Hi
How about a thread for King Guns. I will start it off with 3 of mine. There are 3 1905 guns one 6 inch and two 5 inch. The 6 inch gun has the King rear with white outline, and the Red Ramp front with the mirror. The two 5 inch guns are 30's guns and are Equipped the same, except one has the Ivory front and one has the red front. The rear sights have the king white outline blade in the Smith and Wesson factory rear sight.
Jim Fisher

Here is a 1905 Target with a King front sight and as I recall a rear King sight blade.




A 38/44 Outdoorsman with a King blade



Another style King blade, don't recall which gun this is on.

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John. SWCA #1586

Not to hi-jack a thread. LOL

But,......I've been looking..... for years..... for a front sight blade for a King sight to restore my Father's pre War (WWII) Colt New Service in .357 mag. to it's origional condition. He told me the Colt with the trip to Kings was still cheaper in 1939, than a Smith .357 (Reg Mag. at $62)

I'm looking for a blade for a King Red ramp w/ mirror; the blade had a small square red plastic insert....... like on bmg60's guns above.

Any help in my search would be welcome.......send me a PM .... Thanks

I now return you to your regular programming!

Not a S&W, but here is my Colt Officers King Super Target. The smoothest double action trigger pull I've ever felt.

Here are a couple of full-King-rib guns. One is a 44, and the other is
a 38/44.



I'll try to find a better full-view picture of these.

Mike Priwer

K22/40 with Kings enhancements


1917 Target



Triplelock Target with Kings enhancements it was the 1st time I had ever seen a Kings Trigger Shoe

duhhhhh,
I did not comprehend what I was reading.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Hi
lee here is a close up of the sights on the 5 inch guns. they are S&W 2 screw rear sights from the 30,s unless king made sights that look like S&W. Lee I added a picture of a S&W rear sight looks just like the ones on the two guns. the sight that I added has a serial number on it.
Jim

Hi
Here is another this one has been used but its still original blue. A scarce gun in 44/40 cal Triple Lock. Shipped in 1910 4 digit, with the full King Target.
jim

Jim,
Note the "flat" on top of your frame.

Look at how this factory target is all one radius-




I think that flat is an M&P frame.

I have seen early King sights (marked) that had two tiny screws for windage like S&W sights. As I recall though, they were grooved on the rear face below the blade.
Factory sights are not grooved here-

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

lee
I send you a pm with my Idea's. the sights on the 5 inch is the same as yours pictures it has no flat on the rear. the sights are S&W how king got them is the issue.
Jim

Jim,
What I mean is the King sight may be grooved on the rear, right above the hammer.
The flat I refer to is the top of the frame on the 5".

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

A great idea for a thread. Jim, thanks for starting this off.

Here are a couple. The first one is a Postwar transitional .38/44 Outdoorsman with a red bead front sight on a King reflector base. The rear sight has a King U-notch white outline insert.








And here is an unusual combination of large King sight on a small frame revolver -- another King reflector mounted on a prewar .22/32 Kit Gun.

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David Wilson

here is a picture of the kings sight on the T-lock

Reg.# 1105. King reflector front sight with red insert, King #112 rear sight, King double cockeyed hammer, King short action, trigger shoe.

Bob

I have an N frame pre war target with S&W rear sight with the two elevation screws that has the grooves above the hammer behind the blade and is unmodified. I also have a '2 screw' pre war factory rear sight only with the serial number 9639 stamped on the under side. It's an N frame length with grooves above the hammer behind the blade.

I have to look but I think I or my son may have another pre war target with grooved rear sight.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Jim

[QUOTE=Hondo44;136458336]I have an N frame pre war target with S&W rear sight with the two elevation screws that has the grooves above the hammer

I checked all my K frame Targets the rear of the sight is smooth.
I think it is only the N frame that has the grooves.
jim

[QUOTE=bmg60;136458351]Jim

Yes, I agree and I believe it coincides with the introduction of the RMs since most or all of those that I've seen have the grooved rear sight. But then again the sight I have off the gun is only a 4 digit # which has to be an early N frame unless it's not a complete #. However there's lotsa room for the entire # on the underside of the sight and I think I remember complete serial #'s on the rear sights.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Here is a couple pictures of a 2" .38 M&P with a full king rib:





And here is a 5" .38 M&P, in same configuration:





Mike Priwer

Here is my one and only, a pre-war 38. My dream is to find an N-frame being sold by someone stuck in the old days when a King conversion was worth less than an unmodified gun.

Bob #946

Bob B.

Really beautiful grips on that engraved RM - any idea who did the grips and the carving?

Bob

K-22 Outdoorsman with Super Target conversion with cockeyed hammer:






Couple of RM's with King Sights:









The last one was shipped from the factory to King and also sports a King cockeyed hammer.

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Richard
Engraved S&W fan

Here's my King's Colt, unfired (Somebody bought it from King's in 1953 and forgot about it):

Attached Images

Colt-King-Super-Target_38_1953_lt.jpg (69.0 KB, 311 views)

[QUOTE=pokute;(Somebody bought it from King's in 1953 and forgot about it):[/QUOTE]

I hate it when I do that. Makes you feel so silly when you discover them lying on the bottom of the safe!

Bob

The thing is, I bought it to SHOOT it, but all you collector types have made me feel guilty about doing it. When I finally track down the top-break I'm looking for, I'm gonna shoot the hell outta it just to P-O all of you.

Bob R.,

Sorry to be so slow in answering. I overlooked your question.

No, unfortunately, I haven't been able to trace the embellishments. The gun was shipped to Binghamton NY in 1936.

During that period Roy C. McHenry was practicing law in Binghamton following his FBI career. He was also a long time officer in the Binghamton Rifle Club and the formation of the Interstate Revolver League. Of course, shortly thereafter McHenry and Walter Roper wrote their book on Smith & Wesson Hand Guns.

There was no shortage of other very wealthy individuals who might have commissioned the work. In that period Thomas Watson began IBM there; Edwin Link started Link Aviation to make his flight simulators there; Henry Endicott and George Johnson started the Endicott-Johnson Shoe Corporation there with 20,000 employees and produced 52 million pairs of shoes annually. That is to say nothing of the frequent use of Binghamton as a retreat site for the New York Cosa Nostra.

So there are lots of possibilities but all attempts to attribute it to some previous owner have met blank walls.

Bob

Here are a couple that really work well with the King sights:
A 38/44 King Super Target and a Registered Magnum.
Don

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OGCA Life
NRA Life

aNyboDDi no hOo mmmmmmaks a drOOlpruf kEboRRRddd?

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Even older, even crankier....

No one does. I googled. Best solution is a surgical mask.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Here is my very early K22 Outdoorsman:

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Miss My Buddy crsides!!

Here's a less than pristine K-22 Outdoorsman, shipped in mid-1934, that has been fitted with a King reflector front sight (which I believe is period correct) and what looks to be an aftermarket hammer. The rear sight and trigger both appear to be original.

Edit: I'm almost ashamed to post these photos, as everybody else's examples in this thread are so nice, while this one is well used and pretty much a beater in comparison.

Attached Images

	front sight.jpg (73.3 KB, 118 views)
	hammer.jpg (99.5 KB, 133 views)

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

I'll play, Jim...

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Pace

That Pre-Vic conversion has got to be the coolest thing I have seen in days! A prewar Combat Masterpiece prototype...

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David Wilson

Even though it's not marked as such (at least that I can see), is it possible that hammer on my gun is a King? (Post #31)

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

Goony,

Someone with a King hammer will have to let us both know if they were stamped King. But the only other custom hammers I know of that are exact copies of the King right, left and double cockeyed hammer are the Microsight, and they are stamped Micro on the left side. So if yours is not stamped Micro I'm inclined to think it's a King pending verification of their marking.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Jim, of course mine doesn't have a hammer nose, but the style of the spur looks to my eye to be identical. It is definitely not marked with any brand name, just "REG. U.S. PAT.OFF." as can be seen in my photo.

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

Goony and Hondo,

You might find this interesting. In 1955 King Gun Sight Company sued Micro Sights in Federal Court for patent infringement.

Bob

King Gun Sight Company, Inc., a Corporation, Appellant, v. Micro Sight Company, Inc., a Corporation, John v. Mckenna, Rene Goudy, Eugene F. Padel, George K. Thannisch, and Marion Galloway, Appellees., 218 F.2d 825 (9th Cir. 1955) - Federal Circuits -

The hammer in question looks like an original S&W factory one of that period.

Regards,

Tam 3

Tam 3,
But S&W had no wide spur hammers pre war, in fact not until the early '50s. And they never had the two hashmarks in front of the spur checkering which are indicative of the King and Micro design.

Goony,
In reviewing pace40's photos I now see that his hammer closeup does show the King Patent stamping. And in reviewing your hammer spur photo I noticed it doesn't have the 'teardrop' shape on the spur tip like the King and Micro. But neither do the hammers on pace40's K22 Outdorsman and 38 M&P Super King Target conversions, and it seems highly unlikely that they would have some other smith's custom made wide spur hammers. They don't appear to be stamped King either.

As bettis1 has documented, there was quite a 'brewhaha' over Micro's copy of the King hammer.
So we may be looking at different vintages of King's hammer modification and after the court case King may have no longer stamped them as patented since the patent protection was nill; all my speculation of course. But I think you have a King hammer based on the above observations.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Three digit Triple Lock with King sights and rib, and Roper target grips.

Attached Images

King TL.jpg (102.1 KB, 210 views)

Not a Smith obviously, but certainly a King. Here is the seldom seen King Triple Bead front sight and King Quad rear sight factory supplied on a Remington Model 25 in .32-20. The front sight has a small and medium size brass bead and a medium size ivory bead. The elevator on the rear sight doubles as a slotted screwdriver for changing the leaf position. The evelator is also graduated from 100 to 400+ yds. The leaf has 4 different types of notches.





Sorry, I don't own any King conversion Smiths.

These grips look like Sandersons though its hard to tel from the one upside down pic, Lol! Awesome revolver.

Yeah Dad, my Triple Lock .44 6 1/2 inch target has the grooves on the rear sight too. I think we checked and it also numbers to the gun. My cut up second model .455 had the rear sight with grooves too.
Matt

Do the reflectors actually help or do they cause glare on the front sight?

They actually help IMO. The refelctor illuminates the front bead at a 45 degree angle so there's no glare when lining up the sights. One would only see reflected glare if looking at the bead from a 45 degree angle above it.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Obviously, some of the more elaborate and fancier conversions pictured here, especially in almost new condition as many seem to be, are going to be desirable items and therefore pretty pricey. My question is for the more ordinary gun, does the period correct substitution of King sights, hammer, et cetera, in general enhance or detract from its value (take that term as being in either the collectible or monetary sense)? Any concensus on this, or is it something of a contentious issue?

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

The 1st time I posted a 38 M&P Super Target on the Forum about 6-7 years ago I was somewhat surprised with how many negative comments were posted "its not Factory so it is not worth as much as if it were original"

It seems over the past 5 years King has become a collectible variation and members have changed their minds or maybe the overall membership has become more open minded. I think they are just plain Cool!!!!

Dan

Goony,

In my opinion this is one of the exceptions to the generally held belief that "if not factory, then not as valuable". I would place a premium on guns that were originally purchased by obviously knowledgeable and discerning individuals who went the extra mile to have these guns "enhanced" with the kind of features that King offered. The King products were high quality and the fit and finish is certainly on par with the S&W standards. Although I do not own one, I am sure these guns are a joy to handle and shoot. Not to mention, these guns just look cool. All this adds value.

If it hasn't happened already, I would guess that this specialized area of collecting is going to see a quicker appreciation than your run of the mill production guns. Threads like this get more people on board with these neatly outfitted gems.

Hondo, when you're right, you're right.
Regarding the effect of the King reflector, I refer to it as depression era fiber optics.

Regards,

Tam 3