hello Dave:
Thanks very much for contributing your info to the Victory Database. Every bit helps.
One question: On the left top strap are there US Property GHD markings?
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Charlie Flick
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12-17-2012, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ordnanceguy
Hello Dave:
Thanks very much for contributing your info to the Victory Database. Every bit helps.
One question: On the left top strap are there US Property GHD markings?
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Yes there are US Property GHD markings on left top strap. Also the frame, barrel, cylinder, and stocks serial numbers all match.
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Dave
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12-18-2012, 12:21 PM
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S&W Victory and pre-Victory
Two more for the data base. First is a Victory in .38 Special, 4" barrel, parkerized finish, SN V423316 on frame, cylinder, barrel and grips. This gun appears nearly unfired with no wear or brass marks on the recoil shield.
The second is a pre-Victory in .38 S&W with 5" barrel. The SN 810738 appears on the butt, cylinder, barrel, and checkered grips. The only non-standard marks are a small"P" stamped in the butt and the swivel. This piece also shows very little wear with none on the recoil shield.
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Tom
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12-19-2012, 03:29 AM
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Hi Tom:
Thanks for contributing the data on your two revolvers.
On your V423316 are there any left top strap markings?
On your 810738 am I correct in understanding that the finish is blued?
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Charlie Flick
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12-19-2012, 10:13 AM
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Help with ID
Can someone help me nail down the date on my smith. The serial number is 837xxx. All numbers match, including the frame, barrel, cylinder and the grips, which are the diamond with small silver medallions. The gun is marked on the left "Smith and Wesson". On the right "38 s &w special ctg." the barrel is a 6 inch, top of barrel last patent date "dec 29, 1914".
The gun is a five screw, it has a LARGE smith trademark logo on the right side plate. It is a very deep blue finish. There is made in USA on the right side. There are no other marks. It does have a lanyard loop. It has a serrated case trigger, case harmmer, standard round front sight and slot for rear sight. I am guessing it is a commercial version 1905 4th from around 1942. I know, I know, figure out how to post a photo or two! First post, so please be gentle!
Thanks in advance!
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12-19-2012, 10:42 AM
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I just got one that Bubba got hold of some time in the past. Serial number is V252003. The top has been scrubbed of any property markings. The "V" has been removed from the grip. The lanyard hole has been filled in. It has pock marks under the cylinder release that looks like somebody used it for a hammer. It's got the wrong grips. It has a very old and worn reblue. We got it at Gander Mountain a few days ago. It was in pieces in a zip-lock bag. We put it back together and the only thing missing was the side plate screw under the cylinder. I found a screw for it yesterday and we put it on and shot cans in the back yard yesterday afternoon. The barrel has good rifling and we knocked cans all over the place with it. At $70.00 it is the cheapest Victory I've ever bought. There is absolutely no collector value so it will join my household hide-a-gun program.
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12-19-2012, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottsaba
Can someone help me nail down the date on my smith. The serial number is 837xxx.
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Hello Scott:
Welcome to the Forum. You have what we call, for shorthand, a pre-Victory Model.
Would you please post here or send me a PM with the complete serial number? I can't really do much with a partial. With a complete number I can give you a very good estimate as to its likely ship date, based on the Victory Model Database which my pal LWCmdr45 and I administer.
Is there a "P" proof mark on the butt?
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Charlie Flick
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12-19-2012, 10:04 PM
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Scottsaba:
Thanks for PMing me with your complete serial number and other data. That makes it much easier for me to give you answers to your questions.
Your pre-Victory likely shipped from the S&W factory in the September-October, 1941 time frame. The absence of any property/proof/inspection/acceptance markings suggests strongly to me that your revolver was probably shipped to a civilian rather than a military destination. Only a factory letter can tell us for certain what the destination was in the absence of any telltale markings or other evidence.
Keep in mind that guns shipped in this time frame are among the last of the pre-war guns as shortly thereafter 100% of S&W production was to be devoted to the war effort.
You have an interesting revolver there. Thanks again for sharing it and its data with us.
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Charlie Flick
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380, cartridge, certificate, commercial, gunsmith, k frame, leather, military, model 10, parkerized, postwar, scope, sideplate, sig arms, smith and wesson, smith-wessonforum.com, springfield, stag, swca, trademark, united states property, victory, walnut, wondersight, wwii |
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