I may have jumped the gun (no pun intended) but I picked up a very, very nice pair of 22/32 Bekaert style grips. No # on the butt, gold S&W medallion. I own #164122 with 1858 on the butt,original grips are good. As my favorite S&W model,I do know how hard it is to find nice original grips for this model. When did the gold medallion finish production? Silver, then none, as I recall as production moved closer to WWII? Through the years I have seen several of this model .22 for sale at local shows,but the condition of the original grips, if even present, was usually what made me hold off. I guess I'm in the hunt again now. Would these fit a pre-34 kit gun? Any Idea as to a realistic cash value?

Thanks,
Ischia

Gold medallion, no number - I'd say most likely early post-WWI, but pre-1920. The progression was from inset gold medallion, to no medallions in the 1920's, then flush silver medallions from around the early 30's until WWII. There was a brief interlude in the early 1920's when the target stocks were supplanted by ones that were like those found on the Regulation Police.

You might want to take a look at the following thread to see all of these:

.22/.32 Hand Ejector (Heavy Frame Target, "Bekeart" type) Pictures

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SWCA #590
"Colligo ergo sum"

The short answer is, no they won't fit a pre 34 Kit Gun. But to clarify: the pre 34s began in 1953 introduced as the "Model of 1953". It was a new I frame model that had the new J frame size grip and larger, egg shaped trigger guard. They became Model 34s in 1957 and Model 34-1 J frames in Oct. 1960.

However, the 22/32 Heavy Frame (Bekeart model) 2 screw extension target stocks will fit all pre 1953 I frames and J frames, the Baby Chief or Baby J, which had the I frame size grip from it's 1950 introduction until c.1953.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

I.m new to the site and would like to know if anyone could help me out on this one. I have a S&W 22/32 s/n 138703 and would like to find out some history on this gun. Thank you

Wow!! I'd say that's an very early one probably a real true Bekeart Gun. Early shipment for sure. Would be nice to see pictures...

Rick

Welcome to the forum.

You should really start a brand new thread. You probably won't get too many readers with your post tagged onto this old thread.

Yours is not one of the 294 that shipped to Phil Bekeart of the 1000+ very first production run of guns built in 1911. If it has a # on the butt of the left grip indicating the chronological order it was built, it's one of the first 3000 built. It is one of the lesser sought after guns shipped in a subsequent batch after the 294 that were shipped to Phil Bekeart at his SF, Cal store.

It is in the 2nd class of Bekearts; the remainder of the guns in that 1st production run and serial range that went to other dealers.

The 3rd class of Bekearts is the remainder with grip numbers from #1 to #3000 after which grip #s were discontinued, but there is no official factory 'list' of serial numbers for this class, albeit there are accumulated partial lists from lettered guns; the grip number and with grip serial number matching the gun, being sufficient to identify them along with a factory letter.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

pavelow3,

First of all...Welcome to the Forum!!

Like Rigmover stated in his Post, your Revolver is indeed an Early 22/32 HFT built in the "First Production Run" of these in 1911!! Sorry to say though it isn't one of the 294 "True" Philip Bekeart shipped HFT's originally ordered by him in 1911!! Still in all, it's still worth submitting a Factory Letter Request to see where...or whom it was shipped!!

Below you'll find the Link to download & print out the Form to send to Roy to find the Original Shipping Date & Destination!!
http://www.theswca.org/forms/Letter_request_form.doc

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Masterpiece

Jim,

Quick question...Where did you find data that would indicate one of these Revolvers within the 138,000 Serial No. Range were "Not" produced in the "First Production Run" of...Give or Take...1050 Revolvers??

Reason I ask is I've been studying these Revolvers for many, many years and...Not That There Isn't A Possibility...but I have never found one with a Serial No. within the 138,000 Range not to have been produced in the First Production Order...Or Have I Missed Something All These Years??

I'll go on to add...The only way I could see that being feasibly possible is if the No. stamped on the Butt of the Grip...If Original...is higher than 1050!!

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Masterpiece

Ok Masterpiece, you know what this means.....it's time for you to turn in a pay voucher for proof reading services rendered, so I can issue you a check!

Thank you once again! In my post #6 I left out almost half of my thoughts. My typing just doesn't keep up with my head. I edited my post and hopefully it makes more sense now!

Mr. Dimentia

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Jim,

What do you mean..."Turn In A Pay Voucher"...I never received my previous check as yet...Ha!!~Ha!! No matter... just remember "I Always Got Your Back Buddy"...Ha!!~Ha!!

All kiddin' around aside Jim...I actually was curious if you had run across any that I had no knowledge of previously given I no longer have access to the Current Database because up until then all the Revolvers in the 138,000 I had data accumulated on were in the "First Production Run"...Bekeart Shipments or Not!!

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Masterpiece

As far as I know, that's still true.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Thanks Jim!!

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Masterpiece

Thank you for the reply. I forgot to include that the grips are numbered 427. All numbers match. It has a lot of the blueing gone and would like to know if I should see about getting it redone or keep it like it is.

pavelow3,

First of all, thanks for letting us know the Production No. on the Stocks!!

Now as far as having it refinished, without having some clear photos to evaluate it's condition, that's a tough call to make!! Are you able to post Photos?? If so, why don't you post a few & we'll go from there!!

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Masterpiece

From a collector standpoint, refinishing is always a no no.

As for the .22/32 HFT's, the design of a .22 on a .32 frame was that of San Francisco dealer Philip Bekeart. Bekeart thought that this would be such a hot item that he asked the factory to produce some. Unfortunately, he was advised by the factory that the tooling required for such a modification would necessitate a minium order of 1000 guns or it would not be worthwhile. Thinking that the guns would fly off the shelves, Bekeart placed the order and the factory began to run off somewhere around 1,044 guns.

The first six shipments to Bekeart in 1911 only amounted to 294 guns and most of the rest of the initial 1000 guns went to other dealers in the S&W network. The first 3,000 guns had a number stamped on the bottom of the stocks that indicated the order in which they were assembled. These stock/assembly numbers did not stay in a strict serial number sequence and the first six shipments to Bekeart are all over the place.

As an example, 138236 and 138238 are in the first shipment on June 7, 1911, whereas 138237 didn't ship until the third shipment on June 28, 1911.

I just purchased 138266 which is the 22nd serial number listed in the first shipment to Bekeart on June 7. As it turns out, the stocks bear the number 22 stamped on the bottom.

I also own 138289 which was shipped to Bekeart in the 4th shipment on June 30. Interestingly, it bears stock number 289 on the bottom of the stock, the last 3 digits of the serial number. Most likely just a coincidence as Bekeart had only received 150 guns prior to this 4th shipment.

From a purely serial number standpoint, 138289 would be around the 63rd serial number used since these guns started at serial number 138226. (Which incidently did not ship to Bekeart in the first 6 shipments)

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James Redfield
LM #497

James,

How cool is that!!! I wonder if that ever happened again in the 1-3000 grip numbers???

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Sorry Jim, I did not see your comment until just now. Of all the serial number and stock sequence numbers that I have on my very short and crude list, NO this did not occur again.

The only problem is that no one that I have ever heard from has any qualified list of serial numbers and stock sequence numbers that can be verified as factory original. In the 100+ years that these guns have been available, there is no guarantee that some prior owner or seller did not break out a number punch and decide to add stock sequence numbers to the left stock panel to perhaps add value.

The only person that might know would be Dr. Ed from California as he played golf with Phil Bekeart if I recall correctly.

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James Redfield
LM #497