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Old 05-06-2012, 04:31 PM
Silver King Silver King is offline
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Default Three more for the Victory Data Base

I’m new to the forum (posted this in the wrong section to start) and am adding some more Victory models for the database which I’ve found very helpful.

The first two are marked: “38 S&W Special CTG” right side of the bbl; the 3rd is marked "38 S&W CTG" and all have “Made in U.S.A.” on right frame.

1st Victory Revolver has a 4-inch bbl in the five number serial range, (V 78137) with “U.S. Navy” on Top Strap and red paint “Property of United States Navy” mark on frame. Has checkered grips.

2nd Victory Revolver has a 4-inch bbl (V 315351) has faint “BNP” markings and is marked “ENGLAND” on cylinder. No top strap markings and no S&W logo on right frame. Lanyard lug filled and it has a small "P" marking on butt. In blued finish, which looks to have been applied after lanyard hole was plugged. All matching except there is no number on the bbl, just blank (replaced?). Revolver shows even wear. Replacement S&W grips.

3rd Victory Revolver has a 5-inch bbl (V 528312) has faint “U.S. Property” and “G.H.D.” on Top Strap. The right side of bbl after “Smith & Wesson” there is a “BNP” mark with a crown above, then “.38 -767” to the right and below, the “3 1/2 TONS” mark. “BNP” crown marks show behind each cylinder groove all the way around. Just behind the trigger on left frame is a small mark of downward facing crossed swords with an “I” to the left, a “B” to the right and the numeral “2” below. On the right frame above the frame screw over the grip is etched with the number “53” and below the screw, “FTR”.

Any information would be appreciated, date ranges, etc. Pictures posted in next post.

Last edited by Silver King; 05-06-2012 at 09:56 PM.
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Old 05-06-2012, 05:06 PM
Silver King Silver King is offline
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Reduced picture sizes hopefully they print.
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Three more for the Victory Data Base-victory-sm-fl-jpg   Three more for the Victory Data Base-vic-navy-sm-fl-jpg  
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Old 05-06-2012, 05:51 PM
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1st Victory - Shipped in 1942, with the extra naval marking on the side being a desirable variation. If the stocks are factory numbered to the gun, then the checkering was added along the way. Otherwise they're likely 20's vintage.

2nd Victory - From 1943, but obviously refinished and with commercial magna stocks. "BNP" stands for "Birmingham Nitro Proof" so the gun clearly was in the UK at some point.

3rd Victory - This one is from 1944. Are you sure the factory marking on the barrel isn't for .38 S&W rather than .38 Special? If a .38 Special marking has been added, then it should be a conversion. In that case, you should check that only .38 Special fits. If a .38 S&W round will also chamber, then the cylinder has simply been reamed out to take the .38 Special round, and you will likely experience bulged or ruptured casings if you shoot it with that round. "FTR" marking stands for "Factory Thorough Repair" with the accompanying "53" meaning this was done in 1953. The "3 1/2 TONS" is a commercial proof marking applied when the revolver was sold by the British gov't.

Besides the one with the plugged hole in the butt, the other two appear to have lost their butt swivels along the way as well.
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Old 05-06-2012, 09:11 PM
kwill1911 kwill1911 is offline
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Silver King,

Welcome to the forum and thanks for sharing some information about your Victory Model revolvers. I'm not the owner/maintainer of the Victory database--that would be ordnanceguy and LWCmdr45. I hope we are not crowding them out by responding too quickly to your post. To be useful I think they need complete serial numbers. I understand some folks' reluctance to post them publicly, although there is little to no danger to doing so, IMHO. However, you might consider sending them as a PM to one of the guys that collect the data so your guns can be added. As Goony points out, the first one is an interesting variation and would be an important contribution to the data. But, x'ing out the last three digits means that it can only be narrowed down to within 1,000 guns; not very helpful at this point.

I'm hoping that these guys write a book on the Victory Model some day and contributions to the database will help them be more accurate. Thanks for your contribution.

Regards,
Kevin Williams
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Old 05-06-2012, 09:35 PM
Silver King Silver King is offline
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Goony, very much appreciate your help. You are correct, the 3rd is marked "38 S&W CTG" I corrected it above.

The Navy Victory's grips are unmarked other than a pencil number (45823). But noticed while they were off some other markings on the right side of the grip frame: "Y" "4" "F" and "o". The left side had "V" and "&". There is also an "o" on the frame just below the US Navy property mark and above the grip.

I've started a search for proper finished swivels for the two that need them and a pair of proper grips for the 1943 revolver. If the Navy grips are pre-war, I'll just keep those on thinking it may have been a wartime modification for someone who thought they offered a better grip than the smooth ones.

I've had the Navy and 1944 revolvers since my dad gave them to me in the late 1960s. I knew the lend lease history but never paid as much attention as I did to two .45s I had till I recently acquired this 1943. Happy I kept them now because they're weapons that have a pretty interesting history and firing me up about collecting again. I may even have to send the Navy off to get lettered.

Thanks again.

Kevin, thanks, I'm not opposed to posting the serial numbers, just was trying to follow some of the protocol I've noticed on here. I did see the data base postings were doing full numbers so in the interest of research I'll correct above.

Last edited by Silver King; 05-06-2012 at 10:01 PM.
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Old 05-07-2012, 12:49 PM
LWCmdr45 LWCmdr45 is offline
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Silver King,

On behalf of my friend and collaborator, Charlie (“ordnanceguy”), and myself, I thank you for your submissions to the database.

Based on information accumulated to date, I would estimate that your guns shipped from the factory:

V78137 = ca. August, 1942
V315351 = ca. May, 1943
V528312 = ca. Feb., 1944

Enjoy!

Steve
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:55 PM
Silver King Silver King is offline
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Thank you Steve and Charlie for the wealth of knowledge you both display, your patience and your willingness to share with those of us just getting on the Victory Train.

I'll be on the lookout for more contributions to the cause, and hope, like others have mentioned, you guys can find the time to combine yours and Hellstrom's findings together in what would be a very interesting reference book.
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Old 05-07-2012, 08:00 PM
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Just while on the topic of Victories - Hypothetically, considering WWII- era Victories of identical condition, which chambering is the more desirable and valuable, the .38/200 or the .38 Special (unmodified of course)?
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Old 05-07-2012, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt View Post
Just while on the topic of Victories - Hypothetically, considering WWII- era Victories of identical condition, which chambering is the more desirable and valuable, the .38/200 or the .38 Special (unmodified of course)?
I think without question, the ones in .38 Special, simply on the basis of utility. Load it up with modern (albeit not +P) self-defense rounds, and it's good to go as a nightstand or vehicle gun.
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