What advantage is Tyler T grip adapter to large handed shooters?

[Bill_in_fl]

In some of my threads regarding my snubby 1917 S&W project revolver as well as my other full length barrel 1917 S&W revolvers, both here and at another firearms forum, some people have suggested I put Tyler T grip adapters on my grips.

I'm wondering exactly how the Tyler T grip would aid my hand grip on my revolver. I have big hands. Thin grips do not work well in filling my hands and I also need a long grip to avoid my pinky finger from slipping off the bottom of the grip. If my pinky finger won't stay on the grip, I won't buy a handgun like that.

In looking at the Tyler T grips, it strikes me that they may do two things that are not advantageous to a better grip....at least for me and other shooters like me that have big hands.

Using the Jay Scott extra depth width fake stag horn with laminated wood grips, they fill my hands better than any other double action revolver grip does. I don't want the looks of a target grip, and I like the old school "magna" type looks of the extra wide Jay Scott grips which very adequately fill my hands due to their extra depth width. When I grip my Jay Scott grips, the middle knuckle of my middle finger is indeed pushed up tightly against the rear of the trigger guard.

But that does not cause me a problem because my knuckle is tight against the rear of the trigger guard and rides back with the recoil instead of getting pounded. This is because my knuckle is ALREADY tightly against the rear of the trigger guard and not a fraction away from it. Kind of like a rifle stock being tight against the shoulder and riding the recoil rather than the rifle stock being held loose against the shoulder where it then pounds the shoulder under recoil. I just fired two moon clips (12 cartridges) out of my matte finish S&W 1917 for my first time shooting it yesterday to see how it would operate. Everything operated perfectly and no problems with my middle knuckle of my middle finger being pounded.

So there are two factors regarding these Tyler T grips that I don't understand that I hope someone can elaborate upon to help me understand how they might aid my large hands grip.

1. If my middle knuckle of my middle finger without a Tyler T grip is already tight against the rear of the trigger guard, what advantage does the Tyler T grip do for me besides taking up more space to drive my knuckle even further forward and downward?

2. I notice that the Tyler T grip takes up space and forces the shooter's fingers further downward on the revolver, thus driving the pinky finger off the bottom of the grip for large handed shooters.

See these below pics. First my newest mattel nickel S&W 1917 revolver with extra depth width, fake stag, plastic on wood laminated, Jay Scott grips, without a Tyler T grip. These extra wide depth laminated grips very adequately fill my hands unlike some thinner depth magna style grips do, and most importantly, they still allow my pinky finger to wrap around the grip and not be forced off the bottom of the grip. I have the exact same numbered extra depth width Jay Scott grips on two of my S&W 1917's now. I was lucky to recently find at Sarco the exact set of extra width Jay Scott new old stock grips still sealed in the original package from the 1960's that I already had on my commercial model blue S&W 1917 revolver, and those are the ones on my matte nickel 1917...


Here's the EXACT same model number set of extra width, fake stag with wood laminate Jay Scott grips on my commercial blue S&W 1917 that I also now have on my matte nickel 1917. These are just a little more yellowed and worn from age....


See how much extra depth width these particular Jay Scott grips have than another magna style set of grips have.....



Now compare how much more large hand filling, these wider extra width depth, Jay Scott grips are than another aftermarket magna style grip are. Jay Scott extra width depth grips on the right compared to the thinner depth width grips on the left.....


Next another 1917 snubby barrel N frame S&W revolver with the Tyler T grip adapter installed.....


See how in the above pic the Tyler T grip adapter by its taking up space, not only forces the middle knuckle of the middle finger MORE forward, but also forces ALL of the fingers more DOWNWARD, thus forcing the pinky finger off the bottom of the grip for some large handed shooters.

So here is my overall impression and please someone explain to me how I might be in error, if it appears I am.

It is my impression that the Tyler T grip seeks to give a better hand filling grip by making the length of the grip longer rather than making the depth of the grip wider as my Jay Scott grips do. By the Tyler T grip doing that, it appears to me to not only drive the knuckle of the middle finger more forward, but also drives that knuckle and indeed drives all the fingers more downward, thus driving the pinky finger either almost, or totally off the bottom of the grip for large handed shooters.

I simply do not see any advantage for large handed, long fingered shooters to use the Tyler T grip. Am I missing something here?



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[chief38]

For most of us, the Tyler T Grip simply fills the void in the upper portion of the grip. I personally like and use them on 95% of my revolvers but I have friends that hate them. The bottom line here is that it's an individual thing and you need to find what works best for you.

I know most here like the rubber Pachmeyer or Uncle Mike's rubber Grips, but while they are nice for shooting heavy loads, they are bulkier and stickier than wooden ones. When I pocket carry I much prefer a set of wood grips on my gun. If I am going to the Range for the sole purpose of ammo testing and Chronographing, I'll sometimes slip on a set of Uncle Mike's for the testing period.

Chief38

[DCWilson]

I don't think this is the kind of question you can answer at the level of theory. You just have to try a grip adapter and see if it works for you.

Bear in mind that there are alternatives for grasping a gun with big hands, which would of course apply also to average hands holding a small gun. Put a grip adapter on a gun, then slide your ring finger up in the hollow behind the trigger guard. Then fold your middle finger over the top of your ring finger and up tight against the bottom of the trigger guard. This also keeps your little finger on the forestrap rather than falling off the bottom or even folding under the grip.

Do a Google image search for Peter Gunn and see how actor Craig Stevens holds his Chiefs Special in the publicity stills for that show. It looks clumsy and awkward, but I fold up my fingers something like that on a snubnose K-frame with a grip adapter. It's a very solid and stable grip, and more comfortable than holding the gun without the adapter. It's also a potentially less stressful grip if you have arthritis or some connective tissue disorder in your hands.

[Shooting4life]

The only way to answer you questions is to buy a set and try them out. If you don't like then sell them. Probably only cost you a few bucks in the long run. I like my t grip on my 1917

[Dave T]

Originally Posted by Bill_in_fl

Am I missing something here?

Yes. You're missing the fact that everyone is different. If we were all the same (like you for instance) there would be only one kind of stocks available. A wide Magna style like your J Scotts...no other options.

I personally hate stocks that are wide at the recoil shoulder. They pound against the arthritic knuckle at the base of my thumb. They seem to work for you so more power to you. Just don't expect me to agree.

Dave

[Bill_in_fl]

Originally Posted by Dave T

Yes. You're missing the fact that everyone is different. If we were all the same (like you for instance) there would be only one kind of stocks available. A wide Magna style like your J Scotts...no other options.
Dave

Dave, did you notice I first prefaced my question of "Am I missing something here?"....by my first saying...."I simply do not see any advantage for large handed, long fingered shooters to use the Tyler T grip. Am I missing something here?" Also the title of my thread is...."What advantage is Tyler T grip adapter to large handed shooters?"

The title and the preface of my question made my question relevant only to large handed people.

So as you can see I do recognize that everyone is different and some people have smaller hands than others. If I did not recognize that, then I wouldn't mention "large handed" people and would just have mentioned "people".

I was talking only about people with large hands. You don't seriously believe I would be so ignorant and "missing the fact that everyone is different" and that everyone's hands are not necessarily the same size do you?


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[Russell Cottle]

If memory seves me correctly, and any more that's iffy, Melvin developed his T-grip to re-position your hand during rapid double action fire for better control rather than 'filling your hand'. There were others who came out with a similar product.

It doesn't work for everyone.

GUNS magazine had an article on the T-Grip in its July 2002 issue by Jim Gardner that gives his take on the 'why' of the T-Grip.

[Green Frog]

bill_in_fl,

While I don't have particularly large hands (I only wear a size "L" glove, which anymore is not that big) but I find that my biggest complaint about "service" and "magna" type grips is that my middle finger gets placed too high behind the trigger for optimal grip and trigger control. Of all the grips I have ever owned or shot, the old '70s and '80s smooth combat grips for K- and L-frames fit me the best. That being said, I love my little I-frames, and the grip selection for them is pretty sketchy, and almost totally lacking in designs that fill in that behind-the-trigger guard void. I have only experimented a little with grip fillers, but can see how, even with my pinky finger feeling like an unwanted step child, I can get a stronger grip on my little frames this way. IIRC, the classic instructions for Bullseye shooters involves letting the little finger hang a little loose so you don't "milk" the grips on firing and shoot low. This is JMHO but comes from a fair amount of experience over the last 35-40 years or so.

Froggie

[Dave T]

Originally Posted by Bill_in_fl

Dave, did you notice I first prefaced my question of "Am I missing something here?"....by my first saying...."I simply do not see any advantage for large handed, long fingered shooters to use the Tyler T grip. Am I missing something here?" Also the title of my thread is...."What advantage is Tyler T grip adapter to large handed shooters?"

The title and the preface of my question made my question relevant only to large handed people.

So as you can see I do recognize that everyone is different and some people have smaller hands than others. If I did not recognize that, then I wouldn't mention "large handed" people and would just have mentioned "people".

I was talking only about people with large hands. You don't seriously believe I would be so ignorant and "missing the fact that everyone is different" and that everyone's hands are not necessarily the same size do you?

Bill, you seem to have taken offense where none was intended. Such is the hazard of keeping a reply short.

I have large hands, but average length fingers. If I place my middle finger all the way up in the notch between the trigger guard and front strap my trigger-finger doesn't have a straight shot at the trigger and tends to contact the top of the trigger, making the DA pull feel much heavier. In my experience that applies to a variety of hand sizes.

As Russell said above the T-grip places the hand in a better position for DA work. A lot of people hardly ever use DA, preferring the lighter, crisper pull of SA. They may not see any real advantage to a T-grip or grip adapter. I shoot almost exclusively DA so something that fills the upper part of the gap between the trigger guard and the front strap is a real benefit.

Dave

[Old cop]

My glove size is XL, and they are still a bit tight b/c of my long fingers. The T grip, now available from BK Grips (a Forum member), keeps the gun from rotating in my hand under recoil. The largest gun I own is the K frame and I've found it to be perfect for my needs. Some version of the T grip is on all my revolvers.

[Deacon KC]

Hi Bill, I have large paws too, so i sympathize. I really like the T grips on guns i am trying to keep with a vintage look. They make a great deal of improvement for me in shooting comfort and control. As others have said, it is subjective and the good part is, if you dont like it you will be able to sell it quickly here.

[Fox Creek]

I love the Tyler T-Grips. I have small hands, somewhat wide and fleshy palm but stubby fingers. A K-frame simply has too much room behind the trigger guard, vertically for me. When your second finger in snugged up against the frame, your trigger finger is way high. Scoot you hand down and you have a very weak unsupported grip. The t-grip lets me get a solid well supported hand-full grip for DA work. Which is pretty much all I shoot. I have to be careful that I do not get stocks too thick also. When I acquired my MOD 28 a few years ago I ordered a nice pair of carved rosewood grips ($$$). they were about 1/8" thicker on each side than the Polyester-Pearl magna grips that came with the gun and unusable for me. Surprisingly a N-frame does not feel too big and works well but the K-frame is better and quicker. Both with magna stocks and T-grip. It is all about your hand and how it fits. They say that Bill Jordan had huge, meaty hands and his style of stocks that cover front and back strap and fill in behind trigger guard work very well for guys with big mitts.

[SDH]

I'm very happy to report that my last order to Tyler for T- grips (that I keep extras of in every S&W size because they are almost mandatory for my small hands), was filled from in-stock merchandize with less than 10 days total turn-around from Montana to OKC!
Wonderful service, great product!

[Bill_in_fl]

Originally Posted by Dave T

Bill, you seem to have taken offense where none was intended. Such is the hazard of keeping a reply short.

I have large hands, but average length fingers. If I place my middle finger all the way up in the notch between the trigger guard and front strap my trigger-finger doesn't have a straight shot at the trigger and tends to contact the top of the trigger, making the DA pull feel much heavier. In my experience that applies to a variety of hand sizes.

As Russell said above the T-grip places the hand in a better position for DA work. A lot of people hardly ever use DA, preferring the lighter, crisper pull of SA. They may not see any real advantage to a T-grip or grip adapter. I shoot almost exclusively DA so something that fills the upper part of the gap between the trigger guard and the front strap is a real benefit.

Dave

I didn't take offense at all Dave. I was just pointing out the reasons why you were incorrect in your statement. My title said "Larger handed people" and my text said "larger handed people", it was very clear I was talking about larger handed people only. But for some reason you ignored that when you said..."You're missing the fact that everyone is different".

If I didn't think everyone was different, and thought as you asserted that everyone's hands were the same, then I wouldn't have a reference point to call hands large or small. I would simply call them "hands" because according to your telling me I was "missing the fact that everyone is different" if I illogically thought everyone's hands were the same, then logically I wouldn't call someone's hands large or small. They would be all the same size according to that logic. I also asked you if you seriously thought I didn't realize that everyone's hands are different. So no need for you to think I have some kind of an "offense" problem, when what occurred is you either didn't carefully read what I wrote or else you didn't think before you typed.

I'm still not offended and I hope you're not either and I do appreciate your further comments/info on the T grip adapter.

I wasn't offended in the first place. I'm not even offended that you thought I might be offended. I just hope you aren't offended by my pointing out you were incorrect when you thought I was offended when I wasn't offended at all.

And if you could follow that last statement this early in the morning without coffee, you're doing good!


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[Bill_in_fl]

Originally Posted by SDH

I'm very happy to report that my last order to Tyler for T- grips (that I keep extras of in every S&W size because they are almost mandatory for my small hands), was filled from in-stock merchandize with less than 10 days total turn-around from Montana to OKC!
Wonderful service, great product!

Careful there SDH. With you having small hands, I might think you took offense at my post about larger handed people and accuse you of "you are missing the fact that everyone is different". But then that wouldn't be logical on my part would it? Because you stipulated in your text that your hands were "small" thereby logically you realize that some hands are small and some hands are larger. So I couldn't logically say to you that you "are missing the fact that everyone is different" could I?. Funny how that becomes logically clear to me when I carefully read what you wrote and think before I type.

"But seriously" (to borrow a phrase from a comedian),.....moving on....

Glad they work out for you with your smaller hands SDH. Please realize that the title and text of my post was particularly clear that it was only about larger handed people and member's thoughts regarding larger handed people using T grip adapters. That would logically exclude smaller handed people from consideration for the purposes of my thread's question. I appreciate your input to be sure, and do realize how the T grip adapters might aid a smaller handed person while not necessarily aiding some other larger handed persons like myself. But my title and text of my original post was seeking input only about larger handed persons using the T adapter. Hope you don't take offense to this, none was intended.


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[sunday bill]

N-frame wood finger-groove combat grips fit me so well it's as if S&W used my right hand as their model. Dunno if that would classify me as large- or medium handed, but T-grips make a K-frame S&W feel alien to my hand to the degree I'm distracted when tryin to get a grip in a hurry for double-action fire......Never tried one on anything but a K-frame.

[Bill_in_fl]

I think I have pretty much all the input info I need on member's thoughts regarding larger handed people using the Tyler T grip adapter. It appears there are some other large handed members that still like the T grip adapter and one member that doesn't care for it that much. I'll take all that into consideration and perhaps give it a try before totally discounting that it would not work well for me. I think I have enough member input now to answer my original posted question.

I appreciate everyone's info/input very much. We can put this one to bed now. Thanks everyone.




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[Dave T]

Bill, this feels like beating a dead horse into a greasy spot on the ground. What I said was "everyone is different", not that everyone has different hands. I've run into people with small hands who do and don't like grip adapters. I've run into people with large hands who do and don't like grip adapters. It isn't a question of hand size but rather a question of what the individual prefers. That is what I meant when I said everyone is different.

Dave

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

I'll have to weigh in with Dave T on this one. Everyone is different. Not all folks with large hands are the same. Not all folks with small hands are the same. I'm not sure what size hand I have, but I'm not the same. Tylers are great for me with everything except RB Airweight and Airlite J-frame revolvers - then I get my knuckle rapped. And another fellow I know who is a good shooter likes a Tyler on his Airweight J. BTW, note that I still prefer a Tyler on a SB Airweight or a steel RB J.

DCWilson was absolutely correct when he said, "I don't think this is the kind of question you can answer at the level of theory. You just have to try a grip adapter and see if it works for you." The word "try" includes actually shooting, not just holding or dry-firing.

We're all different.

[Walter Rego]

I have large hands and find that when shooting K or N frame revolvers with Service or Magna style stocks, I really prefer having either a Tyler or older Pachmayr or S&W plastic grip adapter. It's the function that fills in most of the space between the rear of the TG and the front grip strap that I need. It helps balance the weight of the gun on my middle finger too and better aligns my trigger finger in a straight line with the trigger.

[Andy Griffith]

I've got some big paws, and I do have tylers on most of the guns that I have stock grips on and are very, very comfortable for fast double action work. The T-grip is the best option for keeping factory or service style grips on the gun while modifying them for large hands.

Now, on several of my N-frames I have some custom Herrett's Jordon Troopers- which, if you have big paws, are the absolute best option for guns that need to be quickly drawn and used double action. Most of the fellers I know and shoot with can barely reach the trigger with the Troopers on my N-frames, but they are perfect for me, even through extended shooting sessions.

Here's a photo of three of them that I have with Herrett's, a model 10-11 K-frame on top, and models 21 and 22:



Next, one of my K-frames, and the Herrett's Jordon Troopers off of the gun:



If you look carefully at the top of the grip in the above picture (where they are on the gun), I think you can see how much they cover the backstrap, which is important in giving you the needed thickness for big hands.

Most importantly, you send in a tracing of your hand to Herrett and they make the grips to order and they will fit you most perfectly.

[Bill_in_fl]

Originally Posted by Dave T

Bill, this feels like beating a dead horse into a greasy spot on the ground. What I said was "everyone is different", not that everyone has different hands. I've run into people with small hands who do and don't like grip adapters. I've run into people with large hands who do and don't like grip adapters. It isn't a question of hand size but rather a question of what the individual prefers. That is what I meant when I said everyone is different.

Dave

That's not correct Dave. It is easy to re-read your post. You didn't write "everyone is different", as you now incorrectly claim you wrote. What you wrote to me was "You're missing the fact that everyone is different."

I wasn't missing that fact at all.
I would have to have the mentality of a plant to miss the fact that everyone is different. The point of issue is not that "everyone is different", (which is only part of the statement you wrote)....the point of issue is when you wrote "You're missing the fact that everyone is different". There is a difference between the two statements. One is a statement of fact, the other is an accusation of stupidity. Your's was an accusation of stupidity whether intentional or not. Understand now?

I'm not offended even though one could construe your statement to be insulting my intelligence in effect saying I was so brain dead that I was missing the fact that everyone is different. I don't think that is what you meant Dave, but,....that is in effect what you wrote. Look at your statement and think about what it is you wrote.

I'm sure you're probably a nice person and I'm fairly thick skinned as well as understanding of unintentional human faux pas, so I wasn't offended because I realize that is probably not what you actually meant and that you just "put pen to paper" without thinking first. But I would be offended if you continue to ignore it as your mistake and continue to argue about it without logical standing. I don't want to make enemies here. But I will not allow you to spin what you actually wrote to me into something that you did not write. Let's not allow this to become a willy measuring contest. It isn't worth it. I'm okay and you're okay. Let's remain friends and let it go. Please.

The bloom is a bit off the rose for me in this thread I created. By its very obvious title and obvious text it was a thread soley created for discussing the advantages or disadvantages of the T grip adapter in relation to ONLY people with larger hands. Some people ignored it was for discussing about larger handed people and I'm not talking about you Dave regarding that. That can be frustrating. Don't people think about what they read before they respond? Then in spite of my predicating by its title and text that the thread was for larger handed people discussion, I get accused of "missing the fact that everyone is different". I'm not offended, but it is frustrating. Kinda sorry I started the thread now. Sometimes people don't pay attention to what they are reading before they type a response, and it can be frustrating to see and deal with that. People being people, nothing is perfect. I call it "Human's being". But I did get some beneficial large handed people responses too. Which is what I was asking for and appreciated.

I appreciate all the info that was pro-offered and have enough now. As I said before, we can put this one to bed. Let's end this thread on a brotherly polite note and move on to other threads. Everything's okay. All friends here. Thanks.



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