Appears to be pre-war, here are some pics of this 5 screw M&P / pre-model 10

Does it have collectible value in current condition or is it just a shooter? Serial # is 274666 and in one of the pics, any idea of year?

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The early M&P is not my area of expertise but someone more knowledgable will come along soon,
The unique things about your gun that I notice are that its a round butt with large brass medallion grips, mushroom ejector rod tip and no address all of which make it more collectable.
Im guessing about 1916 on DOB but pretty sure that it was made before they began heat treating cylinders which may affect its desirability as a shooter .
Condition is not high but it appears original, Im gonna "Guess" a price of $350 to $450 because of the unique features but wait till you get a few more estimations because I do not know the market or its desirability to a collector so I could be way off.

Yea, valuation fascinates me and it's not my thing. It seems very odd to me that sometimes pre-war or immediately post-war guns are worth less than 50's guns, especially things like M&P's. The only thing I can attribute it to is maybe the sheer quantity of them made.

Bingo! They made a gazillion of them. In the condition of this gun, I would put it in the $275-$325 range.

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Dick

I have two with serial numbers in the 28xxxx range, both from 1918. And they're both round butt models as well but with 6" barrels.

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John

I have come to think that any shooter grade S&W .38 is a $275-300 gun these days. That price can rise to reflect scarcity, or historical interest, or better than normal finish preservation, but it can't drop much except to reflect a loose action, surface rust, or some other affliction that would affect or threaten functional reliability.

This gun's serial number makes it an early 1905/fourth change, probably from 1915 or 1916. The round butt is less commonly found in 1905s than is the square butt. The frame blue is pretty well preserved, though it is spotty on the barrel near the muzzle. There is enough about the gun that is interesting and attractive to make it a $400-425 gun in my opinion. It is far from being high-end collector grade, but it is collectible as a specimen for a type collection (early fourth change round butt). I would consider it a "shootable collectible."

EDITED TO ADD: This gun was produced when steels were a little softer than they were just a few years later. Do NOT shoot +P ammo in it. The gun won't explode, but why stress a handsome old gun with pressures higher than it ever experienced during its service life? I have a Model of 1902 from about a decade earlier in which I shoot 148 gr wadcutter match ammo. That's a good load for guns of this era.

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David Wilson

Thanks for the input everyone, I am going to make an offer. The seller appears to be asking a legit price for it. I just wanted to make sure.

Double check that the cylinder number matches the barrel and frame as it looks to be in a bit better condition
than the rest of the gun .

Bought it, will post pics when I get a chance.

Congrats on your new revolver

You will enjoy it & will start looking for more like the rest of us have done

All the best.

JD

So, I expect this post will stir some controversy, but I want to throw this out there anyway, because I'd like to know what my SWCA colleagues think of this.

I am not comfortable referring to an early Model of 1905 Fourth Change gun from the teens as a "pre-model 10."
While I don't particularly care for this nomenclature in the first place, it seems particularly inappropriate for a pre-WWII gun, let alone one that dates from around the time of the Great War.
If we have to use that moniker at all, shouldn't it be confined to those guns made between 1946 and 1957?

I really do want feedback on this. What think all of you?
Jack

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

I'm with you on this.

I must add, however, that S&W themselves can frustrate our own terminology. The gun we are studying here is an excellent example because we have long refered to it by its original title of "M&P". Now that is the title of a whole series of modern autoloaders.
Some other terms that S&W has stamped upon morern guns are "Bodyguard" and "Classic". When somebody says they own a "Classic Model 29" I still do not know if they are talking about a 29-2 or a 29-5 or a 29 -7. It's getting complicated!

Call it a .38 Military & Police (and therefore not an M&P 9 or 40), round butt, as the factory did on the box label when the gun shipped, and all will be right with the world .

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Exactly. Congratulations Nipster. I tried to buy that gun and was told someone barely beat me to it. I'm glad it was someone here on the forum who will care for it.

Just a few weeks ago, I bought my first "old" hand ejector - a 1905 4th which has been reblued but has some fantastic little medallion service grips (I may have the grip term wrong) and now I'm looking for more including a recently found 38-44 Outdoorsman which I will research here first.

I imagine I will start with a shooter example of various pre-war arms and then trade them or sell them for better and better pieces until I can manage a sponsorship inth the SWCA. It looks to be a fun (and expensive) journey!

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^ Thank you.

As soon as I got home, I cleaned it up, actually it already was clean, just waxed it up and prepared it for storage mainly. The guy I bought it from I think is a collector too, he knew what it was, but I got the impression that he was "trading up" too, or just trying to free space. May have a wife which gave him a quota. I run into these people too. It worked out well because I made a couple stops on the way home and found a 1920's vintage .22/32 in 95% condition which I am just going to about STEAL from this LGS in New Port Richey... about to head out the door now.

I always wondered how many people lived in my area were on here on the S&W forum. Did you see the guy in Sun City Center who had the model 17 that looked NIB for $425 last Wednesday on FGT? Someone beat me to it by like 10 minutes.

Nice old M&P. At the right price, I think they are a good investment.

Jack, I agree with you about the nomenclature, but it will always be confusing in some areas, and you never know if the other guy is calling it what it really is. The worst part for me is that I always get auto guns/parts mixed in when I do my M&P searches for revolvers.

Josh P

Here are a couple of pics

I love it how my pics show every single flaw

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It's not flaws, That's called character..........

Seriously, I really like that gun, especially with the round butt & the medallions. Nice score.

Even with its few finish flaws, that's a keeper, for sure. If you were to letter it, I'd wager it'd come back as shipping in late 1916 or early 1917.

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

Among the terms I don't like are pre=anything. It may be correctly used for guns in the 1950s. Anything earlier is just wrong. We've had this battle here before, but there are those who seem to like using it when other terms are much more descriptive. M&Ps were made for a long time. The prewar guns from the 1930s were gems, and its wrong to call them the mundane Pre-10s or whatever. K22s are either Outdoorsman's guns, pre-war Masterpieces/2nd models/k22-40s. The postwar guns are postwar masterpieces. About the early 1950s I"m comfortable with those who call them pre-17s. The list becomes nearly endless.

Maybe my views are partially influenced by my dislike of S&Ws numbering system, one which kind of randomly assigns numbers to identical guns with no differences but barrel length, then with others all lengths are the same model #. We as collectors then call things by names we prefer. Usually better than the factory came up with, but more confusing.

Maybe one of the greatest things we could do here on the forum is come up with a naming convention and then follow it.

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Dick Burg

I'm with Dick.

No long-action gun is a pre-anything. Only short action guns can legitimately be called a pre-XX, where XX is the model number.

That means no N-frame numbered S76000 or below (fuzzy boundary alert!) can be called a Pre-XX, and no K-frame service sight revolver with a serial number under S991000 (again, fuzz alert!) can be called a Pre-10.

But any postwar Masterpiece model (K prefix) can be given a "pre" designation, as can any Model of 1950 N-frame and any C-prefix M&P.

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David Wilson

I too like a gun with character. . Shiney ones are easy to find but only the passing of time will deliver the appearance of gun that was used and cared for.

Always admired those early ones with the big ejector knob and those stocks, especially the round butt and the medallions . . The aged bluing shows honest wear and gives it that character. .

Rod

So, if you were to properly describe this gun, what would you call it?? A pre-war long action M&P?? A 1905??

Thanks, Bill

this question will sound very amateur.
I just inherited a .38 Military and Police. It appear to be a 1905 series and estimated mfg is in the 20's. Working on paperwork to send to the historian at S&W.

Anyway I want to shoot it but with differences in metallurgy I don't want to induce undue stress. I do not reload so I am dealing with current factory .38 special ammo.

What suggestions or specs should I look for or avoid beside +P I know that is an avoid.

Jacketed Or lead bullet only?
Bullet weight
Etc.

Teke - wow - you resuscitated an old thread. The heat treating changed in the late teens. If you will provide your serial number, we can get a close estimate as to date. I shoot lead wadcutters in my older models. I think if you avoid +p loads, you should be OK.

Welcome to the forum.