I rarely consider myself so bold to disagree with Bettis1 but ipsnay on the round-butting, hammer bobbing, and other "hatchet murdering" of this old warrior. That's an N-frame and it deserves better treatment than that! Those configurations are best reserved for the little "ladies' guns." (I- and J-frames )

How much is that in metric?

Hmm, your all giving me ideas for grandpas ol 17.

It has no sentimental and I doubt much, if any, collector value. The bore is pitted from old ammo and finish is even patina.

What's a source for a new barrel? Although I have a pretty good home shop, sounds like barrel replacement is beyond my tool/skill set.

Is it even worth it to have a gunsnith do the job, or just save my pennies for a 625?

Watch those comments about "ladies' guns" or I'll hit you with my purse!

Those big blasters were made to be tools and if you make your particular example fit your hand and do the job better, then more power to you!. I wouldn't buy a pristine example to perform such surgery, but a well used, already altered specimen is fair game. JMHO, YMMV.

As for barrel dimensions, AFAIK they are identical. I am sure that the threads are the same because I used one of the INA's to replace a bulged barrel on a friend's military 1917. BTW, that one also got a set of post-War (II) adjustable sights added along with custom grips and a nice reblue. It's a TOOL, folks. It just isn't a cute tool like an I-frame!

Froggie

I'm sure the INA barrels were intended as replacements for damaged Brazilian M1917s. As so often has been reported, the Brazilians subjected their S&Ws to extremely harsh use and little if any cleaning or other maintenance. So it is not difficult to believe that they required replacement barrels. Perhaps they thought they could make them locally for less than S&W was asking for same.

So of course the barrel should have the proper dimensions and especially the proper threads to fit an M1917.

I usually advise against making major mods to any gun. But in this case, you sure can't say you might hurt the collector value! Still, if it was me, I would be careful about putting $700 into a $400 gun. Just sayin'.

__________________
You're shy a few manners.

Bill,

If you're thinking of getting the barrel for originality, frankly I'd rather have the short barrel that's in the gun with Smith & Wesson on it rather than a long barrel with INA on it. Just MHO and preference.

__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819

Bill, if the gathering consensus is correct and the stags are real, I would be tempted to take those nice stags and put them on that gorgeous Commercial Model. Then I would experiment with the rest of the gun with some random set of grips on it and see whether the barrel can be saved (as is or shortened.) If it couldn't, I would probably grab an INA barrel and polish the lettering off of it... most of the lettering from the gun will be gone anyway, right? Now you should have a good solid platform to build whatever big blaster you want, with no guilt about collector or historical value. You can let your imagination run wild and have fun with it, and isn't that really what you wanted in the first place?

Regards,
Froggie

Round Butt?
Correct me if I'm wrong.(I may very well be.) I think that round butting a pre-war 'N' frame will involve a considerable amount of welding.

__________________
Field Researcher. IGC

It takes no welding at all. It can be done with a hacksaw, some files and a hand drill.

My PD had a number of confiscated, found, or abandoned handguns that they allowed the officers to "Check out" for duty or off duty use. I got a nickeled 1917, with gold plated hammer and trigger, and stag grips. I cut the barrel down to 4", round butted it, and added a ramp front and an adjustable rear sight. I carried it as a duty gun for several years.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Thanks again for all the helpful hints and advice fellas. I'm leaning to keeping it a snubby, but at the same time I'm still thinking about buying that full length barrel a friend has for $50.00 As another member here mentioned, it couldn't hurt to have it in case I ever need it and I can always sell it if necessary.

Since Hondo44 assured me those grips are for sure India Sanbar stag, and several other members also said they thought they were stag too, I believe they are stag, but will know for sure when it arrives at my dealer.

I'm not that nuts about the look of those particular stag grips myself. So since I've been told they are worth about $200.00 I think I'm going to sell them to help defray the cost of the cut barrel, project revolver and put wooden replacement grips on it instead. When it comes in I'll check the grips with a torched redhot paper clip on the back side to make sure it won't melt (which would mean it's plastic), and if they are truly India Sanbar stag like others said, I'll put them up for sale at the buy sell forum here. Sure they are nice, but they just don't do it for me.


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I kinda agree with you. If I do keep it a snubby, I'm not bobbing the hammer nor rounding the grips. That way if I change my mind later, I can put it back to full length barrel military specs. (Even if the barrel is Brazilian and not U.S. it's close enough for me).
I've got big hands anyway and I like larger grips vs small rounded ones. It won't be a concealed carry gun.


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You pretty much nailed it Froggie. Only I'm not really that nuts about the looks of those India Sanbar stag grips. I'm thinking of selling them to defray somewhat the cost I spent on the revolver. Everything else you nailed though. I have another set of S&W grips I could put on it temporarily just for experimenting like you said. And again just like you said, if the short barrel shoots okay and has good rifling, I'll probably keep it. But I'm going to go ahead and get that I.N.A. barrel someone offered me for $50.00 just in case I ever need it. You are correct that after copious buffing and polishing to get rid of corrosion, most of the lettering will be gone and I'd do the same with an I.N.A. barrel if I decided to put a full length barrel on it. I won't do a hammer bob or grip frame rounding though just in case I keep it a snubby and later decide I like the full length barrel better. At least that way I haven't limited my options away from it being military spec.

You are right that it is exactly what I wanted. An old kinda rusty somewhat beater, with cut barrel that I didn't have to worry about destroying a pristine collector's piece. Originally I had thought about putting a .44 special tapered barrel with half moon front sight on it, and adding a .44 magnum cylinder. That's something I'd really like to have....a 1917 chambered for .44 magnum! But alas, I've found out at this site that the older N frames aren't properly heat treated for such pressures so I'd have to wait until I could maybe find a fixed sight beater model 58 frame or some other magnum N frame fixed sighted frame to do that project.

But that does bring me to a question. What about this cyrogenic freezing they do for receivers that do the same thing as heat treating? I have a friend who knows someone who does that and they dipped Chinese M14 (semi-auto only, actually Chinese M1a's) receivers into the nitrogen just to make sure they came up to U.S. military specs hardness (although I have a non dipped semi-auto Chinese M1A I've fired a lot with no problems).

So....I was wondering, would it be possible since I have someone who might be able to do it very inexpensively (or maybe free along with some of my SOT dealer's friends stuff, nice to have contacts) to have the 1917 frame cyrogenically frozen to where the molecules come closer together and effectively do the same as a heat treatment to where an old war horse like this one's frame could possibly be made to where it WOULD hold .44 magnum pressures? And if that is possible, would I have to contact S&W to find out what that hardness factor the metal needs is? Is doing that cyrogenic freezing to treat my 1917 N frame to .44 magnum pressures possible?

Yes I know, as you said, my imagination running wild. If I can't do something like that, I'll just have to wait until I ever (if ever) just get my hands on a fixed sight, magnum N frame (frame only) that I can put together with a .44 special tapered barrel, cut the .44 special barrel back to 5 & 1/2 inches (since I hear they weren't made in that length) and put a .44 mag cylinder in to finally get the fixed sighted, 1917 clone in .44 magnum I've always dreamed of.

Now why doesn't S&W make a "Classics" version of the 1917 in .44 magnum? Anyone know? I would think it would sell like hotcakes. I'd buy one (and disable the lock & weld fill in that ugly lock hole). The old tapered barrel, fixed rear sight, half moon front sights, N frame S&W's just have a beauty that the modern full barrel lug bull barrels or even non full lug but flat top barrel with big ramp front sights ones just don't have (for me anyway). To me the 1917 N frame S&W is the most beautiful double action revolver ever created. Now if only I could just get one put together SAFELY in .44 mag......


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Look at this S&W 1917 in .455 (British) that had a "round butting" done on its grip frame to make it a "birds head" type round grip that was popular in England back in the day. I wonder if with that drastic "rounding" of the butt if the gunsmith had to do any welding on that one?

I bid on this one but it just went too high.
Check out that hammer extension too. Plus the add on target sights that didn't modify the frame. At first I thought it was ugly, but then it kinda grew on me. I'd have converted it to .45 Colt by shaving a little off the recoil shield and refinished it and had a sweet .45 Colt caliber shooter. But again, the bids went too high.






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That is almost satanic! Consider yourself lucky you avoided that monstrosity and carry on.

I like that round butt long barreled old N-frame. Handguns that appear to have an interesting history appeal to me big time. That one wasn't destined to be a vintage pristine safe queen...that gun was actually used!

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C & L

When I suggested round butting the gun I had something like these in mind. If you will search the Forum for "belly guns" or something like that, I think you will find several good examples of big bore, short barrel guns with various combinations of features.

The first is a John Jovino modification of a Model 25-2 in .45 ACP that was done in 1983. Jovino was one of the first custom gunsmiths to customize the large caliber handguns in this fashion. The next is a Model 29-4 .44 Magnum that the S&W FActory made for their largest wholesale distributor, RSR, in 1989 when they realized the market that Jovino and others had created.

Bob





(Joel, These could be "little ladies guns" but any lady who can spend a day at the range running full charges through these-especially the .44 Mag- should be treated with considerable respect!)

Bob, you'll have to forgive my overt dislike of RB N-frames. As to the rest, I was taught to treat all ladies with due respect, and if they have a gun - any gun - even more so!

Joel,

I gotta agree completely with your comments on the ladies...very rude, to say nothing about being very foolish, to do otherwise.

To the OP, there is a long running thread on short barreled N frames over in the 1980-Present room right now. There are several M1917's in it that might give you some ideas.

Bob

Dave T - that is one completely awesome piece...

having said that - just for me only - and I've been looking for a gun like the OP got for a couple years now, as I want to put on a spare 1955 5" bbl, and just have fun with it...

Interesting that you should mention that. Just a couple of weeks back there was a thread showing a 1917 with a 1950's ribbed barrel. The poster was unhappy with the looks of the ribbed barrel mating to the round top frame.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Here's a Victory the FBI SAA in charge of the Las Vegas office had done up in the early 50's and carried it as a backup until his retirement in 1972. He also liked the round butt.
Chuck

__________________
SWCA1517 SWHF256
Rangers LTW!

That's a nice piece. An almost round butt that looks like a Colt Detective Special.

__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819

Everybody's doin' it.

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Dennis

Picked up my cut barrel 1917 S&W from my dealer today. It was in much better shape than I had thought from the auction photos. Even at the dealer's the hammer and trigger worked and the cylinder turned although on several of the cylinder's chambers it was hard to turn and needed my manual help to turn. I saw that the cylinder release button was forward so there should have been nothing holding the cylinder in the frame. So I gently tapped the cylinder against my knee several times and it popped right out.

When I got it home I found out what was causing the cylinder to lock up on several chambers and also what was causing the ejector rod to bind. The ejector rod was easy to unscrew. In fact it was slightly loose. I unscrewed it, took out the skinny rod and set that aside, and on inspection found that the ejector rod was slightly bent and would not eject cartridges fully.

Shiny spot on middle of ejector rod below is where it was bent....


Ejector rod laying next to revolver.


So I laid it on a flat surface and rolled the ejector rod til I found the high spot. Then carefully tapped it straight with a hammer. It works back and forth smoothly now and fully ejects. Fixed pretty good with just a few strategic taps of a hammer. However; I'm still going to get a new old stock ejector rod for it that I've found because the big end of the rod where it is knurled is buggered up and the knurling is scratched away and gone from it being bent. It works but doesn't look pretty and still slightly binds on several chambers when the cylinder turns so I'll put on the new one and save the old one for a spare part that needs further straightening to prevent binding on all chambers of the cylinder when it turns. So everything is working pretty good mechanically now and I didn't have to soak it in kroil oil or anything. All I did was spray the insides with a bit of WD40 to slick things up a bit.

I haven't taken the side plate off and gotten to the innards yet. Even still, by all mechanics and appearances I think everything inside is okay. Cylinder lockup on both hammer back and hammer down with trigger held back is VERY tight. Much tighter than on most new revolvers! Not bad for an antique! I was very impressed with its tight lockup. The yoke mates to the frame so well that I can hardly see the seam!! They just don't take the time to hand fit revolvers like this anymore. The old saying is true...."They don't make them like they used to."

I took it out back and fired six rounds out of it and it functioned smoothly and perfectly except for dragging a little on two chambers because of that still ever so slightly bent ejector rod. Rifling looks good too but you can't really tell from this pic. End of barrel was nicely rounded....


Next I took off and inspected the grips that came with it, and like others here had told me, they were indeed genuine India sanbar stag grips. Wearing an oven mitt, I heated a paperclip with a torch lighter til it was red hot, then touched that to the back of one of the grips. It did not melt. Just made a little brown mark. Also I can see some of the "bark" of the stags on the inside of the grips as well as see different color tones going through the grips. No doubt they are geniune India sanbar stag grips. There is some pencil writing on the back of them that is the number "306" and a name written in cursive "Onama" or "Onawa" not sure if that second to last letter is a m or a w. Perhaps they belonged to an Asian chap at one time.

Backside of India sanbar stag grips showing "bark" going through partially to backside along with number 306 and Onama or Onawa.


Backside of India Sanbar stags off the revolver


Top side of India sanbar stags off the revolver


India sanbar stags on the revolver.


There are all kinds of small stamps all over the revolver. Crowns on the left frame and barrel, some kind of stamp that looks kind of like the head of an eagle (but not totally sure) in several spots, some kind of stamp between each chamber of the cylinder on the outside of cylinder, a small rectangular stamp on the left frame just below the cylinder that has some kind of letter or symbol and then says "ENGLISH MAKE" I think. It was so small had to look through the magnifying glass to see it, as I did most of the markings.

The serial number is 997XX on the butt and matches the serial on the cylinder. The barrel has a different serial number on its flat on the bottom of barrel.

I'm no expert on this, but if I had to guess, I'd say it was a lend lease revolver sent to England and stamped with their crowns and markings in addition to our normal U.S. military stamps. Then at some time came back into the U.S. Perhaps while still in English service it made its way to India or Asia and was owned by someone named "Onama" or "Onawa" who put the India sanbar stag grips on it.
I know, I know, it sounds spookily like OBAMA! Lol. But it is definitely either Onama or Onawa.

I received in my mail today a set of grips member here Lee Barner had graciously sent me. (Thanks again Lee!)
I took off the India sanbar stag grips and put the plastic ones with polished wood inserts on Lee sent. They are a lot like my other set on my commercial 1917 only not as thick. I have really big hands and these grips were wider than the India sanbar stags and filled my hands much better. See the comparison between the India sanbar stags thickness next to Lee's thicker plastic and wooden ones....

India sanbar stags showing thickness.




Now Lee's plastic and polished wood ones showing their thickness.....


Now two below pics comparing Lee's plastic and wood ones with my more thicker plastic and wood ones on my commercial model.



I also installed the lanyard ring that was missing today. In below pic you can see how lanyard ring goes upward into bottom of grip frame and is held in place by a pin....


Another interesting thing I couldn't see in the auction pics but saw as soon as I got it, was that obviously someone at some time had also installed a front sight and base on the cut snubby barrel. Not sure why it is missing. Either taken off on purpose or came unsoldered. You can see that in below pic where the shiny unblued spot is on the barrel.


All I have to do now is to replace the ejector rod, buff the rust and pits out, get it real shiny, then put a front sight base and sight on it, then hot tank blue it and it should look like new.

After today's experience I feel I did really good on getting this one in the shape it is in for the price I paid.

I'll keep y'all updated on the project as it progresses in this same thread.

That's all for now til the next episode on this project.



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Well Bill, you 'done' real well on that one!

I believe you're correct about it being a 'lend-lease' gun. The "English Made" is a poor stamping of "Not English Made" which is stamped on all guns that leave the UK.

I like your plans for it. What's your plan for a front sight? It must have been a 'cold' solder joint.

A couple of thoughts, as you probably know WD-40 is only a penetrant, ok for cleaning but not a good lubricant. It dries. Also it can deactivate primers if it gets near loaded rounds.

The 'bark' on the back of the India Sambar (with an M) is actually the porous antler core. On many of the current poor stag grips it actually shows thru on the outer surface!

Keep us posted and thanks for sharing,

__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819

Thanks Hondo. Well since the rifling in the cut barrel looks good, I'll keep it a snubby. But I'm still going to pick up a full length barrel just to have in case I ever change my mind. I'll buff the revolver out to a mirror polish before I get it hot tank blued. Going to look good when it is finished.

For a front sight I might make/mill out a base and half moon front sight that replicates the look of the 1917 front sight and torch solder it on or maybe even J&B weld epoxy it on which would be even easier. JacktheToad might be changing out a bad shot out rifling barrel on his 1917 to a 625 snubby barrel and I might wait to see when he does that if I can use his old shot out barrel to cut the factory half moon front sight off it to put on mine. Either way I'll "get er done".

I plan on keeping the vintage look with half moon front sight and lanyard ring, but as a snubby and WITHOUT modifying or rounding the grip frame. That way I don't destroy the ability to change it back to full length barrel military specs if I decide to change to a full length barrel sometime in the future.

For sure I'll keep updating this thread until the project is complete.


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This. Snub 1917 would just be cool.

That's what she's going to be alright. Only with a slightly longer than totally snub barrel since I'm keeping the barrel the length it is. It's about the same length or just a little shorter than Indiana Jone's 4 inch barreled 1917 S&W. Perhaps I'll call it "ShortRound" after Indy's boy sidekick in "Temple of Doom" Lol.


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WOW! Isn't it great when a 'pig-in-poke' gun is better than you thought?
It sounds like it has acquired a unique history of its own that you respect by keeping it as near 'as is' as you can ("If only it could talk..." )

BTW, that was an excellent, informative report!

Nice find! Looks like the problems were minor.

If you're going to polish and hot blue the gun,,attach the new front sight with (real) silver solder both for strength and to make sure it doesn't come off in the bluing tank.

The new silver bearing soft solder is strong and is supposed to hold up in the tank.
But on a 45acp and a small area of bond,,I'd go with the real stuff.
It's a High Temp operation,,so use something to protect the bore from scale.
Boric acid powder mixed w/alcohol to a paste works well and is cheap.

What I am saying about round butting a pre-war 'N' frame is shown in these pictures.
First pic shows a 3rd model .44 HE on the left (1928 mfg) and a model 21-4 on the right(2007).
There is a great difference in the internal frame contours.
The second pic shows the 'N' RB stocks on the 3rd model. You can see the gap.
If you cut the frame for RB stocks it will leave a large gap in the heel of the frame.
This will take some very skilled welding .
This IS NOT a 'K' frame you can grind and cold blue.

Attached Images

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	IMG_1025.jpg (91.7 KB, 136 views)

__________________
Field Researcher. IGC

I wonder how that English 'Birds Head Grip' 2nd Mdl HE made out with the usual Serial Number Location on the Butt? Prolly a short Number and they left it intact...but, could be an issue if a long number or if it is stamped more toward the rear...or, with the M1917s, there could be a conflict there.

This is excellent. And your recounting of your thought process also informative.

All best for when you get it sighted and range-tested. If recoil is in pussy cat category, you might reconsider and keep those gorgeous stag grips - even if just for BBQ duty. Like the gun, those grips have 'been there-done that'.

Regards,

Dyson

Careful mentioning BBQs; he might start thinking about nickeling and engraving!

That is one fine old warhorse there. Put a grip adapter on it, new front sight and call it a day.

__________________
Always bet on stupidity.

Although my 1917 commercial S&W doesn't need any parts, I didn't know if I would need any parts for the S&W 1917 snubby project revolver I just got. So when I saw a group of 1917 S&W parts on Gunbroker, I bought them for $29.00 including shipping. I figured they might come in handy one day and some of the individual parts would cost me more than I paid for the whole bunch. What do you think for $29.00?

Here's the photos that were in the ad for all the parts I got.....

Ad said sideplate was buffed and left in the white and is pitted. Well....yeah! Who in their right mind would buff one out and then not finish, cold blue or at least cover in oil unprotected metal? Oh well, I figure even though the logo would likely be buffed out to get the pits out, at least it could be used again. Neither of my two S&W 1917's have a S&W logo on the right sideplate like this one. Which 1917's had the right hand sideplate S&W logo?











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You can't go wrong for that price! Even if you only use one part which is usually my experience. Then I can give away the others to friends who might need something.

Proper re- finishing/restoration does not get buffed, it's polished by hand. Like that sideplate; it would be flat sanded with successively finer grit paper until it matches the original period factory grit polish level.

__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819

You're right Hondo. Got some critical parts just in case for myself and friends. S&W 1917 parts don't grow on trees! Figured they'd be good to have.

I used to be a sheet metal mechanic/riviter for Piper aircraft back in the 1970's. Done my share of auto bodywork too. Got all kinds of grits of sandpaper I use all the time for metal working. From heavy coarse grit to 600 ultrafine grit. Mill, lathe, vices, Beverly sheer, fine blade bandsaw, grinding wheel, polishing wheels, air compressor, air tools, files and small fine jeweler's files. Most tools needed to do just about anything by hand excepting multiple production. Made and fixed lots of parts and things.

Just made a tiny rear blade sight from scrap steel for a friend who came over yesterday for his adjustable target sighted model Pietta 1858 black powder revolver. His orig adjustable blade rear sight had broken from a drop and he was having difficulty finding a replacement rear blade. I looked around my shop and found a piece of scrap steel that I could sheer and grind and file to work.

I had to file thickness and all over as well as sand thickness til it had no tool marks and fit very tightly in the base. The adjustable rear blade was a bad design by Pietta and the rear blades routinely fall out of them since there is nothing designed in them to keep them in the base notch if a left or right windage screw become loose and they will fall right out.

So I just made him a fixed rear blade that was driven down very tightly via hammer into the base slit for the blade and won't move unless you use a punch and hammer to move it left or right. I had to flat file and flat sand the thickness of the blade to be just right to fit very tightly into the base slit. The old file or sand a pass then check for fit, until it was close enough to square body hammer in with friction holding it very tightly. I did not put the two left and right adjustable windage screws back in but put them in a teeny baggie for him to store away.
I could always make it thinner to work with those windage screws if he wants, but then we are back to the blade falling out if either screw gets loose, just like the bad design factory ones. I like this idea better. No lost sight blade.

With the rear sight blade firmly hammered into the rear sight base, then with a triangular jewelers file I made my rear sight notch mark. I lined the mark up with the middle of a screw holding the top base on it its middle. That would be directly in line with the front sight and bore. Just eyeballed it carefully. Started off filing my notch with the triangular jeweler's file, then switched to a round jeweler's file and using that I filed the notch just about to the bottom of where it was supposed to go, then switched to a square jeweler's file to finish filing the bottom of the notch square on rear blade sight notch. Rounded the top corner edges of the blade so it won't catch on things. Tiny part to make. Cold blued it afterwards and it looks like a factory job.

Too late to shoot it here yesterday but he took it to the range today and I called him afterwards and he said it hit bullseyes for him and his friend and friend's wife who all shot it with its conversion cylinder firing .45 colt cartridges. I just eyeballed making it for windage and elevation and making sure it was tight when I installed it. He says it is dead on target and needs no adjustment. I was happy it worked so well for him.
I got lucky the first time and didn't have to file it down to lower the strike or adjust windage.

I'm ordering a new deburring wheel from Enco to re-finish my S&W 1917 snubby. It doubles as both a deburring wheel and a polishing wheel. I've used them before and they will smoothly take burrs, pits, rust, and anything else out and work as a really really fast buffer. You can also polish to a mirror finish with them too. It will fit right on my buffer motor 1/2 inch shaft. At a glance it looks like a stone grinding wheel, but it isn't. If something needs a heavy buff out, it will do it much much faster than a standard sewed cloth buffing wheel. Then use the cloth buffing wheel to give it a jewelers polish quality finish.

Flat spots of course I will sand and dress up with sandpaper on a flat block or surface. Then I can make my revolver have a mirror finish with the deburring wheel followed up by a SUPER mirror polish on my fabric buffing wheel with rouge. Then clean the rouge off and get it hot tank blued with a mirror blue finish. That's my plan as soon as the Enco deburring wheel arrives.


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Yep, sure is great Shep. Better than it looked in the auction pics. Made my day.
Thanks! Glad you liked my report. Apologies for my camera not having the ability to take clear close ups. One of these days I have to get a better one that takes good closeups.



.

Sounds like you came off even better with your deal than I did with mine!!
You worked for Piper, and likely helped build some of the airplanes I have flown. No wonder I like you!

Very nice report and a great find at an online auction no less. Good luck on your project, I know it will be fun.

I'd clean it up real good and put a front sight on it and if everything else checks out as to function, just use it. One can get carried away with restoring ($$$$) a piece to get it back to where it once was and it won't ever be as good as an original worn one. I would say those grips are REAL stagg, See how the bark drops off where it meets the frame? The maker went with what nature offered. Plastic,fake stagg always has the bark centered so the "ivory" clear part meets the metal of any particular piece (Colt .22 scouts come to mind)Great score and a swell piece to shoot and carry with no worries about wear from normal use.

All the Best,
Ischia

Several days ago I ordered a brand new, old stock, ejector rod for my project snubby S&W 1917. Got it off e bay for $23.69 total including shipping.



They have more. Here's a link if anybody here needs a new old stock S&W 1917 ejector rod.

WWI S&W Smith & Wesson 1917 .45 Revolver Extractor Rod P-1057 | eBay

Then today I ordered a 3M, scotchbrite, medium grade, deburring wheel, that not only deburrs, but also doubles as a polishing wheel without any need for rouge. Using this wheel cuts the time WAY down on buffing. Much much easier to buff out a part than just using a sewn fabric wheel using rouge.

You can actually get a mirror polish out of it. I've used one before and it works real good and fast. I'm going to use it to polish out the parts that aren't flat and able to be flat sanded to get pits out of my snubby 1917. It should be here by tuesday. I can't over emphasize how much time you can save using this to buff and polish with compared to using a standard fabric wheel with rouge.

It looks like a stone wheel, but it isn't. Basically it's a very dense, scotchbrite wheel. Really gets the buffing/polishing job done a lot faster and without using rouge. It has a 1 inch hole, but I've got a 1/2 inch to 1 inch shaft adapter to put it on my buffing motor.

Enco has these on sale right now. Reg $68.59, on sale right now for $49.89 with $7.95 UPS shipping.

Here's a pic and the link in case anyone here would like to pick one up from Enco. Just make sure you get the aluminum oxide one at the below link. They have silicon carbide ones that are even finer grit, (mine's medium) but the silicon carbide ones wear out faster. And the medium one I got will still do a mirror polish. I'll follow it up with my fabric buffing wheel with rouge though. Just to get that real SUPER fine jeweler's polish.



Enco - Guaranteed Lowest Prices on Machinery, Tools and Shop Supplies

So once my new ejector rod and deburr/polishing wheel come in, and I get the chance to work on it, then I'll update you on my progress of restoring my S&W 1917 snubby.




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Well, you are correct and you helped jog my poor memory. The 1917 that I round butted years ago did not require any welding; however, I didn't do it to a K frame round butt contour either. Obviously, a cut to K RB would remove a large portion of the backstrap. I did the front strap to conform to K RB, but I took the backstrap down as close as I could without cutting into the cavity and then used a set of Goodyear compact grips that covered the backstrap. Not a perfect fit, but I carried the '17 as a duty gun for several years.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

I couldn't stand it. I had to do something on my 1917 snubby while I'm waiting for my deburring/polishing wheel to come in. I decided to take my 1917 snubby apart and give it a good internal cleaning as well as scrub it really hard with some coarse steel wool. I was surprised at how little rust it actually had on it. Results seen below.









The internals looked almost brand new. Nice straw color on the case hardened internal parts as you can see especially well in this pic where I turned on my camera light which shows up the internal parts better.....



Once my new old stock ejector rod arrives to replace my slightly bent one, I could just put it all back together, put a front sight on it, rub some cold blue on it, and call it a day.
But I want something a little nicer and more dignified for this proud old war horse than that. Going to polish this until I can see my teeth clearly in it. Then hot tank blue. Why not. Not that much work and besides....I enjoy it!
Not only do I want to bring this fine old revolver back to life, I want it to dance!

That's all I can do for now until my deburring/polishing wheel arrives. Will update after that.




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Despite what the gentleman on the other forum said about the cost, I'd say you are getting full value on the transaction, if only for the fun you're having!
If you put a dollar value on all the work involved, it would surely exceed what you paid.

I think so too Shep. I try to tell people the same thing,...some of them listen, some don't. You learn how a thing works by taking it apart, fixing it, replacing a worn out part or two, and then you have something nice. Something you brought back from being broken.

I've had a gun in my hands as long as I can remember. I remember dad bringing me home a cap pistol when I was still young enough to be sleeping in my old wooden, cage bar side, baby crib. I actually remember that. Lots of cap guns in my boyhood. Most being pot metal, something would break. I'd take them apart and sometimes fix them and sometimes couldn't with my limited knowledge as a little boy. But I learned. My favorite set was my twin, blue handled, Hubley Colt 38's that I got for Christmas in 1960, seen below with me holding one in several pics from 1960. I was seven and Eisenhower was president.





An identical set of twin Hubley cap revolvers and holsters exactly like I had in 1960. Missed getting this one on e bay. Missed another just like it too. One day going to find that exact set again to hang on the wall with my pics from 1960.


We didn't have computer games back in those days and I spent my boyhood playing outside, climbing trees, cowboys and indians, Zorro, lone ranger, ect. I'd spend a lot of time in my dad's and granddad's workshops watching them fix things and I learned how to fix all kinds of things. Toasters, electric motors, just about anything. Built my own battery powered telegraph set. Made rubber band guns, crossbows, then much later graduated to BB guns. But if something broke, I could usually fix it.

The person at the other forum you spoke of Shep, doesn't understand. They don't see things through my eyes and do not realize how easily sometimes a thing can be fixed with just a little work and how satisfying it can be to do that. In this age of instant gratification, they are used to just buying something the way they want, then when it breaks, they get rid of it and buy something else. I still have tools that belonged to my grandfather who was born in 1898 and lived to be 98 yrs old. In my house before something gets thrown away, I see if I can fix it first.

I've been working on guns for about 40 years. Every gun I have owned I have taken apart to see how it works. Fixed lot of friends and family's guns. Made my own parts many times. Stoned trigger sears, cut black powder barrels and rammers then put sights back on them and re-cut the rammers and latches. Brought an Austrian Steyr hahn 1912 pistol back to life with some filing and a new extractor. Slicked up the actions on my nickel 1860 fluted cylinders Pietta Colt clones.

Turned my 1911 into a long barreled carbine. Spliced broken stocks back together under the barrel band so the splice couldn't be seen, using walnut I carved to shape myself for the upper fore end on an '03 Springfield. Spied by eye a 1896 Krag rifle receiver in a box of rusted metal scrap my cousin had. Cleaned it up for him to use as a good receiver for a restoration. Also broke free his Spencer repeating rifle so it will work again. Multiple little things you pick up along the way from reading about and working on guns.

Made holsters and repaired holsters. Just innumerable things I learned to do with guns. Mostly by hand with a minimum of tools. Like the Arabs do in the Kyber Pass. Although I've accumulated a few tools along the way too. I like aviation and scuba, but guns have been my life long hobby.

It's kind of like art. Someone else may look at an old beat up rusted gun and just see that. I see what I can make it become, and realize with past experience that I can make it become something again. Working on guns builds self confidence so that when a person gets enough experience doing it, they aren't afraid to tackle just about any gun project. But they have to want to do it, enjoy doing it, get a great deal of satisfaction doing it, and maybe listen to an old guy or two along the way when he tells them it isn't a "Piece of scrap metal junk that they think he got took on" when he tells them it isn't. Lol.

But sometimes, rather than just tell them, you have to show them and prove it. Then they and others might get interested enough after watching, to try a few gun project fixes theirselves. Half the time it amounts to just a good clean up and maybe replacing a part or two. Other times it takes a bit more. But all of it is doable and quite often just using simple hand tools like files and elbow grease. Other times you need special tools. I'm not a professional gunsmith, but I'm a self taught amateur one. I don't have the knowlege nor tools of a professional gunsmith. I just fix and do what I can, and if I get stumped, I find someone who can fix it.

All I know is I like it and as you observed, I'm having a lot of fun bringing this old S&W 1917 Snubby back to operational life. Another thing I've done and still do, did it with the snubby and will continue to do so until it is completely finished....is after first using steel wool on it, to get it pretty smooth, I get a little nose and forehead oil on my fingers and I rub the revolver parts hard with my fingers. Might be sitting watching a movie and just rubbing parts of the revolver. You'd be surprised how much rust and dirt you can get off a gun just by rubbing it with your fingers. Makes your fingers strong too. No substitute for buffing but can get it ready for buffing. After using steel wool on it and rubbing the parts with my fingers and fingernails, there is no rust left on the revolver at all except in the bottom of a few tiny pits. This is before it even gets to the buffing wheel. If you've ever noticed a worn doorknob or handrail worn smooth with no rust, same thing. From hand rubbing.

By rubbing like I describe, you will also feel every little nick and burr and rust spot by doing that and know by feel, without even looking, where those spots are to fix with sandpaper, or a jeweler's file (AKA mini files) and buffer. (Most important to have jeweler's/mini files). You will feel the raised area around a stamp, a nick on the edge of a cylinder flute, a rust spot or pitting, etc. And you will remember they are there because you rubbed it so much that you know exactly where every little imperfection is to fix. I also like to think all that rubbing and pressure I put on the gun with my fingers, infuses a little bit of me and my spirit into it. One quality it takes is a lot of patience.

Things like that are difficult to teach to consumer/computer age youngsters who didn't grow up fixing all kinds of things. You can try, but ultimately they have to want to learn, seek out gun repair books and manuals, gain experience and teach themselves like I did. For them to do all that, they have to be driven by a passion for guns. That's not really something you can teach, but you can encourage.

So when someone like that tells me I got took on a "Piece of junk scrap metal", I just smile and resolve to show them what it will become after I get finished with it.




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Bill, I fully understand and support your decision to re do this fine gun. One of my favorite guns is an old mud puppy of a .38 that I did the same thing with. I can't wait to see the final result.

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Always bet on stupidity.

I think you should definitely stay with a short barrel and retain as many original markings as is practical.

Not a 1917, but same concept:


A buddy helped me round-butt my Ruger Redhawk. If it can be done in 30 minutes to a a Redhawk's metal and grips, it should be fairly simple on an N-frame.

No pics this post, but here's the latest on my 1917 S&W snubby project revolver.

Last evening I installed my new ejector rod to replace the one I straightened but was still a bit buggered on the big knurled end, hence my reason for getting the new old stock one. Looks great. But I had to do a little hand fitting/filing. The cylinder was hard to close and hard to open after installing the new old stock ejector rod. So I had to file the end of the ejector rod that goes against the spring loaded pin in the underbarrel lug and then polish it with 600 grit sandpaper. Worked like a charm then. Nice and smooth open and close. Dabbed a little cold blue on the end of the ejector rod and looked great.

But I was still having a bit of drag on turning the cylinder with it loaded. I unloaded the full moon clip and noticed burrs on one side of the moon clip from when it was stamped out manufactured. I filed them down and got rid of them, then touched it up with cold blue. (Note to self to do that on all my moon clips).

But even after taking the burrs off the moon clip, I still had drag on turning the cylinder. Then I saw and felt what was causing the dragging. There was a burr I could see and feel all along the length of the cylinder pawl/hand channel on the inside of the recoil shield that I could see when I opened the cylinder. It would catch my fingernail and was scraping the cartridge heads and causing the dragging.

Looked like it was that way from the factory! So I carefully filed it with my mini jewlers files. Saw another burr on the firing pin hole. Filed that down too. Saw a couple of high spots on the recoil shield so I filed and sanded them a little to remove them so that everything was contoured into a graduated slope rather than sharp edges on the recoil shield where the cartridge heads came into contact there.

After that everything worked like a Swiss watch. No more dragging and scraping on the cartridge heads. Cylinder turned freely. Made my evening! Evidently even though this was a lend lease revolver to the Brits, I don't think this revolver saw much actual use firing. The cylinder locks up with almost no play on hammer back. With hammer fully down and trigger held back, you cannot feel any play at all in the cylinder. Amazingly it is the tightest cylinder on any revolver I have ever owned! I mean there is ZERO play in the cylinder with hammer down and trigger fully depressed. When I took off the sideplate to give the internals a good cleaning, the internal parts looked like brand new and are nicely case hardened and have a nice straw color. No rust on the internal parts at all.

Having rubbed the revolver a lot with my fingers, (which I always do with a gun once I have removed rust and am going to refinish it) I had felt a few little nicks here and there that caught my fingernails as well as high spots caused by stampings like the British crowns they stamped all over the revolver. I carefully filed and 600 grit sanded all the nicks and high spots down being careful not to file out the stampings, but just to lower their raised edges so everything was smooth.

Then even though I'm going to mirror polish everything before it gets hot tank blued, I rubbed some cold blue on the exposed metal to temporarily protect it as well as to see somewhat what it would look like after I refinish it. It looks as good as a modern but used revolver looks as well as operates now like a Swiss watch. All I have in it for repair costs thus far is $23.00 for the new ejector rod and my time hand working it. Really happy with how it is turning out. I could just put a front sight on it and keep it cold blued like it is and it would still look and operate great. But I have nicer more dignified plans for the old war horse.

Except for a few very small surface spots of rust on the frame and cylinder, there is no rust left on the revolver. Those small surface rust spots will buff right out on my buffing wheel. After cleaning it up real good I was actually surprised at how little rust there actually was on the gun. When I received it, it was mostly dirty and with dust and lint in the cylinders and bore and just a little rust that a good brushing with steel wool and a little 600 grit and an oiled brush knocked right off. She looked like a Sow's ear at first but has cleaned right up to a silk purse. The cut barrel bore is bright with excellent rifling as I ascertained after shooting six shots through it.

One of the Smith and Wesson forum members has a shot out rifling snubby barrel that he is going to replace, and he's going to send me his shot out snubby barrel. It has an original 1917 half moon front sight on it that I'm going to use on my snubby barrel. Since his barrel had been cut to a snubby and had the original 1917 half moon front sight on it, that means his front sight had to be cut from the original end of the barrel (since the sight was integral with the barrel when manufactured) and that means I should be able to heat it up with a torch to melt the solder that obviously held it to the barrel. Because since there were no snubby 1917's factory made, that means that sight had to have been cut off and soldered to his snubby barrel. His is nickeled though, so I'll have to remove the nickel off the front sight. Gonna be a week or two before he sends me that barrel.

In the meantime, that gives me plenty of time to get it all mirror finish buffed out. Will post more and with pics when I get that done.


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