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  #1  
Old 12-27-2011, 04:30 PM
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Default Victory data base

Is the Victory data base still active? I have three I'd like to submit.
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Old 12-27-2011, 09:19 PM
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Yes, post the info here. Ed
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Old 12-27-2011, 10:19 PM
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Default Victory Model Inquiry

I have one-V723884, marked for .38 S&W, and info appreciated.
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Old 12-27-2011, 10:55 PM
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I have one-V723884, marked for .38 S&W, and info appreciated.
A very late gun, probably shipped in 1945. Any marking on the top strap? Probably worth investing in a factory letter on one like this. Sure would like to see a photo.
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Old 12-28-2011, 10:55 AM
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Yes, Virginia, the database is real and still actively seeking submissions! You may post your information here on the forum or e-mail me directly (LWCmdr45acpNOSPAM@yahoo.com, removing the "NOSPAM," of course). Please include the full serial number and a description of all markings. (Quality photos never hurt.)

Re SN V723884: It is, indeed, rather late production, but I'd estimate its shipping date closer to November/December, 1944.

Steve
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Old 12-28-2011, 02:50 PM
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I recently picked up an odd Victory I thought I'd have it added the the DB . I'm hoping for some info on it and the aftermarket sight. I'll try to post up pics later.

# V174369 Barrel, cylinder and frame all match. It's also marked P.D. Mansfield 8 With a westinghouse logo above it. There's an "S" on the frame and what looks to be the #8 stamped on the butt and under the grips. It's marked 38 special CTG. 4" barrel, unfortunately it has aftermarket grips and has been reblued sometime in it's life.

Lastly it has an adjustable sight attached to the side plate where the upper most screw near the hammer is located. I'll admit I've been out of the S&W scene for a bit. It's really not where my collection is going, but I couldn't pass it up.

It appears to be a F.D.L. "Wondersight"


thanks
bob
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:23 PM
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Default Victory Serial Number

Howdy All,
I am new to the sight I have a Victory in .38 S&W serial number V743875. Does anyone know when it was made. I also just picked another one up. It has a hole for the lanyard ring, but the serial number does not have a V. It is also in .38 S&W. The serial number is 946453.

Thanks,
Mark
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Old 12-28-2011, 11:29 PM
Waidmann Waidmann is offline
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Howdy Mark, I'm guessing the second gun is crowding April of 1942, when Lend-Lease took effect. My questions regarding 946453, which finish? Which grips? "United States Property" marked? I have an extreme curiousity concening the Pre-V's.

Thanks,
Bill
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Old 12-29-2011, 05:08 PM
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Mark, V 743875 would have shipped in late Dec. 1944, or early Jan. 1945. 946453 would be a "pre-victory" , probably shipped March-April 1942. Both guns would have been shipped to Great Britain or a Commonwealth country and imported to the US, as surplus, after WW2. Ed.
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Old 12-30-2011, 04:05 AM
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Default Victory models

I have two; Brit. Serv. Rev S#-V161221, and commercial post war .38 Special with S#-SV809978. Photos below.

The SV809978 was lettered and shipped in March 1946 to the NYPD (see letter below) and bears the officers shield # 12095 stamped on the back strap. I had this gun lettered out of curiosity. As a police officer, I carried the same model 10 for many years and thought I recognized the wear pattern and wanted to see if it had been shipped to a PD.

Other photos available.

British Service Revolver




1946 M&P w/V serial #

letter
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Old 12-31-2011, 09:07 PM
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Default NEW Victory 38 Spl

Hello guys, have acquired a new 38 Spl Victory model and would like all the information you can tell me about this gun. Not sure how the data base works, so let me know if more info needed.

(1) S/N V 699640 appears on bottom of handle and on cylinder and can be seen when cylinder swings opened. The cylinder also has 3 letters around S/N, P - V - and another letter or maybe symbol, can't tell what it is for sure. Will attempt better pictures when have more time.
(2) 4" barrel has SMITH & WESSON on one side and 38 S & W SPECIAL CTG on other side. What does CTG stand for.
(3) The lanyard ring is missing. Are original's available and where.
(4) Stocks appear to be walnut and in such good condition I wonder if they are original.
(5) 4 screws showing, don't know if a 5th is under stock as have not had stocks off yet. One screw has slight 'bugger' but not bad. Sideplate has trademark. Would call the finish black (maybe its called blue, my first vintage). Finish appears really good to me with only slight holster wear.
(6) Yoke has S 5 0 2 7 and I'm not sure if S or 5 is that.
(7) What is the procedure to get a factory letter. Do you have to belong to SWCA or Historical Society to do that.

Thanks for your time.
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Old 01-01-2012, 01:25 PM
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Hello Rob:

I can help with your questions, which are much easier to answer since you provided good pics and a complete serial number.

(1) S/N V 699640? Based on the info in the Victory Model Database, which my pal LWCmdr45 and I administer, I can estimate for you that your Victory was likely shipped in the October, 1944 time frame.

(2) What does CTG stand for? That is the abbreviation for "Cartridge".

(3) The lanyard ring is missing. Are original's available and where? Yes, lanyard rings are usually available on Gunbroker.com and Ebay.com. Don't forget that you will also need the small pin that will secure the lanyard ring in place.

(4) Stocks appear to be walnut and in such good condition I wonder if they are original? Yes, they are walnut. I suspect that they are also original to the gun based on how they appear to fit in your photo. To find out for sure, take the stocks off. There will be a single serial number, without any prefix, inside the right stock panel. If original to the gun that serial will match the gun's serial. Victory stocks were hand-fitted to each revolver which required that they be serialed.

(5) 4 screws showing, don't know if a 5th is under stock as have not had stocks off yet? Yes, you have a 5-screw gun. (All Victory Models were 5-screw guns.) The 5th screw is located on the forward side of the frame just above the trigger guard.

(6) Yoke has S 5 0 2 7 and I'm not sure if S or 5 is that? It is probably a 5. These numbers are of little consequence.

(7) What is the procedure to get a factory letter? Do you have to belong to SWCA or Historical Society to do that? All that is required is a written request with details on the gun and payment of the fee of $50. Follow this link for the thread by Handejector and click on the blue link that says "factory letter request form." Information about the SWCA Print that out, fill it out and send it in. If you do get a letter please post back here with the results so that we can add that information to the Database.

Am I correct in assuming that there are no markings on the left top strap of your Victory? It is a very nice example.

I hope this information is helpful to you.
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Old 01-01-2012, 02:09 PM
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Thanks Charlie for your prompt reply. This is great news for me as it fits perfect with my search for a birth year Victory. I will pursue the factory letter and forward that information.

There are no markings on left top strap.
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Old 01-01-2012, 04:34 PM
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Hello all, I just found this forum, and have done some quick research. I believe my question belongs here. I was given my Grandfathers .38, years ago and not being a gun person it's been in a drawer until this morning. the serial # on the butt and cylinder match and is V 742150. On the right side of the barrel is 38 S&W CTG. On the same side of the barrel near the cylinder there appears to be another stamp that I can't quite make out, what I can says NP 3.5 38 "767". Above the NP appears to be some sort of hallmark maybe an eagle with out stretched wings. If anyone has any info I'd greatly appreciate it.
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Old 01-01-2012, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by mojo-jojo View Post
Hello all, I just found this forum, and have done some quick research. I believe my question belongs here. I was given my Grandfathers .38, years ago and not being a gun person it's been in a drawer until this morning. the serial # on the butt and cylinder match and is V 742150. On the right side of the barrel is 38 S&W CTG. On the same side of the barrel near the cylinder there appears to be another stamp that I can't quite make out, what I can says NP 3.5 38 "767". Above the NP appears to be some sort of hallmark maybe an eagle with out stretched wings. If anyone has any info I'd greatly appreciate it.
Welcome to the forum. Your gun sounds like a Victory model that was shipped to the Allies during WW2. Our Allies, England, Canada, etc. all used guns in 38 SW caliber rather than 38 Special. The markings on the side of the barrel are most likely British proof marks that were applied when the gun was sold as surplus post-war. Is this a 5" barreled gun? Measure from the end of the barrel to the front of the cylinder. Many of these guns were converted to 38 Special and reimported to the US, if it is converted there may be problems shooting 38 Special ammo as the dimensions of the two calibers are different. Pictures of the gun and markings would be a considerable help with positive identification. You might want to start a new thread in this section of the forum describing your gun to elicit more responses and information. I hope this helps a bit.
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Old 01-01-2012, 06:40 PM
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London proofs indicating the .38 S&W cartridge. If it will chamber .38 Specials (many do) the chambers were further reamed afterword. The problem is the British round was in the .361 diameter range not the .357 of the special.

It is best to start a new thread specific to your gun with pics if possible.

Welcome and Happy New Year.
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Old 01-01-2012, 07:01 PM
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Thanks for the info so far guys, working on getting pictures. It will not chamber the 38 special rounds, they only go about half the way in. Top strap left side, I can very faintly read US PROPERTY_ _D, can't make out the 2 spaces, second might be an H
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Old 01-01-2012, 07:43 PM
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The mark you refer to is GHD the initials of Guy H. Drewry, the Army inspector at the Springfield Armory.
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Old 01-01-2012, 08:13 PM
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Thanks, I started a dedicated thread for this with pics,
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Old 01-02-2012, 11:15 AM
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Default One More To Add

Here is another Victory for your data base. It shows honest wear, but everything matches except the grips. SN is: V159113.
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Old 01-02-2012, 12:21 PM
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Default Pre Victory

Here is a Pre Victory model in .38 S&W, sn 946227.It has commonwealth proofs, I believe, Canadian. The broad arrow inside the C is poorly stamped, though. It sports a 5 inch tube. It too shows honest wear, but it is all matching. Do you know what the WB on the heel stands for?
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Old 01-02-2012, 01:39 PM
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picked this pre victory up on one of the local gunboards. serial 7511**.
crossed flags on frame in front of cylinder on left side. there is only an "h" in the flags unlike most i have looked at that have and H,4,B. very small,lightly stamped marks on side of frame towards the rear and above grips,large arrow,what looks like a crown,z4 ans what appears to be an "m",although i know its something else.
does not have all the heavy british proof stamps. will be putting a proper set of stocks on soon.
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Old 01-02-2012, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0le View Post
Do you know what the WB on the heel stands for?
Ole:

Thanks for the information you supplied for the Victory Database. Every bit helps to improve the scope and accuracy of the Database.

The WB marking on the bottom of the grip frame indicates that your revolver was "accepted" by the Ordnance Department. The WB letters are the initials of Col. Waldemar Broberg, who served as the Inspector of Ordnance for the District in which the S&W factory was located.

On your 4 inch .38 Special Victory can you please tell me if there are any markings on the left top strap? My crummy monitor here does not give me the necessary clarity to see if there are any markings there. On your 5 inch gun are there any markings on the top strap? Where is the Canadian Broad Arrow C property marking located on the gun?
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Old 01-02-2012, 02:55 PM
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Charlie,
No US Property, or other markings on the left top strap of either revolver. The 'broad arrow inside the C' is on the bottom of the grip frame of the pre Victory, adjacent to the WB mark. It is a poor stamping, only about half there, and difficult to make out. If it were a complete, legible mark, it would have almost overstamped the ordnance flaming bomb.

Last edited by 0le; 01-02-2012 at 03:26 PM.
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Old 01-02-2012, 08:48 PM
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I just closed a deal on an early Victory Model, serial number V 2983. I will post pics when I get it in a week or so.
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Old 01-08-2012, 06:37 PM
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Here are mine that you can have for the data base,

Pre-Victory model.....

Victory, Pre-Victory, and model of 1917 letters arrived.....

Australian Victory Model.....

Pre-Victory model .38 S&W 6".....South African contract I believe

U.S. Navy & Civil Defense marked Victory model...
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Old 01-08-2012, 06:43 PM
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Here are mine that you can have for the data base.
Thank you, Lobo. Your data will make a valuable contribution to the Victory Model Database.
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Old 01-18-2012, 04:11 PM
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Default Database Victory

Hello,
How can I have information on N V 605XX.
I can load a 38 special case.
I think a 158 gr SWC can be a good starting bullet?
Cordialement
Bec

Last edited by bec; 02-19-2012 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 01-18-2012, 07:35 PM
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Had not seen this thread before today.

I recently obtained V 43268.

There are very few markings on the gun other than those on the barrel.

On the grip frame there is a V on the left side and a 5 on the right side.

Unfortunately it came with stag grips that don't look too bad but are obviously not original.

Might this be from 1943? {my birth year }

Thank you for your efforts in maintaining this information.

Ned
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Old 01-19-2012, 10:13 AM
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dlbleak, sounds like your K-200 got the full treatment at Royal Enfield.

Rightside pics?
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Old 01-19-2012, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
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I recently obtained V 43268.

There are very few markings on the gun other than those on the barrel.

Might this be from 1943?

Ned
That's a pretty early example, most likely shipped in 1942. If it is not "U.S. NAVY" marked, it would be very much worth obtaining a factory letter for it. Some of these went to quite interesting destinations.
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Old 01-19-2012, 04:47 PM
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Goony:

Thank you for your reply.

There are no markings so I think I will take your advice and letter the gun.

Ned
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Old 01-19-2012, 10:01 PM
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Any insight on mine: v464083? I inherited it from my father-in-law, who inherited it from his father-in-law, who was a merchant marine in the war for Gulf oil. I have the original leather holster to go with it, the holster and gun were used as a woods gun for about 50 years, but considering its history is in good shape with 90% bluing and little pitting, but some Holster wear.

One more thing, is it generally considered safe to use +p ammo?

Last edited by dannybot; 01-19-2012 at 10:07 PM.
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Old 01-19-2012, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
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One more thing, is it generally considered safe to use +p ammo?
NO! According to S&W if the firearm was manufactured before 1977 +P ammo was not recommended.
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Old 01-19-2012, 10:14 PM
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Another serial number for you - SV786640. Probably already in the data base, I gave Charlie Flick the number on another forum a year or so ago. I was issued one identical to this in the mid 80s at Ft. Campbell, wish I had written the serial number down.






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Old 01-20-2012, 03:16 PM
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One of my Victories for the data base.

SN is V321740 (V is to the left of the lanyard ring, number to the right). Numbers match on the butt, cylinder and barrel.

It came home with an Army officer from the CBI theatre following WWII. It was obtained in a "trade" with an RAF pilot. Been in the sock drawer since 1946.

Has the usual "US Propertry GHD" on the top strap. No proof markings found.

Any idea of DOB and where it was originally shipped?

Thanks.
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Old 01-20-2012, 04:16 PM
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zonker5,

Thank you for your contribution! Based on information in the database, your revolver would have shipped mid-1943, probably May-June. Since it was acquired from an RAF pilot, may I presume that it is a 5"-barreled example in .38 S&W (NOT .38 Special)? If so, a historical letter will simply show that it shipped to the Hartford Ordnance District in Springfield, Mass.; there would be no records at the S&W factory to show where it was shipped from there.


retarmyaviator,

Yes, Charlie and I have that SN in the database already. Thanx again!

Steve
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Old 01-20-2012, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by LWCmdr45 View Post

retarmyaviator,

Yes, Charlie and I have that SN in the database already. Thanx again!

Steve
Steve, at V786640, that's really a late gun. There are "SV" prefixed postwar commercial examples with considerably lower numbers. Can you opine on when it may have shipped? After V-E day, even?

One other thing. Lee Jarrett advises that after December 1944, the butt swivels were changed over to a blued finish. I note this gun does have the supposedly superceded casehardened one....

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Originally Posted by dannybot View Post
Any insight on mine: v464083? I inherited it from my father-in-law, who inherited it from his father-in-law, who was a merchant marine in the war for Gulf oil.
I'm presuming that your revolver does not have a U.S. property mark on the topstrap and that you haven't gotten a letter for it. I can tell you I have one with a serial number less than 10 off from yours and it lettered to the United States Maritime Commission. Given the known history you cite, I'd have a strong hunch that yours also went to the U.S.M.C.
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Old 01-20-2012, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by LWCmdr45 View Post
zonker5,

Since it was acquired from an RAF pilot, may I presume that it is a 5"-barreled example in .38 S&W (NOT .38 Special)?
Sorry I left that out; it is a 5" 38 s&w.

Thanks for the info.
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Old 01-20-2012, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by LWCmdr45 View Post
retarmyaviator,

Yes, Charlie and I have that SN in the database already. Thanx again!

Steve
Steve,

You are more than welcome. I should get off my rear and send in for a factory letter on this one.
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Old 01-21-2012, 12:44 AM
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Thanks Gooney, and Retarmyaviator
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Old 01-21-2012, 09:38 PM
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Two more for the data base, V451323 and V474094 (this one also has a P stamped after the sn on the bottom of the barrel). Both are 4" barrelled, 38 specials.

Neither has a sn on the butt, one has "US Property" faintly on the top strap. I don't know if these were buffed off in the refinishing or not, the rest of the markings are clear and crisp.

Both are of similar history. In 1952 a German Police Chief showed up at an American base and turned over a number of these saying "we don't need them anymore". They were put on sale at the post rod and gun club for $15 each and these two were purchased. They have been in the family ever since.

They were sent to a German gunsmith who refinished them in bright blue and checkered the grips. Feels like the action was worked on a bit, too. They are both excellent shoters!

Any information on dob, etc would be appreciated!

-Z-

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Old 01-22-2012, 04:11 AM
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zonker5,

Based on the database, both of these probably shipped from the S&W factory in late 1943: V451323 in November and V474904 in December.

*Which* one has the "U.S. PROPERTY" top strap marking? (Both likely had the marking originally, before the refinishing.)

In this period, the "P" proof usually appears in three places: in addition to the underside of the barrel, which you've mentioned, there were probably "P" markings removed from the upper left of the frame and the rear of the cylinder.

The removal of the serial numbers from the butts was a major faux pas. While the numbers remain on the barrels and cylinders, it is the number on the *frame* (i.e., the butt) that is the true serial number.

Steve
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Old 01-22-2012, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LWCmdr45 View Post
zonker5,

Based on the database, both of these probably shipped from the S&W factory in late 1943: V451323 in November and V474904 in December.

*Which* one has the "U.S. PROPERTY" top strap marking? (Both likely had the marking originally, before the refinishing.)

In this period, the "P" proof usually appears in three places: in addition to the underside of the barrel, which you've mentioned, there were probably "P" markings removed from the upper left of the frame and the rear of the cylinder.

The removal of the serial numbers from the butts was a major faux pas. While the numbers remain on the barrels and cylinders, it is the number on the *frame* (i.e., the butt) that is the true serial number.

Steve
V451323 has a faint "US Property" on the top strap. The markings on the barrel are also faint. V474094 has nothing on the top strap and the barrel marking are much crisper.

The P marking does appear on the rear of the cylinder. I agree about the sn but that was done a bit before my time .


-Z-
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Old 01-22-2012, 05:45 PM
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This is one of the South African contract Pre-Victory models that made it to South Africa. The cylinder hasn't been altered, so it's in the original chambering of .38 S&W. There is a crown stamped on the frame below the cylinder on the right side of the gun. I don't have a picture of it, but there is also "BO" stamped at the bottom right of the right side grip.










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Old 01-22-2012, 05:52 PM
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Default S&W pre-Victory?

6" barrel S&W revolver. At least related to Victory models.

Researching for my daughter-in-law's grandmother whose husband was a WWII and Korean War vet. They married in England during the war. He had collected 82 firearms of all descriptions and I am trying to catalog them.

Butt, inside right grip, barrel under extractor rod numbered: 730085.

Cylinder marked: V 164800 S.

Inside extractor star: 164800.

Canadian proof mark on butt; Upward arrow in side 'C'. Followed by 'P'.

Barrel right side: '38/380' stamped crudely, and '38 S.&W. CTG'.

Frame grip, right inside: Marks 'D' and 'B' plus 'OC' or 'CQ' or 'OO' overstruck, or links of chain?

Crane and number just below the crane recess are both: '65670'.

Cylinder parkerized, frame nicely blued. On right side: S&W trademark/logo + 'Made in USA' .

Checkered grips with apparently correct nickel S&W medallions.

I have many macro-focused pictures (large). I'll include two reduced in size here and more if useful. The inside grip marks are the ones I know least about.
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Victory data base-38-380-overview-small-jpg   Victory data base-8-38-380-frame-grip-right-inside-small-jpg  

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Old 01-22-2012, 06:58 PM
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Default Help ID and add this V to database

l just acquired this snubbie and it is serial # V 374223 with no british stamps at all and 38 specials fit like a glove ,hope some experts here will guide me as to what I have and guide me to where to look for markings .
Thanks, Bullstone

Last edited by bullstone; 01-22-2012 at 10:25 PM.
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Old 01-22-2012, 07:46 PM
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Your barrel has been cut off and refinished. I'm willing to bet if you look inside the cylinders you will see a ring where it has been reamed for the .38 special cases. If it says .38 S&W CTG on the right side of the barrel, you probably have a British lend-ease pistol. On the left top-strap it should have a U.S. Property marking (or maybe machining marks where it was ground off)

I swear I just saw it's twin in a pawn shop near Atlanta last week. Hmm.
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Old 01-22-2012, 10:35 PM
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gordonrick:
Thanks for the info ,I looked at the barrel side and top strap and found nothing as you stated probably ground off ,on the left side grip I found the letters V, S5 and 7.I have attached some more pictures of the cylinder and the left side for any additional comments you may be able to come up with.
Thanks Bullstone
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Victory data base-dscn1120-1-jpg   Victory data base-dscn1121-1-jpg   Victory data base-dscn1122-1-jpg   Victory data base-dscn1130-1-jpg   Victory data base-dscn1123-1-jpg  

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Old 01-23-2012, 03:27 AM
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Hi, just stumbled across this forum (researching a postwar USAF model 15-2) and had to join. I have several Victorys to add to your database. I can post pic's if you think they are needed. reply with your Email and I'll send you the rest of the serial #'s if you need them, I'm just a little uncomfortable with posting them ...Thank's in advance for any info you can provide.. John

1) V1763xx , 2" barrel (confirmed with factory letter), "UNITED STATES PROPERTY' marked top strap. I don't have the letter handy at the moment to see where the gun was shipped, but gun was purchased from vet who brought it home from Vietnam. ( I bought all his flight gear, VERY interesting individual, ex. USAF who flew various aircraft out of several bases in Thailand..)

2) V1794xx, 4" barrel, "US NAVY" marked top strap, unissued, one of 3 consecutive serial numbered guns that were brought home by a USN pilot who flew with VF-4 in WW2 ( he would only sell me one gun, so I don't know the other serials exactly...) No S&W letter yet on this gun.

3) V1642xx, 4" barrel, "U.S. Navy" marked top strap. Bought this gun and it's holster from another USN pilot along with his helmet, goggles, and several flight suits. ( he flew F6F Hellcats)

4) V84960, 5" barrel, 38 S&W, lend lease gun, "UNITED STATES PROPERTY" top strap, reimport, lots of british (?) proofs
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