Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > Smith & Wesson Revolvers > S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961
o

Notices

S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-28-2012, 11:45 AM
dwarren2201 dwarren2201 is offline
Member
Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory  
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Kansas City Mo.
Posts: 7
Likes: 1
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Grandpas Victory

I was wondering if anyone could tell me a little about a gun my grandpa left my wife and I? I believe it to be a victory pistol it is in good shape about 80% of its finish tight workings and has original holster. The s/n is V45596*. My grandpa has had it since the early 60s. It has no military markings I can find. This is all i know but this is based on what I have been told. Any help is appreciated.2re.JPG

3re.JPG

4re.JPG
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-28-2012, 12:10 PM
Texas Star Texas Star is offline
US Veteran
Absent Comrade
Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory  
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 20,362
Likes: 24,260
Liked 16,154 Times in 7,408 Posts
Default

Looks like someone put 1920's commercial grips on a British Victory Model, often called the .38-200. The barrel is probably marked for .38 S&W cal. cartridges? Not for .38 Special?

I've answered several questions about these guns in the past two weeks. Just look for those topics in this forum and read about the gun.

There were well over 568,000 of these made for Commonwealth nations between 1940-1945, and they probably outnumbered Webley and Enfield revolvers.

Before April, 1942, they had checkered grips with silver medallions. Bright blued finishes, too. After that date, they wore smooth walnut stocks and had dull gray finishes with many more tool marks. I think the change was because the USA had entered the war and also needed the same basic model, but in 38 Special with four-inch barrels. The need for increased production resulted in some shortcuts taken where appearance was involved.

Your gun has a five-inch barrel, the most common, and the only length supplied to the Brits after that date.

The holster is for a US Victory Model with four-inch barrel. It is one of several types of US holster for those guns. Commonwealth holsters varied,but were of olive (Army) or blue-grey (RAF) canvas webbing material Tankers had a different open-topped holster that rode low on the leg.

Visit the British Gun Pub forum on Gunboards.com for detailed info and photos, etc. And look for the previous discussions here in the past few weeks.

Your gun seems unaltered, which is good. Many were butchered after the war by surplus dealers, and some were converted to fire .38 Special ammo, which is a bad idea, as the case diameter is smaller than the .38 S&W "regular" chamber. .38 Special cases may crack on firing, depending on the exact dimension of the chambers in a particular cylinder.

Your gun is an important historical item, of interest to both S&W collectors and to British martial arms collectors. Treasure it and care for it. But it is low powered and you'd do better to buy a .38 Special or other modern caliber gun for defense.

With US lead bullet ammo, the velocity of a 145-146 grain bullet is only about 650 FPS. You can handload hotter, but not by a lot. Factory ammo can be hard to find and is often pretty expensive. I have heard of people loading ammo with hollowbase .38 Spcl. wadcutter ammo, to let the base of the bullet expand to the larger bore. Others report using .38 Special bullets, sometimes sized to .359-.360" Accuracy is usually very good, but allowable velocity remains less than for .38 Special ammo. Still, the gun will take cottontail rabbits or kill snakes at average ranges. Consult loading manuals for handloads.

Last edited by Texas Star; 02-28-2012 at 12:16 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #3  
Old 02-28-2012, 12:54 PM
Goony's Avatar
Goony Goony is offline
SWCA Member
Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory  
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,917
Likes: 500
Liked 1,953 Times in 502 Posts
Default

Texas Star pretty well covered it.

Your revolver most likely shipped in the summer of 1942.

The butt swivel hole has evidently been plugged, what with I cannot tell from the photo.

Check and see if it will chamber a .38 Special round. If it does, and the number on the rear face of the cylinder matches the serial number on the butt, that's not a good thing.

The small star mark following the serial number is intriguing....
__________________
SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-28-2012, 01:19 PM
dwarren2201 dwarren2201 is offline
Member
Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory  
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Kansas City Mo.
Posts: 7
Likes: 1
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Hole in butt is not plugged was dirty at time of pictures. I do know the numbers match and my grandpa says it has never fired a 38. special only 38. s & w yeah and ive never seen another with a star. Thank you guys so much for your help.

Last edited by dwarren2201; 02-28-2012 at 01:30 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-28-2012, 01:35 PM
walnutred walnutred is online now
US Veteran
Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,450
Likes: 785
Liked 3,030 Times in 1,002 Posts
Default

From the pictures you have a nice example of a Lend Lease Victory. I would offer to trade you a pair of correct grips for the ones on the revolver now. However, if I did that I would be vigorously and correctly criticized for taking advantage of a newcomer. ;-D How well does the handgun fit into the holster? Meaning does the barrel stick out the bottom? To me it looks like the holster is made to look like a US issue holster but is not issue. What marks are on the holster?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-28-2012, 02:01 PM
opoefc opoefc is offline
Absent Comrade
US Veteran
SWCA Founding Member
Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory  
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: San Diego, CA. USA
Posts: 10,536
Likes: 3,529
Liked 6,883 Times in 2,796 Posts
Default

The full serial number is V45596. The mark after the 6 is a defect caused by a piece of broken die, or scrap, stuck in the numbering machine when the serial number was stamped on the frame. The gun was shipped to the Hartford Ordnance Depot ( purchasing agents for the British) in early to mid 1942 period. You have a nice family heirloom that appears to be in good original condition, except for the addition of 1920-30 era S&W grips. Original grips were smooth walnut, with no medallions. The grips on your gun are worth more than the cost of buying a nice pair of Victory Model grips, should you wish to replace them with an original pair. As said above, the holster is the style used with the 4 inch barrel US military guns. The British holster for your gun was probably the canvas style used by the Brits to fit Victory models and their Enfield & Webley service revolvers. Good Luck Ed.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-28-2012, 03:16 PM
dwarren2201 dwarren2201 is offline
Member
Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory  
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Kansas City Mo.
Posts: 7
Likes: 1
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

I appreciate all of you guys and the sharing of all the wonderful information. I will be putting this gun back to factory specs as best as I can. I am allways up for trades on anything. But I do believe in treating people right. I do think the grips are verry nice but I would like this gun like it was out of the box. The holster has no markings I have seen but it does seem to be well made. So if anyone can help me on parts please let me know. I need grips and a lanierd ring. Please forgive any spelling error.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-28-2012, 03:38 PM
Skeptic 9c's Avatar
Skeptic 9c Skeptic 9c is offline
Member
Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory  
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Northeastern Florida
Posts: 1,826
Likes: 4,981
Liked 5,599 Times in 1,016 Posts
Default

Thanks for the info. But, it makes me wonder. Can anyone do a Chrono comparison of the Victory 4" .38 Special and a "real" British 5" 200 gr?

Geoff
Who is a curious fellow.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-28-2012, 04:19 PM
walnutred walnutred is online now
US Veteran
Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,450
Likes: 785
Liked 3,030 Times in 1,002 Posts
Default

Based on my limited testing using FN 380 IIz ball ammo the British military loading developed around 150 foot pounds of muzzle energy while The WW2 38 Special load developed around 200 FP. The shape of the British projectile was supposed to cause it to tumble.

I always found the Brits adopting this ctg to be uncharacteristically odd. Normally they made good choices in military weapons. The sad thing is they came so close. Imagine if the Brits had chambered the Webley in 38 Special rather that 38/200. It might still be in production today.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-28-2012, 05:16 PM
Waidmann Waidmann is offline
Member
Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory  
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 432
Likes: 8
Liked 30 Times in 27 Posts
Default

dWarren, received your PM not alot to add. Smooth grips show up regularly on Gunbroker as do butt swivel; take your time and shop prices. The grips you have should close to cover the cost of these items. The Old Western Scrounger is the only current source for .38-200 class ammo.

Having a family heirloom is a fine thing!

It is unusual but in no way unheard of for a K-200 to escape both military and proofhouse marking.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-28-2012, 11:44 PM
Cyrano's Avatar
Cyrano Cyrano is offline
US Veteran
Absent Comrade
Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory  
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,581
Likes: 13,500
Liked 6,743 Times in 2,526 Posts
Default

Here are examples of the holsters T-Star and opoefc mentioned. The first is the standard belt holster with a S&W Victory on it. The revolver is much like yours, and has the smooth grips. The lanyard loop isn't too visible. Lanyard loops and the pins that secure them can be obtained from gun parts dealers; I'd try Gun Parts Corp first. The second is the 'tanker' model holster. It is pictured with an Enfield No 2 revolver, but your S&W will fit also (I just tried mine in it).
Attached Images
File Type: jpg L1010648.jpg (83.8 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg L1010640.jpg (70.8 KB, 25 views)

Last edited by Cyrano; 02-28-2012 at 11:49 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #12  
Old 02-29-2012, 11:28 AM
dwarren2201 dwarren2201 is offline
Member
Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory  
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Kansas City Mo.
Posts: 7
Likes: 1
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

I tried chambering a 38. special and it will not go all the way in. So it is official it has not been altered to take a 38. special round. Attached is a closer pic of the serial, I dont see the star being anything but a star stamp. Thanks again for all the info.

PS. I have been wrong in the past.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg star.JPG (223.6 KB, 26 views)
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-29-2012, 11:42 AM
walnutred walnutred is online now
US Veteran
Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,450
Likes: 785
Liked 3,030 Times in 1,002 Posts
Default

I though the star ment the firearm had gone back to the factory for service.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-29-2012, 12:00 PM
dwarren2201 dwarren2201 is offline
Member
Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory Grandpas Victory  
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Kansas City Mo.
Posts: 7
Likes: 1
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

I had heard that aswell. But someone told me it was a mis stamp at the factory. Im new to all this victory stuff I just want to get my story right.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
380, 650, commercial, military, victory, wadcutter, walnut, webley

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Help Me identify my Grandpas gun Cav316 S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 18 04-18-2017 10:35 AM
Buying Grandpas Gun hossc S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 14 06-07-2016 02:52 PM
Found something in my grandpas garage...s&w 38 ctg Reekoil81 S&W Antiques 2 07-02-2015 09:16 AM
Grandpas Gun sfrenc01 S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 11 11-08-2014 10:06 AM
Need help with Grandpas Gun snurgy51 S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 4 03-09-2014 01:19 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:43 AM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)