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03-31-2017, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LLOYD17
Picked up V16109 today. No official markings though someone scratched their name on the left side and USA on the butt to the left of where the lanyard should be. All numbers match including the stocks.
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Some likely storage and carry dings in the stocks and what looks like very little holster rub-off on the frame corners, but otherwise everything looks in pretty good condition. I don't even see much of a turn line.
An original replacement swivel should be easy to find on ebay or Gunbroker.
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04-01-2017, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Absalom
Some likely storage and carry dings in the stocks and what looks like very little holster rub-off on the frame corners, but otherwise everything looks in pretty good condition. I don't even see much of a turn line.
An original replacement swivel should be easy to find on ebay or Gunbroker.
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I just got one from Numrich Gun Parts Corp. Very nice.
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04-01-2017, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LLOYD17
Picked up V16109 today. No official markings though someone scratched their name on the left side and USA on the butt to the left of where the lanyard should be. All numbers match including the stocks.
Now I just need a letter and a lanyard. Then a picture next to my 228 as Past & Present Naval Aviator sidearms.
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What is stamped on the topstrap? At that time, Victories which were shipped to the Navy have "U.S. NAVY" stamped there, and that was the practice until about SN V260000. IF there is no stamp, as you seem to indicate, it's very likely it did not originally go to the Navy. And it would not be a Navy aviator's sidearm.
Last edited by DWalt; 04-01-2017 at 04:43 PM.
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04-01-2017, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt
What is stamped on the topstrap? At that time, Victories which were shipped to the Navy have "U.S. NAVY" stamped there, and that was the practice until about SN V260000. IF there is no stamp, as you seem to indicate, it's very likely it did not originally go to the Navy. And it would not be a Navy aviator's sidearm.
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You're correct, no stamp and I realize that most likely means it didn't ship to the Navy (though it appears not a definitive sign in a few cases). It's the correct configuration for a pilot's sidearm just as my 228 is the same configuration as the one I carried while flying over the desert but of course it wasn't shipped to the Navy either. I'm just happy to have a nice Victory even if it isn't Navy stamped.
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04-08-2017, 08:26 PM
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victory for data bank
I have victory to submit 4inch bbl 38 special.u s property on topstrap g h d and flaming bomb also. Flaming bomb on butt with serial # v268514 , same # on bbl, cyl, and grips also. cannot find proof mark ( p ) anywhere also no s on right frame or ( p ). I believe finish is park . any information greatly appreciated came flap holster from an old Sea Bee I ll try to post pics if needed never done before .
Last edited by custer1876; 04-08-2017 at 08:47 PM.
Reason: would like to post on first page
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04-08-2017, 09:17 PM
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V268514 indicates probable shipment at around March 1943. Now a question for you. You say the topstrap stamping is "U. S. PROPERTY". But on my list I have slightly lower and higher SNs where the stamping is "UNITED STATES PROPERTY", which is the earlier form of this property stamp. Can you verify which it is? I'd say you have a .38 Special Victory which was shipped to the U. S. Navy. Prior to about V265xxx, Navy revolvers had a "U. S. NAVY" topstrap property stamping. Yours may have been made pretty much at the exact SN at which the property stamp format changed. And that is good information.
Last edited by DWalt; 04-08-2017 at 09:21 PM.
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04-09-2017, 01:13 AM
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V 268514 would have been relatively shortly before the P proof stamp began being applied to side frame, cylinder, and underbarrel, so it's not to be expected there. Usually, it was placed on the butt opposite the serial before that time, but apparently not always.
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04-09-2017, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by custer1876
I have victory to submit 4inch bbl 38 special.u s property on topstrap g h d and flaming bomb also. Flaming bomb on butt with serial # v268514 , same # on bbl, cyl, and grips also. cannot find proof mark ( p ) anywhere also no s on right frame or ( p ). I believe finish is park . any information greatly appreciated came flap holster from an old Sea Bee I ll try to post pics if needed never done before .
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The topstrap is U S Property G H D
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04-09-2017, 10:20 AM
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Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass, General!
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04-09-2017, 11:16 AM
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Are there 4" Victory Models with UNITED STATES PROPERTY on the top strap? The only ones I've seen with that marking are BSRs or 2" guns that shipped to Ft. Mason.
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04-09-2017, 02:35 PM
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Prior to this one, the highest Victory SN on my list with the early UNITED STATES PROPERTY stamp is V2787xx. So I have to assume that there was a considerable overlap in the stampings if V268514 has the U. S. PROPERTY stamping. Can anyone else get closer to the property stamp changeover SN?
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04-09-2017, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwill1911
Are there 4" Victory Models with UNITED STATES PROPERTY on the top strap?
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Kevin:
Nope. The UNITED STATES PROPERTY left top strap marking was not used on 4 inch .38 Special Victory Model revolvers. The only .38 Special Victory Model revolvers that had the UNITED STATES PROPERTY left top strap marking were the 2 inch guns that shipped to Fort Mason, CA in December 1942.
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04-09-2017, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt
Prior to this one, the highest Victory SN on my list with the early UNITED STATES PROPERTY stamp is V2787xx. So I have to assume that there was a considerable overlap in the stampings if V268514 has the U. S. PROPERTY stamping. Can anyone else get closer to the property stamp changeover SN?
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The Victory Model Database shows guns in the V286000 range with the UNITED STATES PROPERTY left top strap marking. These are all 5 inch .38 S&W revolvers.
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04-09-2017, 07:11 PM
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Thanks, Charlie. That was my understanding.
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04-09-2017, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ordnanceguy
The Victory Model Database shows guns in the V286000 range with the UNITED STATES PROPERTY left top strap marking. These are all 5 inch .38 S&W revolvers.
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And I also show V2866xx and V2876xx with the U. S. PROPERTY topstrap stamping. So there must evidently be a considerable overlap period during which both were used, running from at least V268xxx to V287xxx.
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04-09-2017, 10:35 PM
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My understanding is that there may be overlap in the numbers, but I think most collectors would consider the BSR a different model than the American Victory Model. Maybe that's just me.
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04-25-2017, 08:33 PM
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new member seeking info on pre victory model 38
serial #984717 on butt strap. All serial numbers match including grips. any info greatly appreciated. 4" barrel smooth walnut grips lanyard loop sand blast finish.
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04-25-2017, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hudson 1
serial #984717 on butt strap. All serial numbers match including grips. any info greatly appreciated. 4" barrel smooth walnut grips lanyard loop sand blast finish.
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Based on your description of the other one in the separate thread, you know what is important.
So with a 4" barrel and no topstrap property marking, it is most likely a gun shipped late spring 1942 either directly to the DSC or to a civilian end user on a DSC contract, like a defense contractor or police agency. Some early Navy guns were un-stamped, so that's a (less likely) possibility; same with the Maritime Commission.
I'd letter this one.
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04-26-2017, 07:48 AM
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Thanks for info. I have 4 of these pistols. will learn how to better use the site and post pictures.
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04-26-2017, 10:04 AM
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This is gun 3. 4" barrel,smooth walnut grips,lanyard ring,grips numbered to gun,sandblast finish. All serial numbers match. Bottom strap has ord bomb v219454 no top strap marks gun is near mint.
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04-26-2017, 10:10 AM
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Welcome to the Forum, hudson 1.
Please post pictures.
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04-26-2017, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hudson 1
This is gun 3. 4" barrel,smooth walnut grips,lanyard ring,grips numbered to gun,sandblast finish. All serial numbers match. Bottom strap has ord bomb v219454 no top strap marks gun is near mint.
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Same as my post #1721, except early 1943 and I'd limit the possibilities to either a DSC contract gun shipped directly to an end user or statistically less likely a Maritime Commission gun. The latter do show up in obviously unissued condition from this time period more frequently than one would expect, for reasons unexplained.
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04-26-2017, 10:49 AM
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Thanks for all info. Will try to figure out how to post pictures.
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04-28-2017, 02:44 PM
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Can anyone help me w/pictures of correct British service revolvers i,e, grips, sights,markings. Thanks in advanvce. hudson1
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04-28-2017, 04:56 PM
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can anyone help me with a little info on a victory ss# v 489236 5 in bbl? mfg date what country, agency, which service org or anything else. thank you
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04-28-2017, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hilltop87
can anyone help me with a little info on a victory ss# v 489236 5 in bbl? mfg date what country, agency, which service org or anything else. thank you
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All we can tell you from the serial number is that it likely shipped in late 1943 or early 1944. The 5" barrel means that it is most likely chambered in .38 S&W (although it may have been converted to .38 Special since the war), and is a former British Service model, sent to Britain or another Commonwealth nation like Canada or Australia under Lend-lease; any markings still present on the gun may or may not provide clues to that.
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05-02-2017, 03:14 PM
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This is my Victory model. It is serial no. V773. It has an asterisk where you normally see British proof marks. I have been told that this means it went through an arsenal rework in India. Any information on this early Victory model would be appreciated. I believe it to be first or second day of production.
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05-02-2017, 03:33 PM
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this is my first time is this where i ask a question
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05-02-2017, 03:46 PM
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Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass! Not here, Charlie. Go to the top of the forum where you see all the threads listed and click on NEW THREAD which is an orange button at the upper left of the threads box. Create your question and give us as much information as possible. If your question is regarding identification of a gun you have, read the sticky post on ID'ing your gun first.
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05-02-2017, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRI
This is my Victory model. It is serial no. V773. It has an asterisk where you normally see British proof marks. I have been told that this means it went through an arsenal rework in India. Any information on this early Victory model would be appreciated. I believe it to be first or second day of production.
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The somewhat greyish-shiny finish does mesh with other Indian-refinished BSR's I've seen. But all those had an RFI stamp for Rifle Factory Ishapore somewhere on the barrel. My experience with those is limited, though.
"First or second day of production" is really meaningless on these since the BSR's had been produced in the identical Victory configuration (utility finish, smooth stocks, lanyard swivel) since at least the low 900-thousands and simply continued with V-prefix numbers when they hit 999,999. All that changed was the numbering.
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05-02-2017, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Absalom
The somewhat greyish-shiny finish does mesh with other Indian-refinished BSR's I've seen. But all those had an RFI stamp for Rifle Factory Ishapore somewhere on the barrel. My experience with those is limited, though.
"First or second day of production" is really meaningless on these since the BSR's had been produced in the identical Victory configuration (utility finish, smooth stocks, lanyard swivel) since at least the low 900-thousands and simply continued with V-prefix numbers when they hit 999,999. All that changed was the numbering.
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I checked again, no RFI, but it does have an inspector's mark on the butt, "WB." Also on the butt is an ordinance bomb stamp and a small "P."
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05-02-2017, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRI
I checked again, no RFI, but it does have an inspector's mark on the butt, "WB." Also on the butt is an ordinance bomb stamp and a small "P."
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Those are all from the original factory production before it shipped initially. There were contract inspectors at the factory who inspected the guns for the Ordnance District. WB are the initials of the inspector-in-charge at the time, Waldemar Broberg; the P is a standard military proof, and the flaming bomb an acceptance mark.
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05-02-2017, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRI
I checked again, no RFI, but it does have an inspector's mark on the butt, "WB." Also on the butt is an ordinance bomb stamp and a small "P."
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GRI:
I don't know how you acquired V773, but it somehow rung a bell, so I did some checking of old threads and discovered that this gun came up for discussion on the Colt forum a few years ago. I can't find the original Colt forum thread, but I asked one of our experts and keepers of the Victory database here, Charlie Flick, for input, and he was certain that this gun, just based on the asterisk stamps, is an Ishapore-reworked gun. Back then, the owner mentioned a Century Arms import mark. Does it still have that?
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05-02-2017, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Absalom
GRI:
I don't know how you acquired V773, but it somehow rung a bell, so I did some checking of old threads and discovered that this gun came up for discussion on the Colt forum a few years ago. I can't find the original Colt forum thread, but I asked one of our Erexperts and keepers of the Victory database here, Charlie Flick, for input, and he was certain that this gun, just based on the asterisk stamps, is an Ishapore-reworked gun. Back then, the owner mentioned a Century Arms import mark. Does it still have that?
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You're right, that was me. It has the Century Arms import mark. I wanted to make sure it was in this thread and I still had some questions. I had thought the gun may have been used for tests because guns in that range show up as such in the Springfield Research Service book. In my Colt post I got beat up pretty bad and just stuck the gun away. I never mentioned the Springfield Research service in the original post. Of significant interest, while all the rest is matching, the crane was renumbered to the correct assembly number. I don't think the Indians with an arsenal re-work would have bothered renumbering the crane. This may have been done during the original production. I thought this could be another indication of a test gun. I just want to add that I never found a reference to the asterisk in any of my books and have not seen another gun with those marks. I would have to assume this was a standard way Ishapore marked their re-works, but of course, I could have missed seeing the asterisk proof marks on another gun or in a reference.
Last edited by GRI; 05-03-2017 at 11:19 AM.
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05-03-2017, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Absalom
The somewhat greyish-shiny finish does mesh with other Indian-refinished BSR's I've seen. But all those had an RFI stamp for Rifle Factory Ishapore somewhere on the barrel. My experience with those is limited, though.
"First or second day of production" is really meaningless on these since th.e BSR's had been produced in the identical Victory configuration (utility finish, smooth stocks, lanyard swivel) since at least the low 900-thousands and simply continued with V-prefix numbers when they hit 999,999. All that changed was the numbering.
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While I understand that the V model was physically the same as its predecessor, there is a significance to the introduction of the V model. This is witnessed by the fact that V1-V5 were made into presentation pieces, with President Harry Truman ending up with serial V1. The presentation pieces were first day guns.
Last edited by GRI; 05-03-2017 at 02:38 PM.
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05-03-2017, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRI
While I understand that the V model was physically the same as its predecessor, there is a significance to the introduction of the V model. This is witnessed by the fact that V1-V5 were made into presentation pieces, with President Harry Truman ending up with serial V1. The presentation pieces were first day guns.
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You're right, but those were all US Victory models in .38 Special. It would be interesting to know what the lowest known BSR V-prefix serial is.
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05-03-2017, 03:41 PM
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As posted here previously, V 16 is a BSR. Not to say there are no earlier ones. Allegedly, a very high percentage of the early V-series revolvers were BSRs, but certainly not all.
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05-03-2017, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Absalom
You're right, but those were all US Victory models in .38 Special. It would be interesting to know what the lowest known BSR V-prefix serial is.
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I was thinking the same thing...what was the first British V model serial number and what is the lowest number observed?
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05-03-2017, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt
As posted here previously, V 16 is a BSR. Not to say there are no earlier ones. Allegedly, a very high percentage of the early V-series revolvers were BSRs, but certainly not all.
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As far as serial numbers go, I guess the real question is how did they decide which was a US gun and which was a British gun? I can't imagine it was random since they were different configurations. My experience with Colts is that guns were done in batches. In addition, there must have been assigned serial numbers.
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05-03-2017, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRI
As far as serial numbers go, I guess the real question is how did they decide which was a US gun and which was a British gun? I can't imagine it was random since they were different configurations. My experience with Colts is that guns were done in batches. In addition, there must have been assigned serial numbers.
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It likely just involved setting quantified goals by the manager in charge. Keep in mind that almost until the final assembly, they were building only one type of gun. The barrel was the only different part; even the cylinder was identical until the chambers were bored. So large parts of the production chugged along without having to make any choices or changes between the two versions (or three if you consider the .38 Spl. 2" variant).
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05-04-2017, 11:49 PM
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I received a model Victory with the sn. V 311661 all matching numbers (i haven't pulled the grips yet but I'm 99% sure they match also.. What I think I knows is its 1943 with a 4inch barrel. No other "special" markings. Any infomation you can give me about the gun would be great.
Although my grandfather served in wwIl, this gun belonged to my great grandfather. In the late 50s early 60s he killed himself with it and its been sitting in closests since and just recently it was given to me. I mailed off for a letter to S&W when should I expect a return letter?.... I'm not sure how to upload a picture on hear.
Last edited by chriscokid; 05-05-2017 at 12:26 PM.
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05-05-2017, 01:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscokid
I received a model Victory with the sn. V 311661 all matching numbers (i haven't pulled the grips yet but I'm 99% sure they match also.. What I think I knows is its 1943 with a 4inch barrel. No other "special" markings. Any infomation you can give me about the gun would be great.
Although my grandfather served in wwIl, this gun belonged to my great grandfather. In the late 50s early 60s he killed himself with it and its been sitting in closests since and just recently it was given to me. I mailed off for a letter to S&W when should I expect a return letter?.... I'm not sure how to upload a picture on hear.
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Sorry about the unfortunate circumstances attached to the gun.
1943 is correct for that serial, and if is a 4" .38 Special with no other markings, it would most likely be a gun shipped to a stateside police agency or defense contractor through the Defense Supplies Corporation. Your letter should take two to three weeks from the date of mailing the form.
For pictures, it's easiest to "Go advanced" below the quick reply box, go to "Manage attachments", and follow the prompts to upload photos from your computer or smartphone.
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05-05-2017, 05:28 AM
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Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass!
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Guy
SWHF #474 SWCA LM#2629
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05-05-2017, 12:29 PM
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Thanks.. I uploaded some pictures.. what is the gun worth?
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05-05-2017, 01:31 PM
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SWCA Member Absent Comrade
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscokid
Thanks.. I uploaded some pictures.. what is the gun worth?
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It does have the topstrap property mark, so disregard what I said; it will likely letter as a standard military-shipped Victory, statistically most likely to have gone to a Navy location.
As for value, artificial light makes condition a bit hard to judge, however it shows use wear, but appears all original, so if all serial numbers match, including the stocks, you are probably looking at a 400-500 dollar gun, maybe a bit more if it looks better in natural light.
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05-05-2017, 02:45 PM
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Here's one...
5'' 38 SW CTG, left topstrap, US PROPERTY GHD. there is a stamp before the 'U' that that looks like a possible 6 or 8, the upper portion of the stamp is blurry.
'C' stamp on lower left grip frame. Numbers match everywhere.
Smooth walnut stocks. S/N V4262XX
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05-05-2017, 04:38 PM
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SWCA Member Absent Comrade
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clauded56
......
5'' 38 SW CTG, left topstrap, US PROPERTY GHD. there is a stamp before the 'U' that that looks like a possible 6 or 8, the upper portion of the stamp is blurry.
'C' stamp on lower left grip frame. Numbers match everywhere.
Smooth walnut stocks. S/N V4262XX
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That would be a British Service model, Lend-lease, from the late months of 1943.
If by "lower left grip frame" you mean the shoulder of the grip and there is an arrow inside the C, it would be a Canadian military property stamp. (See attached, somewhat mis-stamped example)
The stamp before the U.S. on the topstrap is a "flaming bomb" ordnance mark, standard in that location. See the third photo attached to post #1744 sbove.
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05-05-2017, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Absalom
It does have the topstrap property mark, so disregard what I said; it will likely letter as a standard military-shipped Victory, statistically most likely to have gone to a Navy location.
As for value, artificial light makes condition a bit hard to judge, however it shows use wear, but appears all original, so if all serial numbers match, including the stocks, you are probably looking at a 400-500 dollar gun, maybe a bit more if it looks better in natural light.
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Wow thanks... Now I can't wait to get the letter. My hope is that the gun left S&W and went straight to Louisiana. If that he the case the gun has never left this state.
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05-05-2017, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Absalom
That would be a British Service model, Lend-lease, from the late months of 1943.
If by "lower left grip frame" you mean the shoulder of the grip and there is an arrow inside the C, it would be a Canadian military property stamp. (See attached, somewhat mis-stamped example)
The stamp before the U.S. on the topstrap is a "flaming bomb" ordnance mark, standard in that location. See the third photo attached to post #1744 sbove.
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Thanks much. The 'C' is on the side of the frame under the left grip. No arrow. thanks again.
really enjoy this thread. Worth publishing!!
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05-07-2017, 11:46 AM
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V10455, no property marks, .38 Special.
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380, cartridge, certificate, commercial, gunsmith, k frame, leather, military, model 10, parkerized, postwar, scope, sideplate, sig arms, smith and wesson, smith-wessonforum.com, springfield, stag, swca, trademark, united states property, victory, walnut, wondersight, wwii |
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