Nickel K38 Target Masterpiece Rare?

[bwade]

I just picked this nickel k38 up, it was produced in 1950 and does not have the "B" under the grips, it does have a "H" and a "6". All Numbers match on this gun including the grips and it has about 95% finish. I am in it at $575 OTD. I have not ever seen a nickel one in person, are they rare?

bwade

[GF]

Is there an "N" on the cylinder?

GF

[H Richard]

That's a beauty! I have never seen a nickle K38. I'll be watching to see what the experts say. My guess is that very few K38's were nickle as it is a working target gun, and being a bullseye shooter, I don't think any bullseye shooter would want the shiny reflections of a nickle gun as a distraction when shooting.

[bwade]

Just a "K" and the serial number. No "N" or "B" anywhere on the gun.

[murphydog]

It has the black sights and case-colored hammer and trigger like a gun with an original finish. The stocks (if matching) and the trigger seem more worn than the nickel, but if it is a refinish someone did a good job. Nickel K-38s are rare, so maybe this one is worth a history letter to see if it was a special order.

[tcc]

Very common around here, I've seen 4-5 of them at WalMart recently. I'll give ya $600 for it!

BTW, that's a great looking Smith and I'm also looking forward to what the experts say.
T

[bwade]

The stocks are original, I took the side plate off and the nickel looked typical for the underside of the side plate and the insides have nickel where my other guns do. There is some corrosion under the stocks that has went through the nickel. It does appear to have a slight mark near the pinned front side that could indicate a removal of the sight for a refinish? All numbers do match including extractor star and assembly number under the side plate. The top of the gun is matte nickel too. I did put Mothers Mag Polish on the nickel to brighten it up before the pics.

[roadhog96]

U

Originally Posted by bwade

I just picked this nickle k38 up, it was produced in 1950 and does not have the "B" under the grips, it does have a "H" and a "6". All Numbers match on this gun including the grips and it has about 95% finish. I am in it at $575 OTD. I have not ever seen a nickle one in person, are they rare?

bwade

Do nickel K-38 stand up by themselves when you take a picture? I can't do that with my Blued K-38.

[bwade]

A trick I found on this Forum that I use since I do not have a Display Rod, another member advised he used a shortened Q-Tip wedged at the forcing cone. Works pretty well and I did not spend $25 for the rod, yet...

[mikepriwer]

The production of blue guns was/is greater than the production of
nickel. I don't think of them as being rare - maybe scarce, but not
rare.

Mike Priwer

[DCWilson]

I want to believe that this is an original nickel finish because that would be just too cool for words. But I'm afraid it may be a refinish because when I enlarge the heck out of the photos I think I see some surface irregularities under the nickel. If it is a refinish, it is a pretty good job, and one that observes the factory protocol on parts to leave un-nickeled.

If that gun were mine, I would have to letter it to answer the question. "I got to know."

[jimmyj]

Hi:
I had a nickeled K-38 in 1965. It was a "Re-finish".

[bwade]

Here are three better close ups, this is the only thing I can find that appears it could be under the nickel and it may be nickel flaking. The other side's engraving looks very clean. Here is the top of the cylinder and extractor star. There is oil on it with these pictures and they are pre-polish.

[Art Doc]

First of all nickel is not spelled nickle.

As far as I know nickel K38 Masterpieces were special order only. Mike is far, far more knowledgeable than I on S&Ws but his comment about them not being rare baffles me. I would think they would be extremely rare.

To me it doesn't have an obvious appearance of a refinish but in my heart I know the odds on it being original are very, very small. I hope I'm wrong in which case you stole it. But I would not touch such a piece without the letter to prove its originality. I think the nickel guns have an N stamped on the frame under the left stock and on the rear of the cylinder. Mine all do.

Good luck.

[CJS57]

If original it is not rare! It is extremely rare! (for a K-38). Nickel S&W's in other models are common.

[bwade]

Somebody somewhere should have one of these to compare to this one. Unless it is extremely rare, somebody should be able to post pictures of one on here and how it is stamped. I have seen Combat Masterpieces that were nickel and engraved, but i don't remember if they were factory or not. So far, I lean toward thinking it would be a refinish due to not ever seeing another one finished in nickel. If it is a refinish, someone spent some time with it.

How about those pictures of other nickel k38s Combats and Targets?

[29aholic]

Originally Posted by bwade

Somebody somewhere should have one of these to compare to this one. Unless it is extremely rare, somebody should be able to post pictures of one on here and how it is stamped. I have seen Combat Masterpieces that were nickel and engraved, but i don't remember if they were factory or not. So far, I lean toward thinking it would be a refinish due to not ever seeing another one finished in nickel. If it is a refinish, someone spent some time with it.

How about those pictures of other nickel k38s Combats and Targets?

This one is factory. It has an "N" with the serial number on the barrel flat.

[Art Doc]

The Combat Masterpiece was available in nickel, it's the target version that was not generally offered in nickel.

[linde]

Originally Posted by SaxonPig

The Combat Masterpiece was available in nickel, it's the target version that was not generally offered in nickel.

By "target version" I assume you are referring to the 6" Masterpiece . . . sometimes referred to as the "Target Masterpiece".

It's my understanding the 6" Masterpiece was catalogued with a blue finish. I would also believe that a nickel finish could be had on special order.

Russ

[roaddog28]

Originally Posted by DCWilson

I want to believe that this is an original nickel finish because that would be just too cool for words. But I'm afraid it may be a refinish because when I enlarge the heck out of the photos I think I see some surface irregularities under the nickel. If it is a refinish, it is a pretty good job, and one that observes the factory protocol on parts to leave un-nickeled.

If that gun were mine, I would have to letter it to answer the question. "I got to know."

I agree, spend the money and get a letter. Great looking revolver.
Howard

[handejector]

I would bet the gun is a renickel.
It looks like it to me.
An orig nickel K-38 would be extremely rare, so that makes posting pics of one unlikely. Even if someone has one, I don't see how pics would help. A nickel pre-10 will tell you as much. I see enough anomalies to make me doubt this one.
$50 will tell you for sure, or post a full set of good pics and we can probably tell you positively.

[s&wchad]

Originally Posted by bwade

Just a "K" and the serial number. No "N" or "B" anywhere on the gun.

You might also want to look under the extractor star (if you haven't already).

[bwade]

Lee suggested, so here are more pictures, all natural light with a point and shoot, but I raised the resolution to the max. Will only allow 5 pictures to upload, but I have more I will post in a minute. I did not realize nickel guns were this hard to photograph though.

[bwade]

More Pictures: I can also take it apart if you need other pictures. The screws are not all the way tight, so it is probably not dishing with view of the light shadow on the side plate.

[bwade]

A few more of the critical areas:

[Stu Honea]

If it's a factory nickel,it would be the first one I've ever seen,so I would definitely call it rare. I'd love to find one myself.

[mikepriwer]

SP:

I was speaking generically, and not specifically masterpieces. It turns
out that the masterpieces are unique, insofar as finishes available.

Forum:

I have a reasonably extensive file of the All Model Circulars. Here is
the inner page from April 1949.



You'll see the finish being offered is only blue. Its circled in red about
1/3 of the way down the page. This was also the case in Oct 1946.

I jumped ahead a couple of years, to Mar 1951, and again the only
finish being offered is blue. In this Circular, its specified for each
gun offered on the page.



So - unless the factory was allowing special orders on the Masterpiece
line, they were all blue. More than likely, if the gun being posted
was special ordered, there probably would have been some N marks
on it.

Regards, Mike Priwer

[handejector]

The pics help.
IMO, definitely NOT original.
I can't live with the buffed barrel pin. Barrels and frames are not assembled when buffed or nickeled at the factory. They are usually not pulled apart by refinishers.

[4-Screw]

Originally Posted by handejector

The pics help.
IMO, definitely NOT original.
I can't live with the buffed barrel pin. Barrels and frames are not assembled when buffed or nickeled at the factory. They are usually not pulled apart by refinishers.

I agree with Lee

[bwade]

I am inclined to agree it is probably a refinish, but an old one. The grips underneath are stained identically where the nickel is corroded on the frame. Anyway, I figure I have saved $50 by not needing a letter. Is it worth keeping as a shooter?

[Art Doc]

Unlikely you can get back what you paid. Shoot it for a few years.

[Timberpigeon]

looking at the picture of the cylinder open, it looks like it is not recessed (or maybe i'm just not seeing it correctly).

shouldn't the cylinder be recessed on this model?

[CJS57]

Originally Posted by handejector

The pics help.
IMO, definitely NOT original.
I can't live with the buffed barrel pin. Barrels and frames are not assembled when buffed or nickeled at the factory. They are usually not pulled apart by refinishers.

Please elaborate on the "buffed" barrel pin, just looks just like the original barrel pin on the factory nickel Combat Masterpiece shown?
I also would like more data on the barrel and frame being nickeled seperately then assembled. From a manufacturing standpoint that would be much more difficult because the nickel plating thickness makes plated male and female threads not match properly afterwards. I agree this gun in question is definitely re-nickeled, but I would like to see more data on real original guns and the nickel assembly process.

[lowhog]

I seen a nickel k-38 at a local gun show about two years ago.It was defintely orignial finish.If I remember correctly the price was around 575.00. It had alot of wear so I passed on it.

[Art Doc]

Timberpidgeon- The guns in 38 Special, 44 Special, etc. were not recessed. Only the 22s and the Magnums were recessed.

[bamabiker]

Originally Posted by bwade

I am inclined to agree it is probably a refinish, but an old one. The grips underneath are stained identically where the nickel is corroded on the frame. Anyway, I figure I have saved $50 by not needing a letter. Is it worth keeping as a shooter?

I'd keep it if it shoots good and I have no doubt it will. You've already got it and it is a very nice nickel job of a S&W that we never see in nickel. That's just my opinion and I'm not one of the purist collectors. If you are you probably can't live with it.
I have a M27 and a M28 that has been nickeled after the fact. I have not shot the M27 yet but the M28 shoots like a lazer and that's all I need it to do. Like your's it looks pretty good to.

[handejector]

Originally Posted by CJS57

Please elaborate on the "buffed" barrel pin, just looks just like the original barrel pin on the factory nickel Combat Masterpiece shown?
I also would like more data on the barrel and frame being nickeled seperately then assembled. From a manufacturing standpoint that would be much more difficult because the nickel plating thickness makes plated male and female threads not match properly afterwards. I agree this gun in question is definitely re-nickeled, but I would like to see more data on real original guns and the nickel assembly process.

Post #25- second pic. Note the FLAT buffed on the end of the pin. It was originally a rounded dome.

I don't know how they allow for plated threads. Perhaps they do just that- make allowance for plating thickness, or perhaps they 'clean' them after plating.

[bwade]

I agree bamabiker, but I also agree with SaxonPig that I probably won't get my money back, because I will not sell it for that amount. The gun looks great in person and is the only nickel one posted on this forum factory or not. I have several blue K38s combats and targets, narrow ribs, model 14s, all are factory orginal, but this is the only nickel one. I would sell one of my 5 screw wide ribs before I sold this one. I passed on a redone nickel model 24-3 6 1/2" a few years that should have only been blue, it went about $200 more than its blue brothers were going for with it being obviously redone. The quality of the redo is what is important in this situation, this is a quality redo. I am a purist collector too, but I will take other redos (Reg. Mags, etc) and pay good money for them if they are quality.

Buying or Passing on a piece is each person's own right, but there is not enough "experts" around to tell me something I like is something that I don't like... I will most certainly keep this piece in my collection.

[mikepriwer]

Give the All Model Circular limitations to only blue finish, they did in
fact do nickel. I completely forgot about my very early nickel K-32
masterpiece; it letters as nickel.

Mike Priwer

[mbliss57]

I just looked at the SWSC. They do reference K-38 pre model 14 in nickel as a premium in pricing so they must be around.

[feralmerril]

I bought a brand new one in the box sometime in the 1980s or so. I bought it from the "gunshop" in lancaster california when jack first owned it. I bought it from mrs first and then told her it was rare as it wasnt cataloged. In the crane you could see where 15 was overstamped with 14!