I just received this model 48, made 1960. Don't have the factory letter to confirm everything and that's a rub right now.

However, it's stamped "278" on the frame under the grip for Feb 1978 rework. Also, has a "R-Bi" right above the "278" for refinish blue. What's the "i" mean?

There's a diamond on the barrel flat indicating "major rework". It's been "class a" engraved, has finger grooved smooth target grips with large irovy diamond inlay, red ramp front sight, white outline rear sight, .5" hammer/trigger.

It is a beautiful gun. But no letter, yet. I was wondering if one of you sold me this gun? Or has maybe seen it before. It it a one of a kind and stands right out.

Here's some pics

Attached Images

	right side full.jpg (31.5 KB, 503 views)
	left grip.jpg (40.9 KB, 354 views)
	left side full.jpg (32.6 KB, 422 views)
	rework stamp.jpg (78.5 KB, 335 views)
	barrel flat.jpg (57.7 KB, 310 views)

I'm no expert but I believe those are heavily sanded and modified target stocks. I don't think S&W ever made anything like those.

I don't see the S&W logo on the gun. Is it covered by the engraving? Pretty sure it wasn't shipped as an engraved gun and not at all sure it's done by a S&W engraver.

The ramp sight is unusual on this model with this barrel length. Patridge type would be typical. May be modified?

Saxonpit, I was just getting ready to send you a PM on this as I've seen some of your threads.
I just got this off Gunbroker. It can be returned and may since it's missing "the letter".
There's is a small logo on left side just above the front of the trigger guard. So, the side plate was replaced with a full engraved new one on the right side and a S&W logo placed on the left in a fairly obscure spot. I've never seen one here.
The grips with the inlay are just "perfect". There's just no screw-ups in dropping the inlay down. I'll agree in that I haven't ever seen anything like them before.
A lot of the marks are correct, but still "show me the letter".
Are you basing it not being factory on the style of engraving? Too much punch dot? Or just not good deep chisel?
Thanks for commenting.

ars1, I watched this gun sell on Gunbroker and for what it's worth I thought it should have sold for more......Good for you! Was your gun sent back to the factory...Yes. Did it come back a better gun...Yes. We collectors like everything to be factory original and generally shy away from guns that aren't. I think this is one of those rare instances where it came back better and more valuable than it's original form. New in box 48's are changing hands $850-$1000 and factory engraved 48's are $2000-$2500, so don't let anybody sell you short on this gun. You did well.

Chad Gripp

That's a beauty. As to the front sight issue, there is a forum member here that recently purchased a 48 with red ramp front sight and smooth rosewood target stocks, all original. It and several others were special ordered from a retailer in the Chicago area if I remember correctly. He had a thread with pics a few months ago.

The relocation of the S&W Logo to in front of the Triggerguard makes me think that Russ Smith may have been the Engraver!! Quite a bit of his work is found to have the S&W Logo placed there!! He is also well-known for his custom work done on grips he uses on Revolvers he's engraved as well!! Not saying this is his work,but just my personal opinion judging from some of the work I've seen him do!! Something to check into!!

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Masterpiece

Aaron

I have to agree with SP, in that its not factory work. I've been wrong
before, and could be here, as well. Maybe it was something that
someone wanted Russ Smith to do. Maybe. If it was sent back for
engraving, then a letter would not contain that information.

Unless you really like the gun, personally, and will keep it, you should
return it. If you are planning on reselling it, you'll be at a
disadvantage, because you may have a difficult , if not impossible,
time establishing that its factory engraving.

Regards, Mike Priwer

Thanks for the info. I still don't know what the lower case "i" that's stamped on the frame means.

Also, how often would someone bother with the small S&W logo and replace the side plate with a fully engraved one? Maybe they really were good & simply wanted this gun to replicate factory work. At the least I figure the engraving got done & then factory reblued. But there's the diamond that is suppose to indicate "major rework". I assume this means anything from rebarrel, cylinder, or even engraving.

Where it stands with this gun is I'm getting the letter, but know that it'll not have anything about the "rework". So, everthing from the diamond stamp, sights, stocks, engraving will not be recorded. Only a "best judgement" from Roy will happen. I assume decent pictures to Roy is the best way for him to "see" the gun.

Anyways, in about 6 weeks I'll update this with the letter's results.

why would a letter not confirm the engraving? if it was sent back for a refinish and engraving was also chosen to be done, i think the letter would reflect that.....I have seen letters posted from members here before stating such treatment.

FWIW, I would NOT send the gun back until I got a letter. I dont think the grips are a factory job, but have seen the diamond inlay ivory on factory grips before (they are amazing nonetheless). It obviously went back for some sort of rework. and I would bet it was for a reblue and engraving and if it wasnt factory who cares.......that baby is B-E-A-UTIFUL....

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Kris
OGCA, NRA LM

The R-Bi stamp indicates the revolver was sent from Customer Service to the factory (engraving shop for example) for the work to be done. The S followed by a diamond indicates a refinish in standard blue. The work was done in February 1978. Based on the photos and the location of the S&W logo, it is possible the engraving was done by Russ Smith, but recently, we found a factory engraved revolver (by Tom Freyburger if I remember correctly) with a similarly placed logo.

The stocks appear to be "customized" factory stocks that were done outside of S&W.

Since the work was done after the revolver shipped as a plain revolver (most likely), a factory letter will not reflect the engraving or other modifications since finding the actual work orders is nearly impossible. However, if you send a couple of good photos with the letter request, Mr. Jinks may offer an opinion about who engraved the revolver.

Bill

Like I said, I am no expert. Due to the relocated logo I now think it appears to be a factory "aftermarket" piece rather than original factory work. A nice gun. If you bought it as a collectible I have no idea if it was a good deal. I don't deal in collectibles. I only have one engraved revolver and I carry and shoot it.

A few good photos for Mr Jinks to look at and we'll see what his expert opinion offers. It'll be a check to see what if any records "rework" might have done at the time. Maybe the more marks the better on a gun. That means more people touched it. Which might mean there's more of a chance some department documented their work. Then again, everyone may have thought it was someone elses job to do so. I assume they were busy and trying to run a business. As department managers go, I could believe through the generations there were those sticking to correct processes than others.
It is interesting to hear the opinions. If nothing else, the creator of this gun has figured out how to make people ponder the work. I could never make as fine a piece. There's 50-75 hours of work in this gun based on what I've been told. Maybe more. If so, at $10/hr you'd be insulting the artist. And we haven't even got to the $600-800 gun yet.
I get a kick out of SaxonPig. I bet he'd make a great shooter out of my Alvin White Pre-29. And some of Doc44's too.
Thanks,
Aaron

Aaron...the records of work done on returned guns are filed by date and the person who had the work done (although I have never actually seen these records). Mr. Jinks has told me finding a record on a gun returned for service or other work is next to impossible (certainly impractical) and I doubt if you will have any luck with that information in a factory letter.

I had a pair of 44 Magnums that were returned in 1976 and engraved and inlaid with gold by Russ Smith (he "signed" each revolver). Each lettered as being shipped as a plain revolver, although Mr. Jinks offered the opinion the guns were returned and engraved and inlaid by Mr. Smith. The records on the return were not found.

Bill

Aaron,

Regardless if Roy can give you any insight into whether or not a Factory Engraver like Russ Smith or Tom Freyburger did the work on the Revolver,or if it was even engraved at the Factory, in my opinion you picked up a Fine Revolver for the price!! You couldn't even come close to picking up an Engraved Revolver with that much quality today close to the price you paid let alone the fact it's a Very Early Model 48 to boot!! !!

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Masterpiece

Masterpiece, I thought the same thing on the price and overall appearance of a four screw 48. I'm happy with it and any extra perks from say Mr Jinks are icing.

I'd read threads from Doc44 & others already knowing to not expect a letter with rework details. But what's most interesting in this is comparisons to R Smith's work. That's pretty neat and I'll be sure to add that in the info to Mr. Jinks.

Saxonpig is very likely correct on the grips. Someone probacly did take a set of smooth targets & work the finger groves in them. The inlay is perfectly done. Now granted it's just straight lines, but someone had a pretty good hand & eye. And the "crack" really sets it off. Not a detraction at all IMHO.
Aaron

Aaron,

I think at this point in time I believe the most you can hope for is that Roy includes one of the "Looks To Be Engraved In The Style Of" or a "Finely Engraved Revolver" phrases he's know to use in some of his letters from time to time!! He has included these notations in a few that I've had lettered in the past that were most likely done in the trademark style of a Known Factory Engraver, but not signed!! Also, some think he may include these phrases when he believes there's a good possibility that the engraving may have been done at factory, but can't back it up with any documentation as to who actually engraved it!! As I'm sure you are aware of, very few Factory Engravers sign their work as it's not "Policy" to do so!! I'm also glad to hear Bill Cross made mention, as I did, that the Relocated Logo is something that Russ Smith has been known to do on some of the work he's done in the past!! Also, Tom Freyburger who may have apprenticed under Russ & has taken on some of his ideas as apprenticed engravers have been known to do!! By the way, Tom Freyburger has been known to sign his work under the Cylinder Release Thumbpiece!! Just thought I'd pass that along!!

In any case, give Roy as much information & photos you can!! Even wouldn't hurt to include some photos of the Grips just in case!! Maybe if you're lucky he'll include a few "Positive" Notations in the Letter!! It's the best you can hope for I believe!! Good Luck!!

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Masterpiece

Agree. I watched this gun through the end of the auction and thought that it was/is a real beauty. Sometimes you have to appreciate a gun for the work that has been put into it. That is what attracted me to this gun. It is very unique and those stocks are a for sure one of a kind... All of my dealings with the seller have been great!

Enjoy it!

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Richard
Engraved S&W fan

The letter came back from Roy. No mentions of any factory re-work at all. Not even with all the marks. I sent quite a few great looking photos showing all identifying marks and buttered it up with some of this posts commments. So, unless something got missed here, I am wondering, "Shouldn't something have been logged about reworks in 1978 timefreame?".

I still don't own a bonafide factory engraved S&W. All are after market.

Thoughts, Aaron

As Doc44 stated, repairs and custom work are filed under the owner's name, not the serial of the gun. If you know the name of the man who sent it in, Roy may be able to find the work order. Otherwise, no.

You already knew the gun shipped as a plain 48 and that's what the letter will (and does) indicate. Anything done on a return trip to the service department is not on the letter. You can say the gun was engraved by S&W but it's technically NOT a "factory engraved" piece as that implies it was originally shipped and sold in that condition.

Still a beautiful revolver (well, I don't care for the stocks).

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No life story has happy end.

Ugly stocks or not, it's got a spot in the safe. And on special occasions like Christmas, I might hang it on the tree to sparkle in the light. Thanks for the info and it's understood that the records are what they are. Would be neat to see some ambitious individual be allowed to digitize the records for Roy. I'd pitch in a couple days of data entry myself. Aaron