On Second Model Hand Ejectors, I gather that a number were made in .45 Colt and shipped sans caliber markings. That seems unwise of the company. Why?

And how were their .44-40 guns marked? They were listed as availablle, and I'm guessing that some were made.

Hi
I have 4 2nd model 44/40 hand ejectors and they are marked on the barrel with the caliber.
the reason the 45 colt that were made were not marked is because they were serial numbered in the 455 series of numbers not the 2nd model series of numbers.

I have never seen a 45 colt numbered in the 2nd model series.
Jim Fisher

Serial numbers I have.
2nd model 455 2nd model 45 Colt
44/40 4410x
3015x 4674x
3015x
3376x
1523x
I hope this help clear up the marking Issue.
Jim Fisher

Jim-

Actually, no. My question was why weren't the .45's marked with the proper caliber, regardless of whether .455 guns were also being made? In fact, the .455's being made cried out even more for the right caliber to be indicated.

And for the .44, I wonder if they are marked for .44 WCF, .44/40, or just as .44 Caliber. That would confuse the owner as to whether he had a .44 WCF or .44 Special.

I hope that clarifies the question. Sorry if I wasn't clear. Thanks for helping.

Hi
All the 2nd model 44/40 are marked on the right side of the Barrel
with 44/40 Cgt
The Triple locks in 44/40 some were marked and some did not have any Cal marking on them

I have both a original 45 colt triple lock and it is not marked.
I also have 3 44/40 triple locks and only one of them is marked
on the left side of the barrel with 44 Winchester cgt.
Jim Fisher
I hope this helps

Yes, thanks. It just baffles me that they didn't mark all calibers, but I guess the lawyers weren't active then.

As a customer, it'd totally anger me to find an unmarked gun and have to guess at the ammo.

"As a customer, it'd totally anger me to find an unmarked gun and have to guess at the ammo."

Why? A look at the chamber of a .44-40 revolver and the chamber of a .45 Colt revolver shows the difference pretty easily. When these two cartridges were introduced, and through their early history, they were the only big bore of that basic size around. The .44 Russian and Special cartridges are very loose in those chambers and the .38-40 bullet is smaller than either.

__________________
John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Muley-

Do you really feel that a buyer ought to have to do that trial & error fit and hope to find a round that fits right?

Then factor in the jerks that might fire the wrong ammo.

I'm not saying that an enthusiast who really wanted the gun couldn't do detective work like you suggest and guess the right caliber. I just think it's ridiculous to ask that of most handgun buyers in that day.

My opinion is that it was arrogant and careless of S&W not to mark their guns properly. If somone wants to play devil's advocate for the company, that's your privilege.

Col. Chas. Askins told me that the uppity attitude of S&W sales reps had a lot to do with him buying Colts for the USBP, because the Colt men were more affable, although Askins knew that he'd have to turn the barrels of most of those Colts to get the sights aligned!

Not marking caliber on guns seems to me to be a reflection of that attitude, which I gather made many enemies for S&W over a span of several decades. The guns were good; management attitudes were sometimes elitist.

Perhaps management felt that marking the boxes was enough, but once a gun gets separated from that box... Maybe they didn't want to help the sales of used guns.

There were no Nanny states back then. Buyers took responsibility for what they bought and what they did. Gun dealers knew their trade. The lack of a marking was a tip off to "Use your head". Something almost unheard of these days.

__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819

I would guess the box would have noted the caliber, and that may have sufficed at that time. Jim, do you have the original boxes for the unusual calibers to confirm this?

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Texas Star,I read somewhere back in the pre-war years S&W was reluctant to put there rivals name on the barrel. COLT was a Four letter dirty word back then.Mike

hi
I do not have boxes for these, but I have seen some boxes that have
calibers stamped inside the box and some on the ends. with a rubber stamp in black block letters.
most of these caliber we are are taking about were limited numbers
so smith & wesson would have used boxes that they had on hand.
jim fisher

Yes, I know, but they could have used .45 LC, for instance. Colt, in turn, had a flat point put on the .38 Special and called it the .38 Colt Special, to avoid the S&W association. I think Colt marked its .44 Special guns without credit to S&W.

They didn't have one for the 44 S&W Spl so you're right, they only marked their guns w/o the S&W.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

A lot of the Colts were marked .44 Russian & Special.............

__________________
dd884
JMHO-YMMV

True, but Colt DID MARK them!

Probably has something to do with Smith & Wesson not wanting to put 45 Colt on their guns!

The caliber marking I've seen for most Colts in .44 Special look like this (click the picture for a larger version). It says

NEW SERVICE
RUSSIAN AND
S&W SPECIAL
44

(Sorry, I can't get the spacing to come out correct.)

2nd model 44-40 marking

Charlie

Attached Images

DSC02550.jpg (67.9 KB, 38 views)

Until the advent of the 25-3 there was no regular production of 45 colt guns by S&W. Were they not just special order items and those few and far between? Walking into a gun shop and finding one has never been very likely. I have been in a lot of gun shops and looked at a lot of S&W revolvers and have never seen a factory pre model 45 colt and doubt many have. The very few owned by members here were probably not found in gun shops. Heck even the regular production model marked 25 and 625 guns in 45 colt are hard to find.

In other words if you got your hands on one you knew what you were getting your hands on.

My first Triple Lock had no caliber markings. I called Roy and asked what cal. it might be. Roy told me to start feeding various cartridges into the the cyl.until one fit. I did so and 44/40 fit. Later a factory letter comfirmed!!
As for pre-model 45Colts, I have four of them. Three 1950's and one 1955. They are around!

I can attest from personal experience that both .38-40 and .44-40 cartridges will chamber and fire in a .45 Colt revolver. I can understand why marking the caliber on the barrel is a good idea.

That's awesome!

As far as I know all 44 Spl TLs were marked; two different markings.

Many of the TL 455 Mk IIs were not marked, albeit the English stamps usually give them away. I can't think of a better one to find unmarked than a 44-40!

__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819