I found this at the show in Las Vegas this week end. 5 inch blue non registered magnum serial number 60275. The gun is a reblue with "FORD" stamped on grip frame.
The grips do not number to the gun,are in the 50000 serial number range fit really good. The gun has a COCKEYED HAMMER , maybe a KING. Roy Jinks says shipped December 1939





Additional photos, looks like the hammer stud was polished down , hammer appears to be a regular pre war N frame with oil grooves and after market target extention. I do not see that hammer stud has been moved

Sure nothing wrong with that.

Very nice acquisition.

I like that one. What's your impression of the Ford refinish?
Bob

Very nice find! I'll look forward to a range report. Would you mind sharing the 1st 3 digits of the serial# on the grips?

Thanks for the post,

Jerry

Fords did a good job of not over buffing, rounding corners etc. The cylinder has some plum color but I am not sure if that is caused by the metal or Ford's bluing proceess. I did not see the condition of the gun before they refinished it but my impression of their work is good.

Jerry:51653

Nice looking old gun and I bet it would probably shoot real purty.

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Vaya con Dios

I thought the "cockeyed" hammer was offset to one side. Isn't this a target hammer conversion?

Roy, Your gun looks good and it has a beautiful set of magnas.

Chad

"I thought the "cockeyed" hammer was offset to one side. Isn't this a target hammer conversion?"

I believe King's refered to this as a "double cockeyed hammer". Of course, S&W adapted it as a target hammer, as we know it today.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Exactly right. Most of the good ideas incorporated into S&W and Colt products after WWII were ripped off from King: target hammers, short action, vent ribs....

Regards,
Kevin Williams

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Kevin Williams SWCA1649 HF208

"
I believe King's refered to this as a "double cockeyed hammer". Of course, S&W adapted it as a target hammer, as we know it today."

OK, but that makes no sense. "Cockeyed" means it is asymmetrical. This type of hammer is perfectly symmetrical.

I was at the same table when Roy purchased the gun and the pics don't do it justice. It is very nice and looks fantastic. As Sax is saying the "double cockeyed" hammer does seem like an oxymoron. I have to say that the feel of that particular hammer is outstanding and shows a high level of craftmanship no matter what it's called.

I think it's great that Roy was able to acquire this very interesting gun and share it with the forum and S&W collectors. For me, it was the most interesting S&W I saw at the show. It will be great to see what more he learns about it and shares with the rest of us.

Roy,
Nice one! Now you need to find the other barrel lengths you lack! Be sure to bring it to Tulsa so we can put our fingerprints all over it!
Bill

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38-44heavyduty.com

Roy:

Beautiful find!

However, my guess is that your gun has had the hammer stud relocated for a post war short throw hammer. The only reason that I think this is that the exposed hammer stud pin that is so prominent below the thumb piece on prewar guns is not there on your obviously prewar frame. Plus, the hammer appears to have more of the post war profile. That would indicate to me that someone (perhaps King) removed the pre-war stud, welded up the hole, re-drilled a new hole, replaced the stud and filed/finished it smooth with the left face of the frame (in the post war style). I also recall reading a post with photos that showed a gun that had the above referenced "operation" successfully performed.

Then again... I may be out to lunch and that would not be the first time or the last, BUT, I would love to see the inside of the gun frame with all of the "guts" (or at a minimum the hammer) removed.

Thanks for sharing a very interesting and cool gun!

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Richard
Engraved S&W fan

Very nice find, congratulations!

Roy really glad you found a enjoyable great S&W 5"er that is shootable and yet still a good gun for any N frame collection! I am sorry i did not make it on Friday to the LAs Vegas show, I still had busniess to attend at SHOTSHOW 2012, but an aquantence did tell me he was really impressed! Cheers from Canada Dale Z!

Very nice, Roy. Congratulations on your find.

RE: "Cockeyed" hammer designation.

When a wider area was added to the left of the normal spur it was to assist the right handed shooter in accessing the spur without moving his hand. When the widening was placed on the right, it was for easier access by a left hand shooter. In those cases, the terms "right hand cockeye" and "left hand cockeye" seem quite acceptable. If we acknowledge those names, then the addition of a wider area to both sides from the mid-line (i.e for ambidextrous use), the term "Double Cockeyed Hammer" makes perfect sense.

I suspect that the term "target hammer" came along later, most probably added by a marketing department.

Bob

Group. That's a very nice gun. Roy showed it to me, when he bought it at the Las Vegas show. Should make a great shooter and Ford did a very good job on the reblue. Whether they did the hammer work, or not, I don't know, however I don't believe that's a King double cockeyed hammer. Note two things (1) It's not stamped "King Cockeyed" on the left side, as are all King hammers, and (2) the trade mark stamping on the back of the hammer does not appear on any King hammers in my parts stash, but does appear on S&W hammers. It will be interesting to see what Roy's factory letter will say about what hammer was on the gun when it was shipped. Ed.

Great find! Love the hammer (whoever made it). It was definitely made by a fine craftsman. Looking forward to seeing what the letter says.

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Miss My Buddy crsides!!

Bump with additional photos

Roy:

Great photos. The hammer on one of my RM's looks just like that (still has grooves on the side, etc...), with the exception that it is "cockeyed" only on the right side. It is on an RM that was shipped directly to King. My understanding is that King would modify the existing hammers that came on your gun.

Here is a photo:



As to the hammer stud, I agree with you that it does not look to have been moved, however, someone removed a lot of metal from the frame side to make it flush and smooth with the rest of the frame flat...

For comparison, here is a photo of a frame flat from another of my RM's:



Thanks for sharing and again, congrats on a great find!

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Richard
Engraved S&W fan

Factory letter information posted

Roy,

My RM # 48402 (shipped 5-36) has the same double cockeyed King hammer spur modification. It also has a King reflector ramp front sight with red bead and King #112 rear sight white outline. Interestingly, the documentation from both Jinks and the SWHF show that the gun shipped from the factory with the King sights installed but there is no mention of the King modification to the hammer.

My #48202 does also have a shorter hammer throw than normal pre-war S&W and the hammer stud has NOT been moved. If you will closely check your cocked King hammer against a standard cocked S&W hammer I believe that you may find that it has a "King Short Action". I have not made a close comparison of the internals of the two actions so I can't comment on how King achieved the shorter throw.

Whether my gun went from the Factory to King before shipping to the owner (a hardware store in NY) or went after they received it is unknown. The gun was finely engraved by an owner so it is possible that the hammer modification was done at that time.

Bob

I was at the NRA Museum yesterday and closely admiring Clrk Gable's RM. I noted that the hammer had an unusual wide spur and side grooves...best of my recollection just like the one we are talking about here.

So vintage, very cool.

Roy,You can send it my way,plum cylinder and all.

Bump to top with letter from SWHF

I just had to re-read all the responses to this thread, wasn't sure if I had said this or not...

That. is. so. cool.

Beautiful gun, sir, I am in awe.

Roy

Can you post a pic of the Fords marking on the frame?

I have a Ford's refinish but do not see a marking.

thanks


Charlie

I am green with envy! (smile) Congrats on the find.

Dave

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RSVN '69-'71
PCSD (Ret)

As requested here is photo on the FORD mark on left grips frame. I have not seen another FORD mark so if this is not correct please chime in.

Very interesting marking on it, nice gun, how does it behave at the range?
Cheers!!!!

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Heavy Duty Enthusiast!!!!!

Thanks Roy. MIne is not marked, perhaps they have stopped marking them. I have a receipt where the work was done, so .... ???


CHarlie