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07-26-2013, 08:41 PM
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" Originally Posted by the locksmith View Post
Hi,
I have an entry for the data base that I would like info on.... the serial # V 647613. The back strap, is stamped with H, E, a sideways J, and an M. ... Anything you can tell me will be appreciated. Larry"
I am sure you are aware the nickel finish and grips are not original. Many of these were put into civil police service in Germany and Austria during the post-WWII occupation period.
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07-27-2013, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ordnanceguy
Hello Larry:
Welcome to the Forum. Thanks for supplying the complete serial and good photos. I find partial serials with XXXs to be pretty much useless.
From the Victory Model Database, maintained by LWCmdr45 and yours truly, I can tell you that your Victory was likely shipped from the factory in the August, 1944 time frame. It was intended as a Lend Lease gun. It originally had a phosphate finish similar to Parkerizing, and had smooth walnut stocks.
The markings on the back strap were applied after it left the factory and, indeed, after the end of WW2. The markings actually read "HE-M". That is a property marking for a West German police agency which was supplied with Victory revolvers by Allied Forces. The markings are believed to be those of the German state of Hesse. Many Victory Models with similar back strap markings are found in the Database.
I trust that this information will be helpful to you.
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Ordnanceguy,
Thank you so much for that information, I was confused with what I took for the sideways J and having the details of its' trail during the war will definitely add to my enjoyment of this fine weapon.
Larry
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07-27-2013, 11:35 AM
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ImageUploadedByTapatalk1374939177.238870.jpg. Also looking for info on my victory I am assuming it has been refinished but se# v245xxx looking for year is it a civilian model where can I get original grips and what is it worth.thanks ed
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07-27-2013, 01:11 PM
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Yours shipped about March 1943. How is it marked, i.e., does it have anything stamped on the top strap (United States Property or U. S. Navy)? What is the caliber stamping on the barrel? If not stamped on the topstrap it is probably one made for stateside civilian service, for police or defense plant guards. Grips are very interesting, even though not original. Could be Tuskoid. I'll leave that to others who know more about grips than I do.
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07-27-2013, 02:24 PM
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No markings just on the frame where the cylinder opens there is an s5 and it is just a strait 38
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07-27-2013, 02:39 PM
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It should have at least a caliber marking (38 S&W Special CTG) on the barrel, unless it has been polished off. The lack of any other markings suggests it's one of the wartime DSC contract revolvers made for domestic use. The gun itself has no collector value due to its poor condition, but might be worth a couple of hundred as a shooter. However, the grips, if they are Tuskoid, could have substantial value. You may want to remove them and take some good detailed close-up pictures of both inner and outer surfaces for posting. Tuskoid grips are an arcane area of S&W collectibles, and the only ones I have seen have been the later Magna style. Those on yours are of the grip panel style used by S&W during the 1920s, and I have no idea if Tuskoids even existed then.
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07-27-2013, 03:17 PM
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Victory
Quote:
Originally Posted by the locksmith
Ordnanceguy,
Thank you so much for that information, I was confused with what I took for the sideways J and having the details of its' trail during the war will definitely add to my enjoyment of this fine weapon.
Larry
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I don't know if an answer to this is possible without handling it, but is there any way to put a ballpark value on this weapon?
Thanks,
Larry
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07-27-2013, 03:21 PM
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07-27-2013, 03:37 PM
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Yours was originally chambered in .38 S&W caliber, NOT .38 S&W Special. Therefore, it was originally made for the British Commonwealth military, not for the U. S. military or for U. S. civilian service. It should also have a United States Property stamping on the top strap. It has obviously been nickel plated, which was not done at the factory. It is also highly probable that the chambers have been reamed out to accept .38 S&W Special cartridges, and the barrel may have been shortened, as most of the original British contract barrels were 5". Yours looks to be shorter. In the years following WWII, a very large number of the British revolvers were so modified and sold very cheaply on the U.S. civilian market by mail order until the late 1960s. All defects taken together, the value of yours is minimal, except for possibly the grips, only if they can be identified as Tuskoid.
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07-27-2013, 03:44 PM
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Thank you very much ill take pics of the grips next you were a big help.
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08-02-2013, 03:57 PM
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another Victory
Found this on an auction site, V 397908. Matching numbers throughout. Will someone give me an idea of a ship date. I am guessing late 1943.
terry
Last edited by raisedin99; 04-07-2014 at 07:19 AM.
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08-02-2013, 07:40 PM
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Victory V764434
Victory V764434
Appears to be a factory re-barrel and refinish in black oxide. No US property markings on top strap, "P" stamped on left side rear just below the top strap, crossed swords with two small numbers also on left side just above the front of the trigger housing. Grip frame is stamped "R-SB 11 80". Barrel is a tapered 4" Model 10 with ramped and serrated front sight, underside is stamped with matching serial number and diamond. Grips are magnas, no serial number. It's a nice little rework that appears unfired since refurb. Looking for insight/speculation about what it was and an how it came to be in current state.
Was this an unshipped BSR converted to .38 Special for domestic use? Was there a mass return/refurb if LE firearms in 1980? How much is this oddity worth?
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Last edited by The Gila Bender; 01-25-2015 at 05:31 PM.
Reason: pics added 1/25/15
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08-02-2013, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gila Bender
Victory V764434
Appears to be a factory re-barrel and refinish in black oxide. No US property markings on top strap, "P" stamped on left side rear just below the top strap, crossed swords with two small numbers also on left side just above the front of the trigger housing. Grip frame is stamped "R-SB 11 80". Barrel is a tapered 4" Model 10 with ramped and serrated front sight, underside is stamped with matching serial number and diamond. Grips are magnas, no serial number. It's a nice little rework that appears unfired since refurb. A PD trade in perhaps? Missing the upper sideplate screw. Anyone got a spare?
Was this a BSR converted to .38 Special?
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From early 1945. If there is nothing stamped on the top strap, it's likely a DSC contract for civilian service, so it would have been in .38 Special. Magnas are probably not original. I don't know about the crossed swords. Just to be sure, try chambering a .38 S&W round to see if it fits. If not, it is an original .38 Special. If so, and a .38 Special round has a sloppy fit, the chambers are probably bored out. Numrich had the proper screw, or at least they did. Hopefully someone from here might sell you one.
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08-02-2013, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raisedin99
Found this on an auction site, V 397908. Matching numbers throughout. Will someone give me an idea of a build date. I am guessing late 1943.
terry
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Probably shipped around August 1943, manufacture would have been a little prior to that. What caliber? What markings?
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08-02-2013, 11:28 PM
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I just traded for victory
I just traded forvictory# v175898 4 inch barrel 38 spl U.S. NAVY all # match the only other markings are under cyl. release and they areN.Y.M.I. 731 what do I have and thanks
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08-03-2013, 12:08 AM
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more victorys for data base
Frist is# v198381 4 inch 38spl U.S. NAVY marked top strap all # match , next is #v285205 Flaming bomb U.S. PROPERTY GHD all # match but has repro grips 4 inch 38spl. Then there is v23897 no other markings 4 inch 38 spl. also v415965 38s@w 5 inch converted to 38 spl other marking are A arrow F between trigger guard and grips on other side of gun rebored in Australa A arrow F above made in usa below that FTR/MA 55 with 30 arrow with M R it has diamond checkered grips. last but not least v71390 with 5 inch barrel 38 s@w flaming bomb U.S. property GHD with what looks like Austrain proof marks. this was the frist gun I ever brought. the dealer said he brought it in a batch of T.V.A. guns in early 70s any info I think you in advance.
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08-03-2013, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt
Probably shipped around August 1943, manufacture would have been a little prior to that. What caliber? What markings?
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Flaming bomb symbol, US Property GHD...
.38 Special in caliber.
This is my second Victory and I am hopeful that it shoots as good as the one I bought a couple months ago... post # 385
Victory data base
terry
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08-05-2013, 11:17 AM
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Going to look at a Victory, could use help
If the planets align, I will be going to look at a Victory tomorrow, SN 4800xx. It is reportedly in 38 spc and with a 4" bbl. I don't yet know about other markings. It appears unmolested or refinished. What is the likely background on this gun? Anything special I should be looking for/at? Thanks. This could be my first "V"...something to keep my '17s company.
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08-05-2013, 02:52 PM
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HI, I have a snubnose serial V 282576 with an unusual mark under the "MADE IN THE USA" mark under the M. I will try and post my pics of the gun. Gum has no other unusual marks besides serial numbers and the one mark under the M, it has no model # no caliber.
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08-05-2013, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gila Bender
crossed swords with two small numbers also on left side just above the front of the trigger housing.
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That will be a British commercial proof mark, with the date contained in the code letters.
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08-05-2013, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JABO2246
HI, I have a snubnose serial V 282576 with an unusual mark under the "MADE IN THE USA" mark under the M. I will try and post my pics of the gun. Gum has no other unusual marks besides serial numbers and the one mark under the M, it has no model # no caliber.
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Seems like a butchered British .38/200 Victory from your description. If there is no latch on the bottom of the barrel ahead of the ejector rod, there is no doubt that it is. Yours would date from about May 1943.
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08-06-2013, 04:39 AM
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Are the serial numbers provided by forum members to this thread being recorded in numerical sequence & ship date for future reference?
I have some data to add to the list, as follows:
Presently-owned 38 Special, US Navy 4" with topstrap stamp AND Navy-applied "Property of" stamp on left side, #V5379x. I posted a picture of this revolver to a separate thread; it apparently dates from 1942.
Formerly-owned 4" 38 Special, US Navy on topstrap, #V152273.
Another Victory of my acquaintance is a 5" bbl 38/200, lend-lease for the UK. Topstrap is marked "US Property GHD." Imported by Century Int'l Arms ca 1997, #V379005.
It would be interesting to know the dates on these latter two if available.
Last edited by jw mathews; 08-06-2013 at 04:42 AM.
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08-06-2013, 09:37 AM
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V152273 - probable shipping 11/42; V379005 - 8/43
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08-08-2013, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbydill
I just traded forvictory# v175898 4 inch barrel 38 spl U.S. NAVY all # match the only other markings are under cyl. release and they areN.Y.M.I. 731 what do I have and thanks
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First off, welcome to the forum.
It doesn't appear that anybody has yet addressed your inquiry.
V175898 should've shipped in the late 1942 or very early 1943 time frame.
N.Y.M.I. = Navy Yard Mare Island, with the 731 being a property number for that facility. Typically this marking would be filled in with white paint.
I think I speak for all in saying we'd certainly like to see some photos of this one.
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08-08-2013, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebelchopper
Good evening all. I was recently given a S&W Victory model by my mother. I'm still researching where the gun came from in my family. In the meantime, I wanted to submit it to the registry. The Serial # is V219104, and has 'US NAVY' on the top left. All serial #'s match. I would like any info that you can provide me on my new piece of history. Please let me know if you need other info/markings from the gun. Thanks!
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Welcome to the forum. Wonderful photos, we all really appreciate that.
I'd remark that the fit of the stocks (grips) looks to be lacking. I suspect that if you (carefully) remove them, you'll discover that they're misnumbered to the gun.
Great heirloom in any event.
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08-08-2013, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goony
Welcome to the forum. Wonderful photos, we all really appreciate that.
I'd remark that the fit of the stocks (grips) looks to be lacking. I suspect that if you (carefully) remove them, you'll discover that they're misnumbered to the gun.
Great heirloom in any event.
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Thanks for the welcome. After posting originally, I did remove the grips to see if they're serialized. Unfortunately, they're not, so I'm suspecting they're not original . Bummer, but it is still in really good condition!
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08-09-2013, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebelchopper
Thanks for the welcome. After posting originally, I did remove the grips to see if they're serialized. Unfortunately, they're not, so I'm suspecting they're not original . Bummer, but it is still in really good condition!
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If unnumbered, they're presumptively not the originals, but may well be period armorer's or depot replacements, which is not too unusual.
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Last edited by Goony; 08-10-2013 at 08:08 PM.
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08-10-2013, 12:07 AM
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Almost positive I have one of these.... been trying to find information on it.
Smith & Wesson on left side of the barrel.
Two strange symbols on each side of "38 S&W. CTG" on the right side of the barrel.
Made in U.S A on right side of frame below cylinder.
A circle with a caret pointing up followed by U.S PROPERTY G.H.D on the top left.
Serial number V 428781 under barrel, inside the extractor, on the cylinder, and next to the lanyard ring. The V is separated from the numbers by the lanyard ring.
1284 is stampled on the left side of the frame, just below the cylinder release button.
Osterreich Polizei encircling with what looks like a bird is directly behind the cylinder release button, right where the frame is at... what could best be described as a 90 degree angle .
Open the cylinder and 83168 is inside it twice with "D1" on the actual frame just above the number.
Thank you for any help.
Last edited by Ghost1941; 08-10-2013 at 09:02 AM.
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08-10-2013, 04:55 PM
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Thannks for the info! It is worn pretty decently. The barrel is still 5 inches long but hoow would I go about telling whether it has been converted to .38i Special
Thank you for the site. I saw that and then my searches led me here.
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08-10-2013, 05:21 PM
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If you have a .38 Special cartridge or fired case, the easiest way is to see if it can be inserted completely into a chamber. You can also tell by the visual appearance of the "step" in the chamber if you know what to look for.
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08-24-2013, 10:05 PM
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V606404 would be from about June 1944. If chambers have not been reamed, it locks up well, and cosmetic features look good, that would not be a bad price, but I'd try to negotiate a better one. Replacement grips are not that expensive. I have noticed a number of them on eBay recently for less than $40. You might be able to sell those on it for enough to buy the correct grips.
If bored, I wouldn't buy it.
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09-03-2013, 09:11 AM
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Question,
I have a Victory # 357473. 4" in 38 spl. marked US Property G.H.D. on the top strap.
What year is this.
Thanks Jess
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09-03-2013, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 50GI-Jess
Question,
I have a Victory # 357473. 4" in 38 spl. marked US Property G.H.D. on the top strap.
What year is this.
Thanks Jess
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If your SN has a V-prefix, that would be from the Summer of 1943.
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09-07-2013, 02:38 PM
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I'd like to add my pre-Victories and one Victory to data base:
687046 4 inch bbl, polished, commercial blue finish. All serial nos. match including grips. Grips are checkered walnut with silver medallion. 38 S&W ctg. NOT marked South Africa. Usual Brit export marks.
707885 6 inch bbl, finish is, I think, brushed blue. At least 85% plus finish remains and it is not as high a luster as , for instance, the 4” blued revolver above. Non-matching grips. P marked on butt and four small dots forming a square or parallelogram. Usual Brit. Export marks. No US property mark.
938830 5 inch , 38 S&W ctg. Suncorite finish. Gun is loaded with markings. Butt is marked with Canadian C with Broad Arrow, flaming bomb, and P.. Near grip hump on right is FTR, not dated. Curious mark shown in my photo above trigger guard on right that is somewhat similar to the Suncorite finished gun on page 110 of Charles Pate's book. This mark possibly was added after the Suncorite finish as the paint looks chipped by the marking. All serial nos. match including the smooth walnut grips. I thought this surprising on an FTR gun! No US property mark.
986995 4 inch, 38 Special ctg. Sandblast Black finish . No property marks. No proof marks outside.
V1372 4 inch, 38 Special ctg., came to me with an awful, worn, ill-polished blue finish that I assume was applied by surplus arms dealer. Non-original grips. Gun now has sand blast blue finish. No flaming bomb. No property marks. All serial nos. except grips match.
Pics of the Suncorite finished gun:
Pre-Victory, 38 Spec.(above) , and V1372 (below)
another shot of V1372, right side.
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09-28-2013, 04:07 PM
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Some more numbers/dates for the data base
Received letters back on three victories.
982936 4" 38 Special, shipped to the US Maritime Commission in San Francisco May 25 1942.
V589874 5" 38/200 shipped to the Hartford Ordinance Depot, for Eastern region Lend/Lease. Shipped May 9, 1944.
V191467 4".38 Special shipped to the US Navy Oakland CA on 28 December 1942.
Rick
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09-28-2013, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dangt
I'd like to add my pre-Victories and one Victory to data base.
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Dangt:
I missed your post the first time around. Sorry. I want to thank you for providing the data and the pics on your very nice collection of pre-Victory and Victory revolvers. This information will go into the Victory Model Database, which depends on collectors like you freely sharing your data.
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09-28-2013, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brigham33
Received letters back on three victories. Rick
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Hi Rick:
Thanks for sharing the valuable information on your three Victory Models. That shipping data really helps us to refine the accuracy and completeness of the Victory Model Database.
Would I be correct in assuming that V191467 has U.S. NAVY marked on the left top strap?
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Charlie Flick
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09-28-2013, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ordnanceguy
Hi Rick:
Thanks for sharing the valuable information on your three Victory Models. That shipping data really helps us to refine the accuracy and completeness of the Victory Model Database.
Would I be correct in assuming that V191467 has U.S. NAVY marked on the left top strap?
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Hello Charlie, Yes its Navy marked as I recall.
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09-29-2013, 04:44 PM
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I have just come to own a S&W Victory Model 38S&W.All matching numbers. Serial number is V2956xx. It has the flaming bomb and US Property with appropriate inspector initials. Parkerized. Can provide pictures if necessary. I am new to the forum and hope to read and post as necessary.
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10-17-2013, 06:18 PM
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Victory to add to DB
I recently traded for this Victory revolver so I would have one to work on while taking a gunsmithing certification course. I researched the serial number and was surprised to learn of its history. The serial # is V245686. It does have the letters HD stamped before the V on the butt, but perpendicular to the serial number. Given the lack of any property or ordinance marks, I am guessing it was a British lend-lease. It is in decent shape in terms of function and shoots well. The only issue is that is was chrome or nickel plated at some point. I have never read that these were plated at the factory. I was considering having it stripped and a more original looking finish applied. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
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10-17-2013, 06:57 PM
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That's a good one for your purpose, as it has no collector value. It was probably shipped around March 1943. Neither the finish nor the grips are original. You did not give the caliber stamping on the barrel, but if it is .38 S&W, it would have been for the British. But if so, at that time, it would have had U. S. Property stampings on the top strap (indicating Lend-Lease). With the 4" barrel, as shown, my guess is that it was a .38 S&W Special DSC contract revolver intended for stateside service (police, defense plant security guards, etc). Those would not have been property stamped, and would have been chambered in .38 S&W Special. There are other possible explanations.
No good idea as to what the HD means, but it could have been the initials of a company indicating that it was the property of a defense contractor.
See the link on the posting above yours.
Last edited by DWalt; 10-17-2013 at 07:08 PM.
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10-17-2013, 07:34 PM
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Thanks DWalt! Actually, the barrel is stamped 38 S&W CTG, so its not a 38 special.
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10-17-2013, 07:46 PM
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That being the case, and as the barrel, frame, and cylinder SNs match, it's strange that it has a 4" barrel (5" was typical for .38/200 revolvers) and stranger still that there are no "U. S. (or United States) Property" stampings on the top strap, nor any inspector markings. Possibly they were buffed off prior to plating, and the barrel shortened. Can you tell if the chambers have been bored out to accept .38 Special cartridges?
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10-18-2013, 09:20 AM
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I thought so, too
Hi Dwalt. I also thought it strange that the barrel seems short. It is very hard to tell if it was shortened, though. If it was, it was expertly done. The chambers measure .387 at the back, and .357 at the front. The back end of the chambers are not relieved. I took a close look to see if there are any remnants of stamped letters. I did find the remnant of an "S" to the left of and below the caliber markings on the barrel. Curious, isn't it?
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10-18-2013, 10:01 AM
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The simplest test for a re-bored chamber is to see if a .38 Special cartridge can be inserted into the chambers completely.
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10-22-2013, 06:56 PM
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need info ..
I came across a s&w 38 and am looking for info on it .. the numbers on but are v410xxx i believe it is a 2" barrel and rough walnut handle no insignia of s&W on grip i want to say it is double action with a firing pin( new to this ) numbers on inside of gun are d14717 thats all that is on it .. any info would help thank you .. glad i found the forum
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10-22-2013, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by needinginfo
I came across a s&w 38 and am looking for info on it .. the numbers on but are v410xxx i believe it is a 2" barrel and rough walnut handle no insignia of s&W on grip i want to say it is double action with a firing pin( new to this ) numbers on inside of gun are d14717 thats all that is on it .. any info would help thank you .. glad i found the forum
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You really should post a picture. Very few Victories left the factory with a 2" barrel, and are highly desirable as a result, but a huge number of the British Victories (.38/200) had their barrels chopped shorter and chambers re-bored to accept .38 Special cartridges after the war. A correct 2" barrel will have an extractor rod support lug affixed to the barrel beneath the muzzle. A chopped barrel will have no lug. So it's easy to tell which you have.
That serial number (V410xxx) would have shipped around September 1943. The other number means nothing, just a parts assembly marking.
Last edited by DWalt; 10-22-2013 at 07:10 PM.
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10-22-2013, 07:25 PM
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no lug on barrel .. shame .. well anyways what would the value be on it? im a little low on rent and am maybe looking into selling it to cover a little of what i owe
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10-22-2013, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by needinginfo
no lug on barrel .. shame .. well anyways what would the value be on it? im a little low on rent and am maybe looking into selling it to cover a little of what i owe
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Unfortunately, not very much. The only value it has is as a shooter. In a private sale, maybe $200. To a dealer, much less. Virtually no collector would be interested in it.
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10-24-2013, 06:39 PM
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DSC Victory Model
Mine is a civilian issue DSC piece that went to the Forth Worth PD in May of 1944. Everything about it is clean and tight and the action is typically butter smooth. Still would like to find out what it's worth if anyone knows...
Oh, and I got it in a trade for a No. 4 Enfield that I paid almost nothing for
Last edited by roundels; 10-26-2013 at 10:42 AM.
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380, cartridge, certificate, commercial, gunsmith, k frame, leather, military, model 10, parkerized, postwar, scope, sideplate, sig arms, smith and wesson, smith-wessonforum.com, springfield, stag, swca, trademark, united states property, victory, walnut, wondersight, wwii |
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