.455 Picture Thread

[jaymoore]

Originally Posted by Cyrano

No picture, but an interesting story. I was at the Albuquerque gun show a few weeks ago and an old friend told me this. He is a good machinist and has a nice shop full of tools.

Some years ago, when they were cheap, he bought an old Smith, probably a 2d Model, in 455. It was in nice shape with a good bore and he wanted to shoot it. 455 ammo was a lot scarcer then than now. He decided he'd rechamber it to 45 Colt. He had it all cinched up in the holder and was about to machine it when his daughter, who was watching said: "Daddy, what's this marking on the butt: RFC?" He looked, turned a little pale , took the cylidner out of the die, reassembled the pistol, oiled it carefully and put it away. He still has it. He says he's never heard of another revolver marked to the Royal Flying Corps, the ancestor of the RAF. The change occured in 1918.

I have an RFC marked .455. Assigned to a Reconnaisance Squadron- can't remember the unit number. But no photos yet! Unfortunately, it had the cylinder reamed to .45 Colt. But the rim was carefully counterbored for the extra thickness, so the larger O.D. of the .455 rim still seats against the rear face of the cylinder so it will fire either cartridge, no dramas!. It's also got a bit of wear, but that concerns me not at all.

Will try and do some photos this week.

[C&R Bill]

Thanks to all who posted in this thread, Maybe its heresy or its just the association with WW1, but I have always liked the 455s even more than the early 44 specials....

[Teddydog]

Originally Posted by Scary Gary

She is S/N 59040
She Is stamped Smith & Wesson .455. On the left side of her barrel.
Crossed flags on left side of frame just below the barrel pin.
Left side, top right corner of frame, just under the top of her 1950's diamond grips is stamped an upward pointing arrow, under that a crown, under that is 44, under that is E, and under that is what looks like II.
All these are stacked on top of each other.
On the right side of her frame, lower right corner is stamped 4MD with the number 13 under that.
And on the right side of her frame just under her S&W Trade Mark is stamped the number 2280 .
Anything and everything you can tell me will be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.

I missed this thread the first time around. I also have a .455 with "4MD" on the right side of the frame, but with 24 under it rather than 13. Have we had any definitive answer about what this means? I always thougth it was/is Australian. My SN is 55532.



Rob

[jaymoore]

Some photos:









But unlike the RFC marked revolver first mentioned above, this one is now both .45 Colt and .455 Due to careful rechambering. Oh, well...

[Hondo44]

Well that is one nice ole war horse! And is certainly the very classiest way to convert one in my opinion; a dual cartridge cylinder and a safe shooter in either mode.

[Texas Star]

Originally Posted by Teddydog

I missed this thread the first time around. I also have a .455 with "4MD" on the right side of the frame, but with 24 under it rather than 13. Have we had any definitive answer about what this means? I always thougth it was/is Australian. My SN is 55532.



Rob

4th Military District, Victoria state, Australia. Dunno about the 24, maybe a unit there. The number under the S&W logo is probably a rack or inventory number. This was likely an "issue" gun, not sold to an officer "out of Stores."

S&W Aussie posted the info about Victoria and the MD there. He lives in Brisbane. (Queensland)

He added that until 1901, Australia wasn't formally a country, but a collection of colonies. I didn't know that, nor will your waitress at the Outback Steakhouse...

A No. 2 lead pencil may remove those rust marks on the trigger.

[H4831]

The number II in the picture is not mine, but I took the pictures and examined it.
The barel is marked exactly like shown in my title.
S/N is 3837X.
There has been no altering of the original calibre. What would be a ball park estimate of value for this gun?
This is just for interests sake, because I have no interest in the gun.

[etexas]

Converted to .45 with clips. Serial 21893.

[dnonac]

Had this posted on another thread and at the suggestion of one of the members, moved it here. Great thread!

This is my first 455 and this one has not been converted and remains in the original caliber. All numbers match.

Serial is 64881. Maybe 1916-1917?
Has 6 1/2" barrel and a fair amount of original bluing as well. Stocks are in decent shape and number to the gun via pencil on the right grip. Internals are shiny clean......after an hour or so of de-gunking last night.

One interesting feature is the tiny, threaded trigger stop inside the trigger guard and visible in the first 3 pics (and last pic). Don't know who added it but I haven't seen another like it.

I've read several previous posts about these interesting old guns and my curiosity is peaked. The only mark I see that I believe indicates some English usage is the "Crown over 30" on the butt. No arrows, proof marks etc can be found anywhere.

This gun was recovered in a house being demolished several years ago and when found it was loaded with what I presume might be original ammo (I have those 6 rounds as well).

I presume that some of these guns never got issued to the military; hence the lack of military markings on this one. But....I've presumed before and been dead wrong.
Look forward to hearing from some of you guys that know about these.
Craig
SWCA 2380

[Mexican Kerry]

I've got two less-than-mint .455 pistols now. I used to have a beautiful nickel Webley WG, but sold it to my dad when an old S70 Gold Cup came along. These are far from the condition of previous posters' examples, but they still have a special place in my modest collection.

Hope I don't get lynched for posting a picture of a non-Smith!

[Muley Gil]

"Hope I don't get lynched for posting a picture of a non-Smith!"

Some of us like Colts......and Rugers too!!

[Aussie Collector]

I wanted to post a picture of my .455 MK II HE 2nd Model and felt if best go on this post rather than start another.
It has some of the marking as seen on previous posts.
This one has G7 where the others have 44; Broad arrow, crown, G7, E, II.
It doesn’t have .455 stamped anywhere and the barrel markings are of the 1st model?
Granted this an early gun and must have been stamped before S&W changed the patent date stamping?
Was this common?
Cheers.

[mkk41]

Originally Posted by Muley Gil

"Hope I don't get lynched for posting a picture of a non-Smith!"

Some of us like Colts......and Rugers too!!

Might as well stip the pot some more and show my 1918-vintage Colt New Service in .455 Eley , aka .455 Colt. It must have been a bit rusty at one time show some deep pitting and a desperate attempt at refinishing. But the bore and action are still quite good. Still shows some British and Canadian marks. Paid $200 with those grips on it!



After learning the difference between .455 Eley and .455 Webley ,(I have a Webley that's been shaved for .45 ACP with clips) and having zero luck finding ammo , I was darn close to reaming the chambers for .45 Long Colt. Then I found these and a few more boxes at a flea market.

[Aussie Collector]

A few more non S&W .455s with their baby brother.

[mkk41]

Love that bayonet!

[Goony]

Outstanding first post. Your mastery of English is better than many for whom it is their native language!

I don't have the answers to your questions, but I'm certain somebody will come along who can authoritatively address them.

[Aussie Collector]

Originally Posted by mkk41

Love that bayonet!

Thanks mkk41. These bayonets were originally made by WW Greener by modifying a Gras bayonet. Called the “Pritchard bayonet” developed by Captain A Pritchard for the Webley MK VI revolver.
Cheers.

[Hondo44]

Originally Posted by Empereur

Hello all,

Is there anyone who knows what the rest stands for?

If I understand it correctly, these are all WWII markings. Is there any way to find out if it was used in WWI as well (as that was the primary reason for it being made)?

Last but not least, some of you have got a letter of S&W stating when the gun was shipped. What did you do to receive such a letter, simply write them a letter?
Thanks in advance,

Your gun is clearly a 455 Hand Ejector, 2nd Model.
There are several past threads discussing all of those markings here:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/searchr...markings&sa=Go

Request a letter from Smith and Wesson, by writing to them, Attn: Roy Jinks.

[AlanDavid]

Just to clarify.
The crown with 30 under it, is regarded as a Canadian inspection mark.
Crossed pennants is a British military proof mark. Crossed pennants with DCP, is a Canadian (usually) military proof mark = Dominion of Canada Proof.
A broad arrow in a C is a Canadian ownership mark.
Opposing broad arrows is a 'sold out of service' mark.

Regards
AlanD
Sydney

[Gun Nut #13]

Re: Post #66.

Hello Empereur,

I found your post while researching my own 2nd model HE pistol. I have one that's very nearly a twin to your's! The major difference is that mine is marked 2 DS CASF 14 on the back strap. In addition, it is marked B99 on the bottom of the grip instead of a crown over 30. Also mine has exactly the same markings on the LH side behind the cylinder release button but it also has a second set of stamps just to the left. The second set is a symbol over B 2 and that over B. The symbol is very strange. It looks like an Omega that was over stamped with a backwards L.

I've been trying to find out what 2 DS CASF 14 stands for and I've posted that question on a Canadian Soldiers website. I thought it it stood for "Canadian Army Special Forces" (see <http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/history/koreawar/valour/special>) and I've found that definition in a number of places including websites of standard abbreviations used in the Canadian Army. But now I've learned that it also stands for "Canadian Active Service Forces". The Canadiansoldiers.com website even lists both definitions. <http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/organization/fieldforces/canadianactiveserviceforce.htm> and <http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/organization/fieldforces/canadianarmyspecialforce.htm> (Sorry for the listing the links as text but the Link icon isn't working for me.)

One of the other interesting things that I found was that the term Canadian Active Service Force was only used from 1939 to 1940! Basically it was the unit that was created when the militia was activated in 1939 but before the Canadian Army was created in 1940. The description below is from Wikipedia:

"In 1939, the Canadian Active Service Force (CASF) was mobilized; similar to the CEF, this was a mobilization of prewar PF and NPAM units, who retained their traditional titles. In 1940, the land forces of Canada were retitled. The CASF became the Canadian Army (Overseas), the Permanent Force became the Canadian Army (Active) and the NPAM became the Canadian Army (Reserve)."

As mentioned above, at various times CASF stood for Canadian Army Special Forces. The first link above mentions one of the SF units. That unit was involved in one of the pivital battles during the Korean War and there was a book written about them and the battle. Here is a link to that book <http://www.amazon.ca/Triumph-Kapyong-Canadas-Pivotal-Battle/dp/1554888727>. I believe that the Canadian units that fought at Dieppe in 1942 were also labeled as "Canadian Army Special Forces".

Considering the fact that the Canadian Army used the S&W 2nd model HE from 1915 until 1951, I can't rule out either definition of CASF based on the date of usage.

Do you mind posting the serial number of your revolver? Mine is 24851. I'd like to see if they're close together in SN range. Also does your's have the caliber stamped on the barrel? Mine does not. It's only marked "Smith & Wesson" and that marking is much further to the rear than the ones that are marked with the caliber. it also appears to be hand stamped on mine as the first letters are much deeper than the last one. I have heard of one other of this model (not Canadian) that did not have the caliber marked so it's not unheard of. My guess is that these are early production and the caliber stamping was started later.

I will get pictures and post when I can. I have a buddy that is a professional photographer and he can take some good pictures but will probably take a couple of weeks.



PS.

My revolver does not have the sold out of service stamp. Also the broad Arrow mark without the C is a British Military Ownership stamp. The fact that the stamps on the left side of the gun includes just the BroadArrow stamp indicates that these were owned by the British government at one time. I'm guessing, but I think that these were sold to the British government and that they transferred them to the Canadians. The S&W records of the delivery of the 2nd model HE pistols state that they were ultimately send to the Canadians but aren't exactly clear about if they were transferred to the British first. BTW I've been told that S&W actually send the pistols to Remington/Peters Co in Connecticut. They were the purchasing agents for the British/Canadians. RP then reshipped them.

Alan said: " A broad arrow in a C is a Canadian ownership mark. "

Actually Broad Arrow C is a Canadian military ownership mark.

[AlanDavid]

"Alan said: " A broad arrow in a C is a Canadian ownership mark. "

Actually Broad Arrow C is a Canadian military ownership mark."

Just to clarify; the broad arrow signifies government ownership, it may be applied to clothing worn by prisoners, bricks and other stores used by government departments including the military. The revolver with a broad arrow, British , Canadian, South African etc , is not owned by the military, it is property of the respective government.

Regards

AlanD
Sydney

[ncognet0]

Im a newby to the board not a collector just like guns, anyways heres one I picked up at an estate sale don't know much about these.

[glowe]

Welcome to the Forum. You have a nice 2nd Model there, but the walnut stocks are not original. You will find pictures of original stocks posted here and they all had the large gold medallions in the top of the stocks. These come up for sale and you can search ebay and Gunbroker for a set N frame grips. With the crown over 30, I think that indicates Canadian issue. Is there a "C" stamped anywhere? Is the 455 barrel stamping unchanged?

Check out this thread and you can find more information about 455s.

Long barrel 1914 S&W .455 revolver

[Muley Gil]

Welcome to the Forum, ncognet0.

Nice old Smith there. The grip are from a later era, but are better for shooting IMHO.

Is it still a .455 or has it been rechambered to .45 Colt? Can you post picture of the marking on the left side of the barrel?

[ncognet0]

I will try to get a good sharp pic after while, but the barrel says:

bhp .455 .760 6 tons per (then there is a small square)

[Charlie Foxtrott]

Where a bullet mold can be found to make the .455 bullet that these guns like. I have two new Service revolvers chambered in .455 Eley. I have been shooting the 262 grain Webley mk 2 that Fiochi sells out of my guns to good effect. So I have plenty of brass. I would like to be able to roll my own ammo for these great guns. I will try to get a picture of them up.

[mkk41]

Originally Posted by Charlie Foxtrott

Where a bullet mold can be found to make the .455 bullet that these guns like. I have two new Service revolvers chambered in .455 Eley. I have been shooting the 262 grain Webley mk 2 that Fiochi sells out of my guns to good effect. So I have plenty of brass. I would like to be able to roll my own ammo for these great guns. I will try to get a picture of them up.

RCBS 1-Cavity Bullet Mold 45-265-RN-HB 455 Webley (455 Diameter) 265

[deadin]

RCBS makes a Hollow Base mould that duplicates the .455Mk II 265gr. bullet. It's a little pricey at around $120.00. Midway has them listed.
Another choice would be to buy the same bullets from Buffalo Arms at around $33.00 per 50. (Just how much you plan on shooting would be the decision maker..) They are back ordered right now and expect to restock in April.

[Charlie Foxtrott]

I knew that I would get the straight skinny here. Thanks very much for the comeback on this people.

[ncognet0]

I just noticed that mine has a sereal number on the cylinder and the body both match. I think thats a good thing.

[W.C. Morton]

Looking for a replacement .455 cylinder for my Mk.II revolver. Any ideas, or cylinders, out there?

Bill

[Muley Gil]

Welcome to the Forum.

You may want to post in the Classifieds section of the Forum. Start your own thread.

[W.C. Morton]

Thank you. I will.

[Just a shooter]

Hi I have just received a .455 S&W 606##. Pistol has been kept in a family since WW1. has matching serial number on cylinder and butt of frame. Stamped on barrel is Smith & Wesson .455 and also Pat dates on the top of barrel. Also has all the British markings. Missing lanyard ring but can get one. Stamped on back strap is 6.16 over 8RS.RFS over 45 .Any help on history would be gratefully appreciated .

[mrcvs]

Here's one that started out as a .455 but now is a .45 Colt.

[steelslaver]

Well here is mine. It has been reworked to 45 colt by recessed case head method. Looks pretty good for 100 years. Has and the British markings all over it.



If the Brits had spent as much time making guns as they did little metal stamps and whacking them all over any gun they came close to they would have been very well armed in the first place. They did love them stamps.

[The Gila Bender]

A .455 1st Model triple lock wearing Grashorns and a decent nickel refinish. Serial 12742, built in 1914.
I believe this is one of the British contract "leftovers" that shipped to Shapleigh Hardware St. Louis in December 1917.

It's nice to see these old .455's in a revived thread.

[Toyman]

This is a 2nd model shipped in 1916 to Shapleigh Hardware in St. Louis still in 455 caliber.

[Hondo44]

Originally Posted by mrcvs

Here's one that started out as a .455 but now is a .45 Colt.

I notice it's stamped 45 AR; do they also fit?

[Hondo44]

Originally Posted by Just a shooter

Hi I have just received a .455 S&W 606##. Pistol has been kept in a family since WW1. has matching serial number on cylinder and butt of frame. Stamped on barrel is Smith & Wesson .455 and also Pat dates on the top of barrel. Also has all the British markings. Missing lanyard ring but can get one. Stamped on back strap is 6.16 over 8RS.RFS over 45 .Any help on history would be gratefully appreciated .

Welcome to the forum!

Check these links for the meaning of the stampings:

Triple-Lock Rescue

S&W .44 Hand Ejector 1st Model #15

Triple Lock WWI British Markings

2nd model or MKII ?

http://smith-wessonforum.com/searchr...markings&sa=Go

S&W Model 1917 Stamped "Not English Made"

455 HE markings

[Just a shooter]

Thanks for the info LINKS.

[Toyman]

Since we are discussing 455 model here is rather unique Colt New Service Target shipped in 1915 to Winnipeg, Canada. Colt used Medford rifling developed by the Brtis to lessen fouling from black powder. About 950 produced

[mrcvs]

Originally Posted by Hondo44

I notice it's stamped 45 AR; do they also fit?

Presumably so, but I do not know for sure.

[Muley Gil]

Originally Posted by mrcvs

Presumably so, but I do not know for sure.

IMHO, the rear of the cylinder does't appear to be cut enough to allow .45 Auto Rim/.45 ACO in clips to fit.

[PJGP]

Originally Posted by Just a shooter

Stamped on back strap is 6.16 over 8RS.RFS over 45 .Any help on history would be gratefully appreciated .

6.16 is June 1916, the date on which the revolver was issued to the unit. 45 will be the rack number of the revolver in the unit. The question is: what was the unit?

8RS could well be the 8th Battalion of The Royal Scots (Lothian Regiment), but RFS has me beaten.

Peter

[Hondo44]

Originally Posted by Muley Gil

IMHO, the rear of the cylinder does't appear to be cut enough to allow .45 Auto Rim/.45 ACO in clips to fit.

I agree, that I believe is why the barrel is just marked 45 AR. The chambers are probably just recessed for the AR. Recessed chambers w/o shaving the cyl would not allow ACP in clips to fit. And w/o clips in 455 chambers or chambers reamed for 45 Colt, ACP will fall into the chamber too far.


Photo by Lee Jarrett

When recessed for 45 AR, the recess need to be .045" deep, and of course not need reaming of the chambers. For 45 Colt, chambers only need to be recessed .015" and of course reamed for 45 Colt. If recessed .045" for AR, AND reamed for 45 Colt, it can shoot both. And still shoot .455 because of it's larger diameter rim!

[AlanDavid]

Originally Posted by Just a shooter

Hi I have just received a .455 S&W 606##. Pistol has been kept in a family since WW1. has matching serial number on cylinder and butt of frame. Stamped on barrel is Smith & Wesson .455 and also Pat dates on the top of barrel. Also has all the British markings. Missing lanyard ring but can get one. Stamped on back strap is 6.16 over 8RS.RFS over 45 .Any help on history would be gratefully appreciated .

You could try posting these markings on the Great War Forum under Arms and Paraphernalia. If anyone will know the meaning of these stamping's it will be someone on that forum.

Regards

AlanD
Sydney

[frankynohankypanky]

Just a Shooter, I have one marked; 6.16 over 8RS.RFC over 20.

I'm of the opinion that 6.16 would be date into store. 8RS I believe refers to 8 Reserve Squadron, Royal Flying Corps located at Netheravon, Wiltshire where pilot training was conducted. The last number would be a rack number. Serial no. of mine is 47474.

[bracebeemer]

I'm late to the party but I can show my .455 Mark II shipped to Ottawa,Ontario July 1916. It's still in .455 cal.and has an interesting serial number 70000. "I Miller" is scratched on the bottom of the grips. I have not done any research on this gentleman yet.
Bill

[H Richard]

I acquired this one from a Cabellas in Denver area a couple years ago. It was in the fine gun room, and in the case something didn't look right. When they took it out i noticed it had been sleeved for an "unknown" caliber, and the tag was marked "No Caliber shown". The only external difference was the front sight has been lowered to correct POI with the lower powered round. I was impressed by whoever did the work, as the finish is still all original.









This one dated to Nov 1915.