Welcome, from one of the relatively rookie followers of this forum. Yes, we're active and very interested to learn about your six...6!!!...Victories. Please post serial numbers and pictures, particularly of any markings on the top strap and/or back strap, if you can. I suspect that one of the experts on this forum - DWalt or Absalom - will get back to you soon.

This U.S. Navy marked victory serial numbered V1767xx matches everything except the grips. If you folks have the time would you guestimate a approximate ship date. Thanks

terry

Likely it shipped in December 1942.

Whoa, dude. That's rather a harsh criticism of a guy who is an ardent supporter of the S&W Victory.

Could it be that since you are the Assistant Historian of S&W archives you're simply aggravated that his comment may cost your department some revenue? Methinks sour grapes. $75 is a lot for a "letter" which probably won't shed much light on most WWII Victorys.

I, for one, genuinely appreciate DWALT and his contributions to this thread.

.

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Illegitimi Non Carborundum

Thank you Sir!

terry

I went through the thread again and found these Victorys with higher non-S serial numbers. Interesting that they're both BSRs that have been converted to .22 caliber, the first as a .22 Magnum, the second unspecified as to the type of .22.

Post #151
Post #1361
Have these been discounted as to having genuine non-S serials?

ETA: Found another one, also a BSR.

Post #211

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TEAM DNF

I have a Victory revolver I would like some information on. Serial number is V664689. This is stamped on the butt, underside of the barrel and on the cylinder. Grips are not original and the lanyard ring has been cut off sometime in the past. No US markings. Any information you could provide would be appreciated.

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S/W Victory, 4" barrel, .38 special, all matching. V353397

S/W letter; shipped on July 9, 1943 to the U.S. Navy, Oakland, CA. Not NAVY marked, only GHD.

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It appears to be one of the relatively few Victory-model snubbies made. They are very desirable. Someone has jeweled the hammer on yours, also it has what appear to be postwar fake stag plastic grips (probably Franzite), and those do affect its value negatively. On the upside, the finish appears to be original and correct. These were not used by the military, but were distributed to essential civilian users (police, etc.) during WWII through the Defense Supplies Corporation (DSC). I think that If I had it, I'd find an original hammer and lanyard swivel (the swivel hole has been plugged), and also original smooth wood grips. All are available. These are somewhat difficult to date based upon the SN alone, but it is likely yours shipped sometime in late 1944 or early 1945. I would recommend you get a factory letter ($75).

Thank you DWalt. I have already sent my info for a factory letter. I would like to put it back to a more original look. Where can I look for the parts you mentioned?

EBay is your best bet for Victory parts.

Guy

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

Yes, eBay is the first place to look, especially for grips and lanyard swivels. But there are numerous other gun part dealers you can find on the internet. SARCO sometimes has Victory parts, or maybe Gun Parts, Inc. (Numrich). Or someone on the forum may have one they would sell you. Hammers are relatively plentiful. The hammer used on Victories is not the same as those used on guns made in 1948 or later, so be sure you get the earlier hammer style. You might well be able to sell the existing hammer on eBay for nearly enough to buy a replacement.

I purchased a Victory today at an auction. Mechanically it is 100% sound and I have no issues firing it, but cosmetically, it is pretty rough.

But I bought it because it was cheap, and it has a very low serial number. It is serial number V2973. Its the lowest number I've ever seen.

I can't really find any military stampings on the gun. Right under the cylinder release, there is a light hand engraving that reads "USG 6566".

The cylinder is stamped with a V and 2973. The back of the ejector star is stamped 2973. So serial number matches there.

The frame is stamped "M 35764"and the crane stamped "35764". So those match as well.

Barrel is stamped V2973 as well. I did notice something weird about the barrel, but maybe it is normal. If I run my finger along the sides, and as much of the bottom as possible, it feels pretty smooth. But along the top, between site and frame, it feels "rippled" slightly. I can almost make out what looks to be a series of flat-ish spots. The bore feels complete smooth though. Maybe some guy used the top of the barrel as a hammer at some point?

Chambered in .38 S&W Special. 4" Barrel. Original swivel has been replaced with some modern aftermarket job. A vintage off a salvage gun is on its way to me.

I heard the first 40,000 were all US Navy guns and serial #'s started with 1. So I assume this was one of those guns?

Anything you can tell me would be appreciated. I'm thinking it's better to leave it with its "character" than try to make it cosmetically pretty.

Do these early numbers sell for any kind of premium? I'm torn between keeping and selling.

The more I think about this little gun, the more I think it may be a keeper. My truck looks like a big hunk of junk and is patched together more than anyone will know, but she runs strong. The Millennium Falcon is my favorite sci-fi spaceship because its the "fastest hunk of junk in the galaxy", and "she's got it where it counts".

And this gun looks like its been through the ringer, but it works as smooth as silk and functions perfectly! It clearly has character!

Here she is!

Certainly "rode hard and put up wet", but to us Victory owners/fans, she's gorgeous. Congratulations on a great find! I would not touch it other than to replace the swivel, as you are doing. I'm anxious to read comments from the experts here.

Dates from Aug 1942. They're all keepers in my book. I just can't afford to keep em' all!

Most likely Oct/Nov 1944 ship date. That one warrants a letter.

This one was most likely shipped to the United States Strategic Services (O.S.S.) due to the sideways "W". If it were mine, I'd have it lettered.

Just something to keep in mind regarding condition on these victories ( or most any military issue pistol and to some degree can be applied to most older police guns as well) I can tell you from my military experience guns get exterior wear out of proportion to the few rounds they fire. For example our m9's I carried in Afghanistan and Iraq typically each soldier shot at most 50 rounds in familiarization and a 40 shot qualification and nothing else for the remainder of the deployment unless drawn in anger, which I can think of only a handful of times during two years a pistol was fired. But at the same time they were a constant companion sliding around in holsters on dusty trails and in sandstorms. By the end of my first tour my initially "new" looking beretta could be mistaken for having left the factory as stainless.
Rough outside mint inside is about typical for a military pistol

I certainly hope you good folks don't mind but I have one right here in my hands that I picked up years ago and have just recently been doing some research on. s/n: V 748248. Not marked US government. .38 S&W chambered. Top right side of frame (9 o'clock from hammer nose) is a small P. Right side,underneath MADE IN USA is a crown with what looks like a GP (with the P 1/2 way up the G). This mark appears in 3 or 4 places on the revolver. 5-screw; 5" barrel, lanyard, walnut smooth stocks. Round front sight. It looks like there used to be something on the barrel, just ahead of the frame, top right (as sighting down the barrel). Several marks but someone has filed them off. 5-screw, long action, no bar safety. Inside cylinder marked with the same s/n as above.
Been poring over S&W Std Catalog (3rd Ed) and Roy Jinks History of S&W and the lead me to believe the Victory was made only in a 4" barrel. However, the Catalog does say some were sent to RCMP in a 5" barrel.
Any ideas as to what, when, etc.?
Many thanks!

As far as I know, all of the true Victory (V-prefix) BSRs chambered in .38 S&W had 5" barrels. There may be exceptions I am not aware of. The US version Victories chambered in .38 Special had 4" barrels, plus a very few with 2" barrels. V748248 likely shipped very early in 1945. You say yours does NOT have the "U.S. PROPERTY" stamping on the topstrap? That's odd.

Thanks. I've read so much today on several S&W guns that I probably got mixed up with the two different .38s.

My factory letter came in. Looks like it was shipped in January 1945 to Phil Daniels in Phoenix City, Fl.

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Is that correct? Maybe Phenix City AL? It's right outside Ft. Benning.

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

That's what Smith & Wesson says.

It could be a mistake. It's happened before. I would shoot Roy Jinks a PM and ask him to verify. Because there's not a Phoenix City Florida. There's a Panama City Florida and a Phenix City Alabama.

Guy

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

Hello All! I just found this forum while looking for some info on some old guns I got from my late grandfather. This post had been very helpful so far.

I think I have a pair of victory revolvers, though they have had quite different lives. I would appreciate any information or advise about these guns.


1. V767077 - Aside from the grips, this one looks original. Chambered in .38 S&W, 5" barrel. It has "US Property GHD." stamped on the top. I have not shot it due difficulty finding ammo, but I have gotten two boxes and am planning on shooting it next time I'm at the range.



2. V233280 - Yikes. I think this is one of those infamous drill press .38 Specials. The barrel has been cut down to about 2 1/4", and the gun has been nickel plated. There are no markings on top of the gun, but there are some other marks on the barrel that I don't think are original to the gun. Maybe done when this was converted? There is no loop on the bottom of the grip, but there I can see where it used to be. The last time I had this one at the range, it was splitting shell casings in one of the cylinders. I have not shot it since.

Bottom gun (2") is a barrel hacked British Service Revolver like the 1st gun. It was reamed for .38 Special which is smaller diameter than .38 S&W. If you shoot some .38 S&W, which you now have, in it, the cases won't split.

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

Soultrain13, both of your revolvers are what are known as British Service Revolvers (BSRs), made mainly for, you guessed it, the British, and some other commonwealth nations such as Canada and Australia.

V767077 was likely shipped in 1945, V233280 a few years earlier. The remains of the markings on the later that were left after refinishing were most likely the proof marks put on surplussed revolvers by the British government before they could be sold on the civilian market. Before reading this thread I had no idea that there was a metric ton of these "chopped & bored" surplus BSRs out there, and it seems the majority of them were plated and had plastic bone style stocks installed. The work was done after re-importation to try and make them more attractive for sale. Most experts say that it should be ok to shoot these with lower pressure .38 Specials, even if they split the cases, but personally I wouldn't want to shoot one even with .38 S&W cartridges due to the missing front extractor rod lock up. They have no value to a collector, just whatever someone would be willing to pay for a cheap shooter, say $200 range.

There should be the same added proof marks on V767077, if it had been in British hands and released through normal channels. Maybe this one was never entered into British service, or perhaps it sorta followed somebody home outside of official channels.

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TEAM DNF

Thanks for the replies all!

I have a set of smooth walnut grips on the way from Ebay for V767077. I like the way they look plus it will put it back to the correct look. My grandfather had a buddy who was an amateur gunsmith, so I thought V233280 was chopped by him, but after reading this thread, and seeing several conversions that look nearly identical, I'm not so sure now.

I know my grandfather bought these from a Toledo OH, pawn shop sometime in the 1950's or 1960's. There is a family story about V767077 being surplus from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. Unfortunately, the people I can ask only half remember. I looked it over, and there are no extra marks on it like on V233280. Thanks to mostly you guys, I have deciphered most of the markings on it. The only one I'm having trouble with is the one in front of the trigger guard underneath the cylinders. It looks like a pair of crossed swords, with a 1 on the left, a 2 on the bottom, and what I can only describe as a cat head on the right.

The crossed swords is the proof house view mark. The numbers indicate where, when and by whom the gun was proofed. The Letter on the left indicates the year...a K would be 1959. The 2 is the rank of the inspector...the lower the higher the rank. And the B on the right indicates the Birmingham proof house. The proofing and all the stamps were only done when the gun was released from military to public usage.

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

As far as V767077 is concerned, with the lend-lease property markings, and no additional stamps, the RCMP connection will likely remain unconfirmed.

The early Canadian-shipped BSR's did receive the broad-arrow-in-a-C Canadian property mark, but those were military guns, and whether this continued, let alone consistently, after the start of lend-lease, I am not sure.

On lend-lease guns, the history letter will show shipment to Hartford Ordnance Depot, with no info on further destinations.

Any secondary police career post-war would not be reflected anyways.

V767077 indicates it's a very late Victory without the improved hammer drop safety, with likely shipment sometime in early 1945. In fact it is the highest V-series SN I have listed. With the various proof markings, I'd suspect it is not connected to the RCMP.

What about V769527, or V769240, as previously posted in this thread? The other one higher than mine, but lower than Soultrain13's V767077, is V765493. All four of these are BSRs.

And a bit of a miscommunication with Soultrain13, the British proof marks visible in the additional pics are the "added proof marks" I was alluding to.

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TEAM DNF

FYI. There was a Phil Daniels in Phenix City, AL who worked at Cunningham Fence. My guess is that if you were near a military base, and you were a company that installed/sold fencing during WWII, then you probably had military contracts. Thus the DoD issued firearms to defense contractors.

If you can document this guy, that's a good lead. Especially near military bases, there was hardly any manufacturing business that did not have some war-related contracts. Remembering previous discussions about DSC Victorys lettering as shipped to an individual whose association was not identified further, it usually turned out he was a manager at a company like that, or alternatively a police official.

"What about V769527, or V769240, as previously posted in this thread?"
I found another one on my list (which was out of order) with an even higher SN: V774890 which shipped on 1/31/45. On my list are quite a few SV-series Victories having lower SNs. It makes one wonder what the highest-known V-series SN is. And the lowest of the SV-series.

Hi, I have a Victory with a bunch of numbers on it. The bottom of the grip frame on the rear half has V332, the front half looks like WB on the top and maybe half of an 8 on the bottom - these are on either side of the lanyard ring. The back strap has what looks like N ^ Z and 5397 below that. The cylinder are and frame strap (?) are both marked V 46298 (with the V above the number). The top strap is marked "UNITED STATES PROPERTY". It will not chamber a 38 special, but does chamber a 38 SW and the barrel is marked "38 S&W CTG" on the side. Top of the barrel has the company name, and several patented dates, Feb 08, Sept 09, Dec 14. Can you tell me anything about this model?

Welcome to the forum. You have a lend-lease British Service Revolver from 1942. Let's deal with the stampings in the order you mention them.

V332 is the serial. WB are the initials of the ordnance inspector Waldemar Broberg, the "8" is actually a "flaming bomb" symbol.

The backstrap markings denote New Zealand service.

I can't make sense of the sentence "The cylinder are and frame strap (?) are both marked V 46298 (with the V above the number)"
If you are referring to the cylinder ARM and the area we call the yoke, those numbers are meaningless to us as they are just factory-internal assembly numbers.

The topstrap property marking denotes the lend-lease status.

The gun appears to not have been converted and still be in its original .38 S&W caliber, or .38/200, as it was also called, the official British army caliber.

The markings on top of the barrel are standard factory patent dates.

Hi,
Just picked up my second Smith and Wesson and my first Victory.
SN# V (lanyard hole) 478636

It is in excellent mechanical condition with strong rifling and tight lock-up. Looks nice, too, however it does appear to have been modified a bit. On the top strap is the ordinance bomb with "US PROPERTY GHD"(this marking is obscured and barely discernible). There is a "P" stamp behind the cylinder just below the top strap; after the SN under the barrel; and on the rear cylinder face. The right side of the 4" barrel indicates "38 S&W special ctg".

The finish is a deep blue with little wear at the edges. Sadly, the trigger and hammer are jeweled. The walnut grips are diamond checkered over the entire surface except the bottom. The revolver came with a black Redhead holster marked 206HDB.

What can anyone tell me about what I've got? Is there any chance the finish may be original?
Thanks,
Chris

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass, Chris! At the time it was manufactured (1943 is my guess), S&W was putting a phosphate finish on the Victories. So, no, the finish is not original just like the jeweling and the checkered stocks. How about a picture or 2?

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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629

SN V 478636 would likely have shipped about December 1943 based on other nearby SNs. Indeed, the blued finish and jeweled T&H brand it as not being in original condition.

The gun looks better than the cell phone pictures reveal. I suppose the refinish job is responsible for the obscurity of the markings. I am anxious to get this out and put a few rounds through it, though!

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The US property stamping was relatively thin and shallow, and the prep work to put a decent bluing in place of the relatively rough original phosphate can easily obscure or even obliterate it. Serial and P proof stampings were struck considerably deeper.

The gun may not have any collectability left, but you do have a solid fixed-sight .38 Special shooter that should survive you no matter how much you shoot it. The blue looks well-done, and the grips are likely more secure to grasp than the originals. Personally, I find any kind of jewelling visually ghastly and would probably replace trigger and hammer with (easily found) original case-colored ones, but that's just cosmetic .

The original purpose of jeweling metal surfaces was to retain lubricant and reduce friction. It gradually achieved some status as a visual enhancement on guns and many other items. I personally don't like the jeweled appearance but I guess it's OK for those who do.

I totally agree about the jewelling. Is there anything I specifically need to look out for in finding case-hardened replacements?

I have a s&w victory with the following markings: V 281445. I saw on a previous post that you can provide information regarding the history and manufacture dates. I am just looking to see what year or range this was made during? It belonged to my grandfather. I have the original grips but i cant get them to fit. I believe the screw i have is too long

V 281445, by comparison to other Victories with nearby serial numbers, probably shipped about May 1943. You did not provide any additional information about your Victory, so that's about all that anyone can tell you.

I acquired this pistol recently and was wondering if anyone could tell me a little about it. The serial number is V 391555. There are no US military or British markings from what I can tell. The barrel is 4 inches and the front sight has been altered with a Parker Hale front sight and seems to be either chrome or nickle plated. I do not know if it was manufactured with the plating or if it was plated at a later point in its life. The lanyard ring is not present but there is an observable plugged hole where it would have been. If it is possible for anyone to discern its manufacturing date it would be much appreciated.

The serial puts the gun into later 1943. As the barrel is marked .38 S&W CTG, that identifies it as a former British Service Model. It would have originally looked like the gun in the attached picture. The barrel was shortened, a new front sight attached, and a new finish applied. Have you checked which caliber will fit the chambers? Many were converted to .38 Special without being so marked; you just have to try, or you can tell from looking through the cylinder if you know what to look for. Any marking may have fallen victim to the new nickel finish. The original smooth stocks were also replaced.

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