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07-28-2020, 07:24 PM
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VICTORY
Have one coming end of the week Ser# seems to be V316134 any idea?? THANKS
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07-29-2020, 10:16 AM
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ALCOA Victory
If I did this right, here are the Photos of my ALCOA DSC Pre-Victory.
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Retired Dep Sheriff & Armorer
Last edited by sandspur6; 07-30-2020 at 02:41 PM.
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07-29-2020, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandspur6
If I did this right, here are the Photos of my ALCOA DSC Victory.
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Looks like the backstrap may have had a previous number that was stamped over.
Very nice condition example.
Thanks for getting the pics added.
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07-29-2020, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J. R. WEEMS
Have one coming end of the week Ser# seems to be V316134 any idea?? THANKS
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Mid-1943 (May/June). Please add the caliber and, once you have the gun, any markings.
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07-29-2020, 11:00 AM
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VICTORY
Quote:
Originally Posted by Absalom
Mid-1943 (May/June). Please add the caliber and, once you have the gun, any markings.
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Caliber is .38S&W-- will have to wait on arrival for any markings and a photo. THANKS! About as close as I came come to a birth year gun--- Oct 1944
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08-12-2020, 10:03 PM
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BIRTH YEAR
Quote:
Originally Posted by everReady Rob
Thanks Charlie for your prompt reply. This is great news for me as it fits perfect with my search for a birth year Victory. I will pursue the factory letter and forward that information.
There are no markings on left top strap.
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Yeah, mine too
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08-14-2020, 12:19 PM
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2 more for the database
Recently acquired 2 more, though the 38/200 I know is not an actual "victory". Hopefully y'all can shed some light on that one. Never seen that rollmark on the hammer. Assuming its an after market part?
Have 2 butt swivels on the way and looking to swap the checkered medallion grips for a set of victory grips on the 38/200.
No acceptance stamps or property marks on either one. Perhaps the V model is a DSC gun?
SN's 746990 P and V 508708
Thanks!
Last edited by tphilly88; 08-14-2020 at 12:24 PM.
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08-14-2020, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tphilly88
Recently acquired 2 more, though the 38/200 I know is not an actual "victory". Hopefully y'all can shed some light on that one. Never seen that rollmark on the hammer. Assuming its an after market part?
Have 2 butt swivels on the way and looking to swap the checkered medallion grips for a set of victory grips on the 38/200.
No acceptance stamps or property marks on either one. Perhaps the V model is a DSC gun?
SN's 746990 P and V 508708
Thanks!
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The patent marked hammer was used on pre-war guns, I have no good idea when it was stopped, I think late 1930s. It referred to the finish, not the hammer itself. My guess is that the hammer is a replacement. 746990 would date it as shipping in probably mid-1941, maybe a little earlier. V508708, probably around early 1944. In mid 1941, there would have been no factory-applied property stamp. That came after the Lend-Lease act in late 1941. With no property stamp on V508708, chances are high that it was a DSC gun.
Last edited by DWalt; 08-14-2020 at 01:50 PM.
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08-14-2020, 01:46 PM
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SWCA Member Absent Comrade
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On 756990, the patent on the hammer is original. The stocks are indeed not correct, but neither will be smooth Victory stocks. The gun is from early 1941 when the pre-war small checkered-wood stocks with silver medallions were still used. No property stamps were applied at the time. The P is the standard military proof; this was a British Service model purchased by the British (or allied country). The fact that the hammer and trigger are the same finish as the gun and that finish looks different from the original Carbonia blue indicates a refinish.
The US Victory is from early 1944, looks all original and without property mark would indeed most likely be a DSC contract gun.
Last edited by Absalom; 08-14-2020 at 01:49 PM.
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08-14-2020, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Absalom
On 756990, the pstent on the hammer is original. The stocks are indeed not correct, but neither will be smooth Victory stocks. The gun is from early 1941 when the pre-war small checkered-wood stocks with silver medallions were still used. No property stamps were applied at the time. The P is the standard military proof; this was a British Service model purchased by the British (or allied country). The fact that the hammer and trigger are the same finish as the gun and that finish looks different from the original Carbonia blue indicates a refinish.
The US Victory is from early 1944, looks all original and without property mark would indeed most likely be a DSC contract gun.
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Thank you both. I was aware the British gun was refinished, but at least its a tasteful refinish. Any idea on the "W" on the butt of the victory?
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08-14-2020, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tphilly88
Thank you both. I was aware the British gun was refinished, but at least its a tasteful refinish. Any idea on the "W" on the butt of the victory?
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That has been subject to discussion and investigation for some time. At one time Westinghouse was a suspect, but I think that has been discarded. I’m not aware that a definite answer has been found.
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08-21-2020, 02:45 PM
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New Victory Aquisition
Just picked up this British Service Revolver. Beautiful condition, great action. Check the pics. There is a second Smith & Wesson stamp on the barrel, albeit upside down??? The barrel shows the correct serial number. Also would like to know the manufacture/shipping date for SN V7435XX.
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08-21-2020, 03:00 PM
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SN V7435xx would be late in the war. V7454xx shipped in 1/45.
Upside-down stamp must be a manufacturing error that got by the inspector. I've seen nothing like it before.
Last edited by DWalt; 08-21-2020 at 03:03 PM.
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08-21-2020, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walkcubs
...There is a second Smith & Wesson stamp on the barrel, albeit upside down??? The barrel shows the correct serial number. .....
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That is trippy.
Upon close inspection, the Smith & Wesson stamp is super-imposed over the regular caliber stamp in that location.
An interesting goof. By that late in the war, inspectors may not have cared about cosmetics.
Another side note: Unlike the majority of these, your gun was commercially proofed post-war at the London, not Birmingham proofhouse.
Last edited by Absalom; 08-21-2020 at 04:18 PM.
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08-21-2020, 06:58 PM
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Wow just when you think you've seen most everything Victory related here comes a "SMITH&WESSON" doublestamp, upside down and on the wrong side of the barrel as well!
I bet not very many of them ever left the factory like that.
Thanks for sharing pics of it.
Dale
Last edited by tenntex32; 08-21-2020 at 07:00 PM.
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08-21-2020, 08:21 PM
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New Aquisition
I would like to thank you for your feedback.
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08-27-2020, 12:03 PM
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U.S. Navy 200929 Victory Model Letter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Absalom
Grendelbean:
I would reiterate my previous suggestion. Let’s stop the guessing game. Since you are a SWCA member, post that photo of the 1161 in the “ask Roy” sub-forum and see whether he thinks this is a rework date.
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Received the letter on 200929 from Roy yesterday. Images of the letter, the shipping document, and the packing list/document are shown.
It was most interesting to see the factory repair order and the copy of the original invoice.
The revolver was originally shipped on December 20, 1942 to the U.S. Navy at Oakland, California and was privately returned to the factory in November 1961 from the City of Moses Lake (Washington) Police Department.
The factory apparently repaired/replaced the cylinder stop, installed magna stocks and applied a sandblast bluing all for $12.03.
The shipping invoice noted the revolver was packed in one of the 30 cases of fifty guns each sent to the Officer in Charge Naval Supply Depot Oakland, California on January 30, 1943.
So - as recognized by many from the frame stampings the gun had been reworked in November 1961.
Thanks again for all the prior information. All is confirmed by the Letter of Authentication.
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08-27-2020, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grendelbean
The revolver was originally shipped on December 20, 1942 to the U.S. Navy at Oakland, California and was privately returned to the factory in November 1961 from the City of Moses Lake (Washington) Police Department.
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One of the aviation companies I used to contract for would do a lot of remote Boeing related work here in Texas. When they would talk about going up to the Boeing facility in Washington State they would refer to it as Moses Lake.
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08-27-2020, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenntex32
One of the aviation companies I used to contract for would do a lot of remote Boeing related work here in Texas. When they would talk about going up to the Boeing facility in Washington State they would refer to it as Moses Lake.
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Boeing isn’t manufacturing at Moses Lake. But the airport the company is using as a testing facility there was a US air base until the 1960s, so the Moses Lake police may well have gotten the Victory via Air Force surplus. The AF got a lot of Victorys from the Navy after WW II, which were used before the Model 15.
PS: On a side note, Boeing’s Moses Lake facility has gained some fame in the PNW lately as the “mini-graveyard” where they have mothballed hundreds of 737MAX’s waiting for some solution to that mess.
Last edited by Absalom; 08-27-2020 at 02:44 PM.
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08-27-2020, 04:06 PM
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We were fabricating items for a vip 787 BBJ Dreamliner. Nothing but the best of everything with regards to design, materials, and electronics. It was crazy how much money the end customer was spending.
At that time the aircraft was being housed at a facility at Moses Lake that the company I worked for had. Our company, Boeing, and the end customer were all 3 working at Moses Lake with regards to design, engineering, and installation. We were simply shipping the items we manufactured here in Texas to Moses Lake.
Last edited by tenntex32; 08-27-2020 at 04:14 PM.
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08-29-2020, 09:05 AM
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I just picked up this South African issued Victory with the Union Defense Force stamp and number.
With serial number V83771 would shipment have been late 1942?
There are no British proof marks on the gun.
Last edited by RacingSnake; 08-29-2020 at 09:08 AM.
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08-29-2020, 09:17 AM
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V83771 would probably have shipped 8/42-9/42. There wouldn't be any British proof marks on it. Those were applied only when they were sold as surplus into the civilian market in the post-war period. Don't know what the South Africans did.
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08-29-2020, 09:30 AM
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Thanks Dwalt.
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08-29-2020, 03:18 PM
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Ref: V200929 - As noted on the repair order, the factory installed magna stocks in 1961 with other repairs. I can't decide to leave the smooth Victory Model Style stocks that came with the gun when I got it, or find and install a set of magnas - as was last done in the last contact with the factory. Any opinions or advice? Many thanks.
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09-04-2020, 03:13 PM
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Verify Manufacture
Just bought a pristine condition Victory. I just wanted to verify date of shipping. I think sometime in 1943. SN is V4188XX.
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09-19-2020, 05:15 PM
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Pre-Victory for the data base
Hi everyone,
Finally got around to picking up a .38 S&W Victory. Its serial number is 783734 (all matching) and appears to have the correct bluing for a pre-victory in its range. It lacks a "UNITED STATES PROPERTY" marking. Nor does it have any commonwealth markings. Markings inside the grip are done in pencil and hardly legible. The butt of the pistol has a P and some other marking I can't make out. Can't confirm if the grips are matching (they fit as though they might) but they appear to have a 46 painted on them.
Any further information would be greatly appreciated!
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09-19-2020, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walkcubs
Just bought a pristine condition Victory. I just wanted to verify date of shipping. I think sometime in 1943. SN is V4188XX.
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Yes, I think Sept./Oct. would be the ballpark.
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09-19-2020, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaversyrup
..... Its serial number is 783734 (all matching) and appears to have the correct bluing for a pre-victory in its range. It lacks a "UNITED STATES PROPERTY" marking. Nor does it have any commonwealth markings. Markings inside the grip are done in pencil and hardly legible. The butt of the pistol has a P and some other marking I can't make out. Can't confirm if the grips are matching (they fit as though they might) but they appear to have a 46 painted on them.
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The gun does indeed look all original.
It’s too early for a Lend-Lease property marking. It would have been part of a mid-1941 direct purchase contract.
I think that marking next to the P proof is a Canadian stamp, which would also explain the absence of British post-war proofs. The 46 is likely a local inventory number of some sort. But penciling of grip serials ended a decade earlier and was replaced by stamping, so those may not be the originals, although period-correct.
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11-01-2020, 08:09 PM
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Victory Model Info
I have a Victory model, serial # 495388, in .38 spl, that belonged to my grandfather. It is marked Bavaria Municipal Police. He purchased it while stationed in Germany with the USAF from Wiesbaden Rod and Gun Club in 1957 for $19.50. I have the sales receipt and the "Fire Arms Retention Authorization" card authorizing him to bring the revolver back to the United States. I plan to get request a letter on it in the near future but would appreciate any manufacture/ship date info. Thanks in advance.
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11-01-2020, 08:39 PM
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Deactivated revolver in the UK
Hi there, new to this forum and hoping for some help. I have a deactivated .38 victory revolver an V986** which makes it some time in 42 judging by some of the posts here already. It has a 5" barrel and compared to some on here is positively covered in stamps. There is "WB" near the lanyard ring and what looks like a circle with a flame on top and a very small "P". "United states property" on the top "38 S.&W. CTG" on the right side of the barrel "Smith &wesson" on the left as well as a crossed sword emblem with D and A to the left and right and 00beneath. This same emblem appears on the drum as well. It has "Smith & wesson, Springfield,Mass.USA Patented Feb6.06 Sept14.09 Dec29.14" in 2 lines on the top of the barrel. It also has a trade mark symbol with "Reg.us.pat.off" underneath it and"MADE IN USA." on the right of the frame. Hopefully all of this is visible in the pictures and means something. Any info you can give me would be great.
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11-01-2020, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NA225
I have a Victory model, serial # 495388, in .38 spl, that belonged to my grandfather. It is marked Bavaria Municipal Police. He purchased it while stationed in Germany with the USAF from Wiesbaden Rod and Gun Club in 1957 for $19.50. I have the sales receipt and the "Fire Arms Retention Authorization" card authorizing him to bring the revolver back to the United States. I plan to get request a letter on it in the near future but would appreciate any manufacture/ship date info. Thanks in advance.
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Your SN is actually V495388. The closest SN on my list to it is V495759 which shipped on 1/18/44. Noting that S&W was producing around 1000 revolvers per day, it would not be surprising to find that yours had been shipped on the same day or at least within several days of it. I have understood that many of these occupation period German and Austrian civil police Victories were sold off to GIs through military Rod and Gun clubs in Germany when the German police were allowed to purchase other guns in the 1950s. Yours is the first indication I have seen showing the sales price. BTW, there was an article in the December 2014 American Rifleman about the postwar German police Victory revolvers. Just Google "Cold War K-Frames". Definitely you should safeguard that sales paperwork as it adds substantial value to the gun.
It is probably not worthwhile to spend $100 for a letter as it will not tell you much more about it other than providing the exact shipping date.
Last edited by DWalt; 11-01-2020 at 10:17 PM.
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11-02-2020, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NA225
It is marked Bavaria Municipal Police. He purchased it while stationed in Germany with the USAF from Wiesbaden Rod and Gun Club in 1957 ...
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The US occupation authorities handed several thousand US Victory models in .38 Special, including yours, over to the Bavarian government on Feb. 2, 1946. They all had previous careers elsewhere and were gathered after the war‘s end for this new mission, so your letter would likely show shipment to a Navy yard or similar destination.
Starting around 1952 the Manurhin-Walther PP became available and Bavarian police were one of the first customers, phasing out and selling the revolvers, for which the US had demanded payment in the meantime. The Rod and Gun Clubs on US bases where your grandfather acquired the gun were popular outlets.
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11-02-2020, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlmighty
Hi there, new to this forum and hoping for some help. I have a deactivated .38 victory revolver an V986** which makes it some time in 42 judging by some of the posts here already. ...... Hopefully all of this is visible in the pictures and means something. Any info you can give me would be great.
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I think the crossed sword mark with D and A is the de-activation proof, since I see no other non-factory proofs elsewhere.
With that serial, which does indeed place the gun in later 1942, the gun is a standard Lend-Lease British Service model. The ordnance butt stamps are regular pattern. WB is Waldemar Broberg, ordnance chief, P is a military proof. The flaming bomb is also an ordnance mark.
All the other stampings are regular factory trademarks and inscriptions.
Last edited by Absalom; 11-02-2020 at 12:35 AM.
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11-06-2020, 10:53 PM
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Hello! I'm looking to get some info regarding a Victory revolver that has been passed down from a family member who was in the U.S. clandestine services in the 1960s and 70s. Serial Number V616216. Here are some pictures of markings that may be helpful.
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11-06-2020, 11:26 PM
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11-10-2020, 12:05 AM
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Victory Model Info
Thanks for informative replies. As usual help is always available from the vast knowledge base found here.
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11-10-2020, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NA225
I have a Victory model, serial # 495388, in .38 spl, that belonged to my grandfather. It is marked Bavaria Municipal Police. He purchased it while stationed in Germany with the USAF from Wiesbaden Rod and Gun Club in 1957 for $19.50. I have the sales receipt and the "Fire Arms Retention Authorization" card authorizing him to bring the revolver back to the United States. I plan to get request a letter on it in the near future but would appreciate any manufacture/ship date info. Thanks in advance.
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Great heirloom from your Granddad!
I've attached the serial number specific part of Roy's letter for mine -- a wee bit earlier than yours, perhaps -- to give you an idea of what you'll get.
An Air Force civilian bought mine at the Schwäbisch Hall R&G Club in Bavaria in 1965 -- not far from where it had been in German police service. The back strap reads, "SK . fürth . Mun," which Absalom believes means the stadtkreis (city/county) of Fürth, and "municipal."
I have the R&G Club receipt and all the Army papers that allowed him to bring it to the states, too. I don't recall the price, but I don't think it was as low as yours.
In the area of the frame where yours says, "Bavaria Municipal Police," a German importer/exporter milled that off of mine and replaced it with his company logo: "HEGE SCHW HALL."
The left side proof marks include the standard German "nitro" proof mark, the two-digit year the revolver passed through the proof house, and the stag horn proof mark of the Ulm Proof House.
I think mine led a mighty boring life, no matter whose hands it passed through.
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Last edited by two-bit cowboy; 11-10-2020 at 01:06 AM.
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11-10-2020, 06:40 PM
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Just Picked Up This Victory........
I just picked up S&W Victory Model S/N: V167622 at the LGS. I posted this earlier: Bought today, Victory Model, What have I got?
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11-24-2020, 08:01 PM
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Victory serial number
I just bought a snubby 38 k frame with a serial number beginning with v. It has very few markings, but all assembly numbers match. There is no lanyard ring and it appears to be chromed or polished stainless. I havent seen any victory revolvers that weren't blued/parkerized or without a lanyard ring. Any info at all would be appreciated. Serial number is V89xxx.
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11-30-2020, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squarebody86
It has very few markings, but all assembly numbers match. There is no lanyard ring and it appears to be chromed or polished Serial number is V89xxx.
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You have a former Lend-Lease British Service Victory from mid-1942 which was modified after the war for commercisl sale, by shortening the barrel from 5“, refinishing in nickel, and adding aftermarket grip panels. Markings were likely removed during the refinish. The gun was likely converted to fit .38 Special, which you can easily try out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KY1911
Serial # 916322 matching on bottom of grip frame, cylinder and barrel. 38 S&W CTG; Made in USA; WB, P and "bomb" stamped on bottom of grip frame; "United States Property" stamped on top; ....
NZ 2921 stamped on top of backstrap below hammer. Appears to be original bluing ....
I don't think the lanyard ring is original.
Any thoughts on dates and/or markings is appreciated.
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You have a largely original Lend-Lease gun that went to New Zealand. The serial puts it in early 1942, maybe February, before the V prefix started. The lanyard ring is indeed the standard round British type; S&W rings were oval. The stampings on the butt are standard ordnance inspection marks, WB for Waldemar Broberg, the P is a military proof. You should also check whether it’s been converted, although yours is more likely to still be the original .38 S&W.
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11-30-2020, 07:41 PM
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KY1911:
You might want to take a look at the underside of the barrel for the marking N.A., Inc. That is the import marking of Navy Arms which was principally responsible for the import of the New Zealand guns. Because the marking is so lightly struck many observers fail to see it.
Regards,
Charlie
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Charlie Flick
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12-16-2020, 05:24 PM
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I have a Victory serial number V292888. It belonged to my Father-in -law, Henry Curtis (HC 177). Can someone give me any details on this gun, like date of manufacture and shipped to?
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12-16-2020, 07:43 PM
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Victory V292888.
I will send a request form to Roy Jinks next week so you can get a precise description of V292888. Roy and my Father-in-law, Henry Curtis (SWCA #177) were close friends. Until then, the gun is parkerized, 5" barrel, lanyard, smooth wood grips, US PROPERTY GHD, no "S' or "P" stamp. More coming later.
Last edited by ETMJR; 12-16-2020 at 07:48 PM.
Reason: Incomplete letter.
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12-16-2020, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ETMJR
...., the gun is parkerized, 5" barrel, lanyard, smooth wood grips, US PROPERTY GHD, no "S' or "P" stamp. More coming later.
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You didn't mention the caliber stamping, but with a 5" barrel, at this serial from mid-1943 it can only be a Lend-Lease British Service model in .38 S&W. If it's actually "parkerized", it's a refinish, but you're most likely talking about the original sandblast black magic.
No S to be expected unless parts failed final inspection, and during that time the P was no longer applied consistently to the butt, and was not yet used in its new three locations.
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12-16-2020, 09:08 PM
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Victory V292888.
V292888 is a .38 S&W.
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12-16-2020, 09:13 PM
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Victory V292888.
I'm not an expert on gun finishes, I thought parkeried. It is a dull gray finish to my ancient eyes.
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12-16-2020, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ETMJR
I have a Victory serial number V292888. It belonged to my Father-in -law, Henry Curtis (HC 177). Can someone give me any details on this gun, like date of manufacture and shipped to?
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ETMJR:
From your description and the Victory Model Database I can estimate for you that your revolver likely shipped from the factory in the April-May, 1943 time frame. Its probable shipping destination was the Hartford Ordnance Depot in Springfield, Mass.
You mentioned your plan to obtain a letter from the S&WHF. I hope that when you receive it that you will post the details back here.
HTH.
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Charlie Flick
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12-17-2020, 11:51 AM
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Victory V292888.
On second (and more careful) look, the finish is black and not parkerized. Thank you.
I will certainly post Roy's letter content here.
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12-20-2020, 04:31 PM
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Hello all,
I've been trying to find an approximate production date to V256741, 4", 38 S&W Special and decided it was clearly time to register for some assistance after a number of empty searches.
Thank you,
Dave
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380, cartridge, certificate, commercial, gunsmith, k frame, leather, military, model 10, parkerized, postwar, scope, sideplate, sig arms, smith and wesson, smith-wessonforum.com, springfield, stag, swca, trademark, united states property, victory, walnut, wondersight, wwii |
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