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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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  #1451  
Old 08-31-2016, 09:58 AM
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Default For Those Who Like These WWII Handguns

Here is a link to a thread I just posted over in the "Other Brands" section. If you enjoy looking at WWII military issued sidearms I believe you'll enjoy these.

Link> http://smith-wessonforum.com/firearm...#post139230441
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Old 08-31-2016, 02:40 PM
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Default Last One, I Promise

But I couldn't resist posing the Victory with the Marine Aviator. He is clearly wearing his Victory and his Navy issued Ordnance Department watch.

So, I dug out my 1943 Elgin ORG. DEPT. watch which looks a lot like his. I think it makes a great "prop" to compliment the Victory.



OK! I promise! No more photos of my Victory.
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Old 09-01-2016, 10:05 AM
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Trying to help out a youtuber who left a comment on a Hickok45 video asking about the approximate ship date of his Victory (V200902) and its likely destination. (I do not know the caliber or barrel length.) Left a comment myself, pointing him to this forum and to the S&W Historical Foundation, but then curiosity got the better of me, so I thought I'd bounce the serial number off of you guys ...
Likely December 1942.
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Old 09-01-2016, 05:24 PM
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Trying to help out a youtuber who left a comment on a Hickok45 video asking about the approximate ship date of his Victory (V200902) and its likely destination. (I do not know the caliber or barrel length.) Left a comment myself, pointing him to this forum and to the S&W Historical Foundation, but then curiosity got the better of me, so I thought I'd bounce the serial number off of you guys ...
January 1943 is a more likely shipping date. Regarding its initial destination, the chances are heavily in favor of its having shipped to some military facility or depot, and it would have a U. S. PROPERTY or U. S. NAVY topstrap stamping. You did not provide that information, probably because you do not have it. Without a topstrap stamping, a factory letter would probably tell you that it was shipped to some civilian destination (such as a police department or defense contractor), and more exactly where.

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Old 09-01-2016, 10:23 PM
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January 1943 is a more likely shipping date. Regarding its initial destination, the chances are heavily in favor of its having shipped to some military facility or depot, and it would have a U. S. PROPERTY or U. S. NAVY topstrap stamping. You did not provide that information, probably because you do not have it. Without a topstrap stamping, a factory letter would probably tell you that it was shipped to some civilian destination (such as a police department or defense contractor), and more exactly where.
And it could also be a British Service Revolver, a possibility given that we don't have any distinguishing feature yet.
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Old 09-06-2016, 07:55 AM
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We do not see Victory models often here in Toronto. But I saw one yesterday at an online site and asked for pictures before buying - $150us.

But I would like to know the approximate ship date before concluding the deal. Serial number is V295632

It is a 38 S&W. There is no finish left on the gun.To me, this is how many Victory guns appear in pictures, but i could be wrong.

The lanyard ring is there, but there is no serial number on the butt. The owner says it has been machined off. It is hard to tell from the pictures. I can see no evidence of a serial number or any marks from machining. Is it possible a serial number was not placed there or that a repair might have removed it? I am not familiar with what the SOP would be in this case. There is a serial number marked under the barrel.

It cycles and locks up well.

It says "US Property G.H.D." on the top strap so I am guessing that it was part of the Lend-Lease program.

Bore and cylinders are in good shape. Bore is very shiny.

Thoughts? Age? Value?
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Old 09-06-2016, 08:53 AM
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In the US, under state and Federal laws, that would an illegal weapon due to having the serial number removed.

It's a shame, as that Victory doesn't look bad at all.

Is .38 S&W ammo available at a reasonable price?
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Old 09-06-2016, 09:28 AM
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Is .38 S&W ammo available at a reasonable price?
Never seen it at retail recently. Handloading I guess. I did see brass though recently.
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Old 09-06-2016, 11:00 AM
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Yep, not legal in the US. Don't know Canadian law. You might want to check the cylinder chambers to see if it has been reamed for .38 Special. That was a popular modification. Of course, .38/200 Webley (.38 S&W) was the official cartridge of the Commonwealth and should be readily available up there.
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Old 09-06-2016, 11:05 AM
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The gun is from mid-1943. The lighting in the pictures makes it hard to tell, but you may be mistaking the original dull greyish phosphate finish for "no finish left"; happens a lot, if you haven't seen a lot of these in natural light. To me the surface actually looks quite good.

Your photos don't show all pertinent areas, but I don't see any post-war British proof marks, which is uncommon. But you are correct that it was a Lend-lease gun which (in the absence of any other country-specific markings) would have shipped to Britain.

Except for the butt. All butt markings have simply been ground off. As Muley Gil has pointed out, in the US, that's bad news. If you can own it legally like that, the price would be attractive, of course.

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Old 09-06-2016, 11:18 AM
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I finally picked up a victory. I was sort of waiting for the exact right one to come up and it did. I've long wanted to post here asking about where a victory may of gone, but no Victory model before this one was quite right for my somewhat eclectic collection.

In this case, I'm wondering if it is going to be possible to figure out who the (undoubtedly over the top) character who had these stocks made for the gun was. I figured this was the place to start. I can get better pictures once the gun is in hand, hopefully by next week.







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Old 09-06-2016, 11:24 AM
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I finally picked up a victory. I was sort of waiting for the exact right one to come up and it did. I've long wanted to post here asking about where a victory may of gone, but no Victory model before this one was quite right for my somewhat eclectic collection.

In this case, I'm wondering if it is going to be possible to figure out who the (undoubtedly over the top) character who had these stocks made for the gun was. I figured this was the place to start. I can get better pictures once the gun is in hand, hopefully by next week.







Now that is a gun with character!
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Old 09-06-2016, 11:28 AM
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Now that is a gun with character!
Hah, yeah.

Honestly I've not bought any guns since April, and then suddenly this and two others popped up, making the beginning of September one of my most expensive gun buying binge months on record.. just a few days in.

The thing is that the more I looked at this one the less I could resist it. There must be story here, somewhere. With a gun like this, how could there not be!
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Old 09-06-2016, 11:33 AM
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Nice gun with very cool grips!
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Old 09-06-2016, 11:35 AM
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.....
In this case, I'm wondering if it is going to be possible to figure out who the (undoubtedly over the top) character who had these stocks made for the gun was. I figured this was the place to start...
Ummm.... wow. Talk about lipstick on a pig. Although I like these particular pigs. And the lipstick is indeed over the top .

The gun is from fall 1942. If it is U.S. PROPERTY stamped, the gun itself will be a dead end, since it will have shipped to a naval depot (most likely) or other "wholesale" location and that's all a letter would tell you.

If the topstrap is empty, a letter might tell you in more detail where the gun shipped originally. Maybe a police officer got it under a DSC contract and decided to enhance its appearance.

But just as likely someone acquired the gun without leaving a paper trail to the Victory program, so for the provenance of the stocks, experts on custom stock artwork will be of more help than Victory nerds .
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Old 09-06-2016, 12:22 PM
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Ummm.... wow. Talk about lipstick on a pig. Although I like these particular pigs. And the lipstick is indeed over the top .

The gun is from fall 1942. If it is U.S. PROPERTY stamped, the gun itself will be a dead end, since it will have shipped to a naval depot (most likely) or other "wholesale" location and that's all a letter would tell you.

If the topstrap is empty, a letter might tell you in more detail where the gun shipped originally. Maybe a police officer got it under a DSC contract and decided to enhance its appearance.

But just as likely someone acquired the gun without leaving a paper trail to the Victory program, so for the provenance of the stocks, experts on custom stock artwork will be of more help than Victory nerds .
Thank you very much, I suspected as much.

I guess I am hoping that there are some records that the thing went somewhere that at least narrows down my search for The Greek. I figure that if I can find the general place it went to, I figure someone who would pay to make such stocks for this gun, with a nickname like The Greek, might just be a guy someone wrote about at some time.
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Old 09-06-2016, 12:23 PM
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Had to have been on the roof with Zorba!
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Old 09-08-2016, 09:27 PM
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Thank you very much, I suspected as much.

I guess I am hoping that there are some records that the thing went somewhere that at least narrows down my search for The Greek. I figure that if I can find the general place it went to, I figure someone who would pay to make such stocks for this gun, with a nickname like The Greek, might just be a guy someone wrote about at some time.
My Victory is described a couple pages back. It lettered to my grandfather by name, although I still don't know how he qualified to receive the gun. I join you in hoping that a letter will reveal the identity of The Greek.

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Old 09-09-2016, 12:23 AM
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Is the insert at the top of those grips abalone shell? Is the grip material Micarta? Ivory? These may be clues.

This could be "theater work" by a craftsman like those who used odd materials aboard ship to replace gun and knife handles. Many used canopy material from crashed aircraft, but other materials were also employed.
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Old 10-04-2016, 09:41 AM
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I got one and would love some info on it SN is V 747742
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  #1471  
Old 10-04-2016, 10:08 AM
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V 747742 would date its shipment to early 1945, probably January. With the 5" barrel, it is probably chambered in .38 S&W, not .38 Special, and was originally made for British Commonwealth use. What caliber is stamped on the barrel? However, it may well have been re-chambered to accept .38 Special. Many of the British Victories were in the post-WWII era. Victories were never nickel plated at the factory, as yours is, so that was done elsewhere, essentially destroying any collectible value it might otherwise have.
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Old 10-06-2016, 12:58 AM
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Default 2 inch Victory

Hi all, I started reading up on these and notice it says the 2" barrel is scarce. Just how rare are they?

Thanks
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Old 10-06-2016, 02:01 AM
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Hi all, I started reading up on these and notice it says the 2" barrel is scarce. Just how rare are they?

Thanks
According to Charles Pate, which AFAIK is the best information we have, between 800 and 1,300 were originally made with a 2" barrel and an additional unknown number "in the low thousands" were converted to 2" after the war.

Victorys with 2" barrels draw exorbitant prices due solely to their rarity. I actually think the market is a bit out of whack and they are somewhat overvalued, since they really have no historical or technical significance beyond the fact that there aren't a lot of them, but whenever I point that out, I get in trouble here.
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Old 10-06-2016, 09:05 AM
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V 747742 would date its shipment to early 1945, probably January. With the 5" barrel, it is probably chambered in .38 S&W, not .38 Special, and was originally made for British Commonwealth use. What caliber is stamped on the barrel? However, it may well have been re-chambered to accept .38 Special. Many of the British Victories were in the post-WWII era. Victories were never nickel plated at the factory, as yours is, so that was done elsewhere, essentially destroying any collectible value it might otherwise have.
Hey thanks for the reply and info, that sucks about the nickel plating but oh well it's still a nice piece of history. It does say on the barrel .38 S&W and was rechambered to except the .38 special. I just got it like a week ago and never shot it, is it safe to shoot?
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Old 10-06-2016, 09:25 AM
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A common question, and the short answer is yes. The chambers being oversize will allow the case to expand upon firing, usually producing a bulged case. While I have never personally had it happen, some report fired cases having longitudinal splits. Even so, that is not unsafe. I have had many other instances of split cases in other calibers, and you don't even know it happened until the case is extracted.
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Old 10-06-2016, 07:51 PM
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Right on man thanks allot I feel a little better I was almost getting worried there for a sec lol probly soundnt shoot +p rounds through it though huh?
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Old 10-06-2016, 10:18 PM
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Right on man thanks allot I feel a little better I was almost getting worried there for a sec lol probably shoundnt shoot +p rounds through it though huh?
I wouldn't recommend it, but I suspect that even if you did, nothing bad would happen. However, some +P loads with the 125 grain bullet have been known to cause forcing cone splits. I have little good to say about the practice of shooting +P loads as an everyday thing.
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Old 10-06-2016, 10:31 PM
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Alright yeah I wasn't even really planning on shooting any +p anyways. One more question, could I shoot .38 s&w rounds through it to?
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Old 10-06-2016, 10:33 PM
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Sure-if you can find any or you are a reloader.
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Old 10-06-2016, 10:36 PM
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Right on man I appreciate all your help thanks allot
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Old 10-06-2016, 10:49 PM
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Sorry, I forgot to post for your database.

Serial: V611556

Has sideways W before the serial.

Backstrap marking: WB-S-PFOR. 022

Backstrap meaning:

(WB)Allied Occupation District of Wurttemberg-Baden.
(S) Stadtpolizei
(PFOR) City of Pforzheim
(022) Inventory number

No top strap marking.

All matching.
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Old 10-10-2016, 05:12 PM
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Gentlemen, here's another for the database. s/n "V378657', topstrap marking - Ordnance stamp/flaming bomb, U.S. property GHD. 4" barrel, ~90% (NRA) all parts matching, including grips, missing lanyard loop.
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Old 10-10-2016, 05:30 PM
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Gentlemen, here's another for the database. s/n "V378657', topstrap marking - Ordnance stamp/flaming bomb, U.S. property GHD. 4" barrel, ~90% (NRA) all parts matching, including grips, missing lanyard loop.
Sounds like a nice one. A standard military-shipped one likely from summer 1943. I think it would be worthwhile to look for an original lanyard swivel replacement. They can be regularly found on ebay and Gunbroker.
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Old 10-18-2016, 01:48 AM
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Default My 38 special

I got a victory with sn V477597
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Old 10-19-2016, 03:36 PM
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Saw one on consignment today, 4 inch 38 special, had later model 10 magna grips (no big deal, I guess) but someone had plugged up the lanyard ring hole with what looks like solder. S/N V320912, no U.S. property markings or anything exotic on it. Salesman said it had been sitting for some time and the owner was asking $450, which I find rather high considering it is currently in what I would call non-collectible condition. Finish is good, lock up tight and bore is shiny. Opinions on age or value? Thanks.
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Old 10-19-2016, 04:27 PM
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The gun would be a DSC gun (less likely Maritime Commission) from mid-1943. The magnas aren't necessarily much of a detriment, especially if they are reasonably early post-war diamond magnas. A soldered rather than metal-plugged hole would be more of an issue for me. I'd say that $450 is definitely $100-150 too high; for that you can get an all-original complete one in decent shape with a bit of diligent searching.

Last edited by Absalom; 10-19-2016 at 04:29 PM.
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Old 10-24-2016, 01:51 AM
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can someone help me out on this one
S&W Victory 38sp by John Hermesmeyer, on Flickr

S&W Victory 38sp by John Hermesmeyer, on Flickr

S&W Victory 38sp by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/jhermesmeyer/]John H

S/N V124477
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Old 10-24-2016, 08:21 AM
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It's a high-condition .38 Special Victory which shipped around November 1942. If the topstrap has no property stamp, it's probably a DSC gun. Its condition would support that. Military Victories are not often found in that high condition. I have a DSC Victory on my list which has a SN less than 30 away from this one which shipped on 11/14/42.
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Old 10-24-2016, 08:16 PM
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Thanks man
waiting on the invoice information so i can send the seller my FFL info and payment
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Old 11-12-2016, 05:28 PM
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WARNING!!

The following may contain images that are NSFP.
(That's Not Safe For Purists.)


Howdy all! Been lurking for a while, feels like being the new guy on the job surrounded by folks who match the old cliché "Already forgotten more than you'll ever know." I figured this is a way to contribute, even if it's just another number to the pile.

What little I know about this Victory I got from this thread, and yes I read all of it. Chambered in .38 Special, the serial number suggests shipping in early 1945, apparently one of the last ones with the old-style hammer block mounted in the sideplate. The serial number on the butt is repeated in the usual places. No martial markings, no P's, no S's, no W's, so most likely destined for the DSC. It's been bubba'd a bit: Blued, chrome hammer & trigger (dig that engine turning, hepcats!), post-war stocks and a modified front sight.

When I got it the hole for the lanyard ring had been filled... with dirt! I cleaned it out and ordered a ring & pin from Numrich, since it just didn't seem right w/o one. I put on the Tyler T-Grip as well. Apologies for the variation in the lighting. Don't know what happened with the light on the cylinder turn ring in the starboard view, it doesn't look like that IRL.








I tried to get some impression of the surface to help determine if it had been refinished, since I had read that some Victorys had been sent out blued with no military markings, but thanks to this thread I now know that those were very early guns, not very late ones. From what I can tell from the pics of other Victorys posted, this is likely the original metal finish and it was just blued over.





The front sight was a bit of a mystery: I knew it wasn't original, nor was it the later serrated style where they cut a ramp into the half-moon, but the sight certainly looked original to the barrel. Then when I got it under some magnified light I saw it had been built up from the half-moon. Has anybody ever seen a mod like this before? It certainly seems fifties-ish.




It was non-op when I got it, but $20 worth of parts (not counting the lanyard ring and T-Grip) and my BFH made it a reliable shooter.
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Old 11-12-2016, 07:27 PM
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No question about its being refinished. And someone took a file or grinder to the front sight. Also someone jeweled the hammer and trigger. Interesting that it's the highest V-series revolver SN on my list. I show some SVs with lower SNs. It's possible yours may have the highest V-series SN known. Some others may comment about that.

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Old 11-12-2016, 08:44 PM
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Thanks for the expert input, I feel like I'm helping!

If you look close at the starboard side pic of the front sight, you can see the outline of the half moon and where it was built up. There are a few light serrations on the base where they were continued from the blade. If this was, as suspected, an older mod, I'd guess it was brazed up as opposed to ye olde JB Weld. Don't feel like filing on it to find out.

One of these days I'm going to letter it. I imagine that unless it can be proven to be Harry Truman's personal sidearm or some such, it will never have any collector value, it's just for my own curiosity.

In case anybody's wondering, I got it in trade for some ammo that was worth about $170.
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Old 11-13-2016, 10:50 AM
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Under normal circumstances I wouldn't pay $75 to get a letter. But if you don't mind the cost, it might be interesting to see what the letter says, as I show SNs either side of yours which are prefixed SV, not V. Are you certain yours does not have the 1945 improved drop safety? Looking at the sight again, an original blade could not be modified to that shape. Someone has made a different front sight. What exactly is the barrel length - looks like it might be a little shorter than the 4" it should be.

Harry Truman's personal sidearm was a M1917, in the Truman museum. I don't remember if it was a Colt or a S&W.
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Old 11-13-2016, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt View Post
.....Looking at the sight again, an original blade could not be modified to that shape. Someone has made a different front sight. What exactly is the barrel length - looks like it might be a little shorter than the 4" it should be.
.....
The wide sight base seems original and integral to the barrel. It appears to me as if someone might have ground the top partially off and then soldered a differently shaped piece back on.
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Old 11-13-2016, 05:54 PM
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The wide sight base seems original and integral to the barrel. It appears to me as if someone might have ground the top partially off and then soldered a differently shaped piece back on.
For sure, it's not original.
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Old 11-13-2016, 07:50 PM
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Back with more pictures.

I spoze it's possible that someone retro-fit an earlier style sideplate & block for some reason. Here I tried to show the sideplate fit.




Does the assembly number(?) on the sideplate provide any clues?



Here da innards, could not get a clear focused image to save my neck.




More on the front site:

Height from bottom of barrel to apogee of halfmoon/point of tangent, best I could judge: 0.862
Width of front sight blade at front: 0.063
Width of front sight blade at rear: 0.096
Widths measured just above the radius from the base.






Upon further review, I don't believe there's brazing involved, since the color of the metal exposed on top of the blade doesn't change. Solder? Whatever it is, even under my C.S.I. style magnifier/lamp I couldn't see any seam nor color transition.

ETA: Barrel length is 3.92 per ancient vernier calipers & similarly ancient eyes.
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Old 11-13-2016, 07:56 PM
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It does not have the improved hammer drop safety feature. The 21655 stamping on the inner surface of the sideplate is an assembly matching number, not a SN. Does it match the assembly numbers inside the yoke area? It looks as though the rear grooved area of the front sight has somehow been attached to the original sight blade, maybe by silver soldering. 3.92" is close enough to 4".

Last edited by DWalt; 11-13-2016 at 08:02 PM.
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Old 11-13-2016, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt View Post
Under normal circumstances I wouldn't pay $75 to get a letter. But if you don't mind the cost, it might be interesting to see what the letter says, as I show SNs either side of yours which are prefixed SV, not V. Are you certain yours does not have the 1945 improved drop safety? Looking at the sight again, an original blade could not be modified to that shape. Someone has made a different front sight. What exactly is the barrel length - looks like it might be a little shorter than the 4" it should be.

Harry Truman's personal sidearm was a M1917, in the Truman museum. I don't remember if it was a Colt or a S&W.
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Old 11-13-2016, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt View Post
It does not have the improved hammer drop safety feature. The 21655 stamping on the inner surface of the sideplate is an assembly matching number, not a SN. Does it match the assembly numbers inside the yoke area? It looks as though the rear grooved area of the front sight has somehow been attached to the original sight blade, maybe by silver soldering. 3.92" is close enough to 4".
- Well nobody said it was a serial number, and yup the number on the frame under the yoke matches.



- I guess it's not coming through in the pics, but under glass you can clearly see the full profile of the halfmoon shape in the front sight. It's been added to, not subtracted from, unless you count the two or three serrations on the base continued from the addition. The taper in width from front to back is another matter, I don't know if that's original or if the gunsmith who did the mods was showing off.

- There I was going to give you credit for spotting the barrel was 0.008" short!

ETA: And sorry, the barrel measurement was 3.992".
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Old 11-15-2016, 01:01 AM
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Hello, I am new to the forum. Is the victory database still going? I have six I would like to add and get any info possible....
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