With the help of Linde, I was able to verify the correct provenance for a 5" K38 I spied at a local gun auction. It was partially incorrectly identified as they listed the S/N as the assembly number off the yoke. It is a 4 screw, and in excellent condition. So today I attended the auction and was able to buy it for less than I had been expecting to pay. It does appear to have been back to S&W for a refinish in 11-66. I found it is one of only 470 sold to the IL State Police in 1957. I was able to find it had been put into the auction by a 80 yr old retired IL State Police member, who had shot on the pistol team. I'm trying to learn the name to develop further information.






To put the icing on the cake, I was able to buy it for about what you would pay for used standard Mod 15.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

I was watching that one. I am glad some one on this forum got it. It is quite a clean looking gun in an unusual configuration and I bet it will shoot the lights out.

Another member gave me a heads-up and I placed some bids on it, but I wasn't willing to take too much of a chance without seeing it in person. I thought it looked correct, but couldn't be positive from pics alone. I think I was the only bidder besides you. Sorry for running it up! I'm glad one of us got it. Congrats! It's a beauty.

It shouldn't be too hard to find correct diamond grips for it.

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Chris
SWCA #2243 SWHF #292

Outstanding . . . congratulations on picking up a great example of a scarce and very desirable Masterpiece. You done good!

Russ

cgt4570 was good to bid against you! Glad you didn't bid any further. There were about 500 people at the auction, standing room only. Actually there were very few S&W's, but a couple hundred Colt & Winchesters. I wish this one had been earlier in the auction, as I would have bid on a couple old Colt's had I known what I could have gotten this for. What I think is neat, is it is almost certain this gun has only been in the possession on 1 other person all these years. I'm trying to verify that, and learn about the individual.

It's kind of scarey bidding against literally the whole country on Proxi Bid, you never know how things are going to go. Most all the Colts went high, a Colt Boa (I had never heard of one) went for $4000.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Now that is a good snag. I purchased one similar just a couple months ago that also numbered to 1957.

Abt a year ago Linde sold me an over run of the ISP guns. Its a tack driver. Hope yous shoots as good. You have a nice gun, the 5 inchers have a neat look to them. Oh yea, thanks again Russ. Larry

Larry, always glad to see these fine 5" Masterpieces in the hands of someone who appreciates and enjoys them. Russ

I liked the post, but I am pretty sure I am ready to hate you.

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NHI, 10-8.

Doug don't be hateful.
DW

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"NUTS"

Bastid. Sell me one of those... Katie will thank you...

Great job H-Richard. I checked thru the day at work and when I saw what it sold for I knew that you had been successful. Can't wait to see it . Joe.

"Nuts!"

I think I read somewhere that those guns were not allowed to leave the state of IL per the ATF...let me look into it.

I don't know how they feel but they look like a perfectly balanced gun.

Easy for you to say.

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NHI, 10-8.

Begging H Richard's pardon for using his thread to satisfy my curiosity about ISP 5" K-38s, I'd like to ask you owners about a few details that I can't see in your pictures or learn from the SCSW. First, are all ISP 5 inchers 4 screw like I would predict from their 1957 date or were any of them 5 screw? Second, do their barrel diameters reduce as abruptly as Combat Masterpieces or are they shortened K-38 Target Masterpiece barrels? Are the ISP serial numbers anywhere on this forum? Lastly, how scarce are non-ISP 5" K-38s from the 1950s?

(1) all of the ISP 5" K38s are believed to be 4-screw
(2) they are factory-shortened 6" Heavy Masterpiece barrels
(3) individual serial numbers have been identified but I don't believe a complete list has been published on this forum
(4) non-ISP 5" K-38 Heavy Masterpieces (ISP overruns) are not as scarce as those shipped to the ISP . . . some believe that means there were more of them made . . . others believe that those owned by ISP Troopers simply don't come up for sale as often . . . it's probably some of both.

There was also a 5" K-38 special ordered by the Missouri State Highway Patrol in 1952. They are 5-screw frames with the early tapered barrel. Most of them are still in the hands of the Troopers who carried them or a family member. There were a few "overruns" . . . but not very many.

And then there were individual or small batches of special ordered K-38s with 5" barrels that were not associated with either the ISP or the MSHP. Don't know how many were produced but they do exist and may out number the two most-notable special orders.

Russ

Any idea how many in this configuration exist, and a decent market price? I'm going to be looking for a K38, and I might well like the 5".

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NHI, 10-8.

I was told there were 470 of the ISP 5" guns shipped from S&W. The one I got was in the possession of a retired 80 yr old trooper who it is believed had it continually from 1957. So they don't turn up too often. Previously, I had never seen one. I had seen a MSHP 5", but not an ISP gun. The market price is whatever you can get the seller to take. I did hear a pristine one brought just over $2200. Fortunately mine did not.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Doug,

Based on a pretty thorough search, there were less than 500 in each of the two state police special orders . . . and probably that many overruns (most of them heavy barrel). Those are the only two LE orders that were found in factory records.

There's no way to get a handle on how many 5" K-38s were special ordered by dealers for sale to individuals but . . . based on the relative number of them that have surfaced compared to the MSHP & ISP s/n's . . . I would say another 1,000. That would take us to 2,000 total but one very knowledgeable estimate is as high as 5,000. In any event, they don't show up very often which makes them "scarce" if you're looking for one.

Condition varies widely . . . as does the knowledge of buyers & sellers. Start with the value of a comparable condition 6" K-38 from an uninformed seller to five times that price between a knowledgeable buyer & seller.

Good luck in your search . . . the search alone is fun and they're well worth the effort if you find one.

Russ

Linde, Thank you for your research on these revolvers. Both H Richard and myself, as well as many other members,have benefitted from your work. All my best, Joe.

All take NOTE of the refinish date stamp.
It is VERY unusual to see the full date.
Normally, it would read:
11 66
or
11.66

I have very rarely seen a full date!

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Given that reality, I think I will stick with a future search for info regarding M14s/K38s in general, and a 6" barrel. It's not like it would be a carry gun of any real use.

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NHI, 10-8.

Linde,
Thank-you for your reply answering all my questions. I just purchased a 1953 5 screw tapered barrel 5” K-38 and wanted to know where it fits in

Please send me the full serial number in a PM or email (see my profile) . . . I'll check the records and let you know whatever specific information about your 5" K-38 is available.

Russ

I noticed that too and didn't know what to make of it. I wondered if it might not be the handiwork of an armorer out in the field, but it appears the OP knows for a fact it was refinished at S&W, so, yes, that is odd.

from the pictures i've seen just on this thread brings up another question: were the target grips rosewood or another dark wood? thanks. lee

The target grips currently on it are Goncolo Alves (? SP) and put on when it was redone in 66. There are a pair of walnut diamond center targets coming which is what it had been originally shipped with.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

H, thanks. i've never been real sure when different types of wood were used for target grips other than the earlier walnut ones. lee