22/40 Meaning of 40

paplinker · #1 01-11-2012, 08:17 PM

Hello, I would like to know what the 40 means on a 22/40.I have been looking in the SSWC and not found the right area for explanation.I understand that its a 2nd model. I also wanted to know if the short action is the same mechanically as a pre 17. Does one function or feel better than the other? Thanks Rich,

crsides · #2 01-11-2012, 08:32 PM

1940.

It had a very short manufacturing life span before the war took over.

Charlie

paplinker · #3 01-11-2012, 09:42 PM

So 40 on 22/40 means the shipping year?

Hondo44 · #4 01-11-2012, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdGreen

all of the second model Masterpieces were manufactured in 1940.
bdGreen

bdgreen,

Please correct me if I'm wrong, I don't mean to nit pick but just clarify for someone unfamiliar with them. I believe the K22/40 or 22/40 is the K22 Masterpiece, which is the 2nd model K22.
The post war K22 Masterpiece with ribbed barrel being the 3rd Model K22 (2nd Masterpiece).

Hope this helps,

Hondo44 · #5 01-11-2012, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paplinker

So 40 on 22/40 means the shipping year?

They'd each have to be lettered to confirm that because the manufactured date and shipping date can vary more than a year.

rburg · #6 01-11-2012, 10:27 PM

We speculate (because we don't know) a bunch of things. I believe we've seen some K22 Outdoorsman that did ship in 1940 also. Just like so many things, the "transition" wasn't real clean. Could be (speculation again) that S&W didn't build or ship in numeric order. You can be pretty sure if they had some Outdoorsman still in production, they were finished, put in the vault, and shipped.

Those of us lucky enough to be the current curators of early postwar guns have concluded (speculation again) that a bunch of features on the 3rd models were pretty close to the 2nd Models. As the transition progressed, the last of the features, the ejector knob (see DC's little project up in the members section) might have been the last to go.

The feature that was so much nicer in 1940 over 1946-7 is the finish. Those early guns were the equal of the Outdoorsman before them. As much as I like my early K series guns, they can't approach the finish on the ancestors.

We have little or no proof of much of this. I believe in earlier discussions with others who own and feed 2nd Models, they seemed to be shipped with nickle large screwdrivers. That conclusion I think came when Bruce also said his had them. I've only got 2 of them, and the second came without even so much as a place to live (meaning I found a Katrina trailer/box later.) If anyone has the original screwdriver, please post which it is. I have the same problem with my early post war models. K155 came with a * on the butt. K166 had its box and a large nickle SAT. From that my speculation is they used the same SATs as their ancient ancestors, being maybe 6 years and no intervening production.

If anyone knows any of this stuff, please explain it in simple terms we can understand, and also how you know it (again, we demand proof, something we don't provide!)

bullmack · #7 01-11-2012, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rburg

came without even so much as a place to live (meaning I found a Katrina trailer/box later.)

That's priceless!

paplinker · #8 01-11-2012, 11:22 PM

Thanks on the 40 part. Back on the action question. I ask about it as i wonder since i only see the stop notch in one year, did they change anything inside also to create a better working gun? I wish to own one but i want to feel confident that it will function as well as my pre 17s. I assume going to the short action was new back then, and they may of had some kinks.

Hondo44 · #9 01-12-2012, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdGreen

The K22-40 is the 2nd Model K22.
It is the First Model Masterpiece.
The First Model K22 was the Outdoorsman.
And, as you stated, the Post War K22 is the 3rd Model K22. It does not typically carry the label of 2nd Model Masterpiece as the K22-40 is most notably labeled the 2nd Model, K22 Masterpiece. If you will note my puncuation then you may understand my efforts here.

bdgreen,
OK, yes that clears up what you meant now and we are in agreement then. It was just the "lack" of punctuation in your 1st post that was confusing.
Thank you,

Hondo44 · #10 01-12-2012, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rburg

.....The feature that was so much nicer in 1940 over 1946-7 is the finish. Those early guns were the equal of the Outdoorsman before them. As much as I like my early K series guns, they can't approach the finish on the ancestors.

We have little or no proof of much of this. I believe in earlier discussions with others who own and feed 2nd Models, they seemed to be shipped with nickle large screwdrivers. That conclusion I think came when Bruce also said his had them. If anyone knows any of this stuff, please explain it in simple terms we can understand, and also how you know it (again, we demand proof, something we don't provide!)

Proof, what's that? (Oh wait, bdgreen said not to encourage you) LOL. Only having a 1st Model, I'm not fortunate enough to be a curator on a K22 2nd Model, Masterpiece yet. However over many years I've seen a few of friend's that are reputable collectors (not 4 sale, the story of my life) obtained from original owners. Those with SATs match yours and bdgreen's description. So absolute proof, no, only more anecdotal evidence. But I too agree with both of your conclusions.

I have to say the pre war mirror glass like finish is for me also, the seduction that draws me to the pre war beauties.

Hondo44 · #11 01-12-2012, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paplinker

Thanks on the 40 part. Back on the action question. I ask about it as i wonder since i only see the stop notch in one year, did they change anything inside also to create a better working gun? I wish to own one but i want to feel confident that it will function as well as my pre 17s. I assume going to the short action was new back then, and they may of had some kinks.

Here's a very interesting thread about the "stop notch", 1st associated with the 22/40 and then a standard post war feature before the new style hammer. It illustrates one anomaly of so many that make collecting Smiths so interesting.

I wouldn't say there were any kinks with the short action of the pre war 22/40 Masterpiece or post war Masterpieces. The anti backlash trigger was introduced at the same time and the only other action change was the post war improved hammer block safety.

DCWilson · #12 01-12-2012, 01:09 AM

Don't I recall that when it was in design, the postwar K-22 was called the K-22/46? I'm sure I have seen that assertion someplace.

I just hope I'm not the one who asserted it.

Hondo44 · #13 01-12-2012, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCWilson

Don't I recall that when it was in design, the postwar K-22 was called the K-22/46? I'm sure I have seen that assertion someplace.

I just hope I'm not the one who asserted it.

David,

I do recall I learned of the 22/38 for the pre war from your post here but that's something different:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/swca-me...#post136207787

handejector · #14 01-12-2012, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCWilson

Don't I recall that when it was in design, the postwar K-22 was called the K-22/46? I'm sure I have seen that assertion someplace.

I just hope I'm not the one who asserted it.

N&J, page 238.

K-.22/46
K-.38/46
K-.32/46

DCWilson · #15 01-12-2012, 10:58 AM

Thank you. That looks familiar and it would have taken me a long time to find it again.