Greetings all!

I've spent a bit of time reading the forum posts and understand that I offer this question lacking certain information about the weapon in question such as pictures and quality of the finish etc. Fact is, I have never laid eyes on the weapon. My father has seen it and provides the following description:
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It is a Smith & Wesson, 4" barrel, 6 shot revolver, with plastic grips.
On the barrel " Smith & Wesson, Springfield, Mass, USA".
B 8 S&W Special US Service ctg 8

On the butt of the grip "60004"

Pat'd Apr 9 89, Mar 7 04, May 3 00, Jun 30 08, Aug 4 06, Dec 9 06, Oct 4 08,
Oct8 01, Dec 02, Jan 09, Jul 7 09.
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I'm hoping the S/N 60004 may be able to shed some light on this? Also, the "B 8" on the barrel stamp was interesting to me. No idea what that may be and I do not know if it has the same stamp quality as the manufacture stamp. I'm thinking it may have been stamped by an institutional owner? Police or something as an inventory marker? dunno...could just be dirt on my dad's glasses too.

The weapon is currently in the possession of the widow of the owner. He said it was his father's before he died last fall at 72 years old. I have no firm information on what his father did but rumor has it that he served in WWII.


Any information at all would be most useful. Primarily looking for a ball park value...and that can be a LARGE ball park. Basically is it a $200 weapon or a $500+ weapon.

With plastic grips, that cuts into the value significantly! Condition is everything, as to its value, a 95% + finish will increase its value significantly. A brown gun not so much. Mechanical condition should be excellent without endshake, sideplay of the cylinder, or a gap of >.005 between the barrel and cylinder. A brown gun, maybe $200 a pristine example with grips numbered to the cylinder, barrel, and butt, $500-700. Hope this helps. Others will be along to give you some of their thoughts.

This gun needs to be personally examined. Serial 60004 should be a
1906 gun, yet the latest barrel patent dates are 1909. This suggests
that the barrel has been replaced.

60004 would be a 4-screw frame, with no screw in front of the
trigger guard. By 1909, it would have been a 5-screw frame.
60004 would have had the old levering-style trigger rebound,
characterized by a stud on the left side of the frame, about an inch
below the thumb-piece. By 1909, it would have the new rebound
slide, and its pin is very close to the top of the frame cutout for the
upper end of the grips.

Check the rear face of the cylinder, and the flat under the barrel,
to see if there are numbered 60004.

If the barrel is a replacement, then its closer to $200.

Mike Priwer

Look again.
It does not say "B 8" on the barrel- it says "38".

38 S & W SPECIAL
& U.S. SERVICE CTG'S

with a mark similar to a Maltese cross at each end.

If the grips are black and have the S&W logo, they are not plastic, they are black hard rubber and proper for the gun.

That is most likely a Model 1902- 1st Change.
Value depends on the condition.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Thanks for the knowledge guys. Just spoke with my father who is going to visit the weapon again tomorrow and get some pictures, verify the SN on the cylinder and barrel. Will make that information available as soon as I get it.

Thanks again.

Here are the pics.

After seeing these it is clear this is a 5 Screw frame. After asking some carefully crafted questions of my father (about both what he saw and his sketchy photography skills) I am now of the opinion that he couldn't clearly make out the serial number. I will have to take a look myself to get that number and he lives a couple hours away so maybe next weekend I can get down there.

He did say the action is nice and properly tight. No play in the cylinder or trigger.

I have to remind myself often that my father is strictly a utilitarian gun owner. He doesn't think in terms of the history or collectible nature of a weapon. If it shoots, then it's a good weapon to him. I'm more interested in the historical aspects.

Welcome to the Forum.

As Lee said, the grips are hard rubber. I'd put the value at about $225-250.

Oh, the barrel is 5" long. You measure from the front of the cylinder forward to the end of the barrel.

__________________
John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Barrel questions aside, that has to be a Model of 1902/first change. It has both a round butt frame (1902 configuration) and a flat trigger return spring, revealed by the forward position of the small stud under the cylinder release. The Model of 1905 had the same stud position but a square butt, and the 1905/first change and all later guns had the stud in the rear position, where it anchored the coil spring used in the new trigger rebound slide design.

So I think the serial number and patent dates have simply been misread, which is easy enough to do.

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David Wilson

I'll lay eyes on the weapon soon enough and all will be resolved with the possible exception of the value which I can take care of with a trip to the local serious gun shop.

Can you guys point me toward a good resource to learn the history of these weapons? Was this a strictly civilian model? If it was a military weapon, is there any way to determine where it was issued or to what organization?

You're already there!

Yes


Not a Military weapon


Some of the earlier ones were issued experimentally to the U.S. Army and Navy for evaluation, and, those were limited to the m1899 and m1902 I believe, and, they would have heckered Wooden Stocks and be stamped US and or NAVY and have Military Inspector's Stamps on them also.


The term "U S SERVICE CT'G" means .38 Long Colt.

you guys rock...but you prolly already knew that, right?

Thanks for the wisdom on all fronts!

One of the best books to learn about S&W's is the Standard Catalog of S&W by Jim Supica and Richard Nahas. It is available from Midway at (i think) less than $30.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244