K 22 outdoorsman changes

I am very interested in aquiring my first k 22 outdoorsman. In reading posts in the past it seems a few changes were made during there production period. Is there anything I should look for or stay away from? I do know that i would like to try the gold bead front sight.
Any serial number ranges that are coveted?...Thanks
I am aware of the 22/40

I think the gold bead front sight was one of the first things to change. I have an Outdoorman that most likely dates from early 1932 that already has the flush stainless Call type front sight blade.

If having the initial configuration is a priority for you, probably you should at least have the single back screw mounted rear sight assembly, which seems to have persisted at least through the first year of production. As to serial number range, anything in the 632000 range would be very early, but guns up into at least the 638000 range can letter from 1931 as well.

The guns were really pretty uniform over their life span. There were some call gold bead front sights, changing, mostly, to call brilliant (that's the silver, and I keep getting call gold confused with call girls, ask Shugart). Then sometime in the early production the correct box changed a couple of times. First it was just an M&P box with a rubber overstamp for the "K22 Outdoorsman's gun". then that same maroon box got its own pasty label for the K22. Then somewhere up above 638,500 they moved to the red picture box. None of that is really important, unless you want the correct box with the gun, or the wrong box is included.

Then up about 660,000 or above the guns received an option. You could get them with a Hump Back Hammer (HBH). In the same general time frame, the Magna Grips became available. Those are both really nice and rarely seen options. They were also seen on M&P Targets about that same time. You can even put together a set, but unless you've got really big bucks, forget trying to include a K32. You can just look at the top of this page and dream.

Someplace in the 640,000s the rear sight added a screw, with the higher numbered guns having a total of 3. Apparently the earlier single screw sights (for a total of 2) tended to walk loose and move the point of impact.

Those aren't a bunch of changes for a gun with that many produced. Roy says they made 19,500 of them, and who am I to doubt him. But we also know there are full double pages of their records with none being shipped officially. Its all so confusing, especially when we only have partial or incomplete information.

Now for the bad news. Lonesome guns, lying on gun show tables sell for a bundle these days. Asking prices seem to have floated up and above $1200 for them. And a gun with a box (not necessarily its box) seem to elevate the asking prices to about $2000. To my perverted system of math, it kind of means a good condition box may add $800 to the price of a gun. This is where RM boxes were 10 years ago. And we have nominally 3x the production to deal with. But surely not many more surviving boxes.

Wanna see someone grin? Watch the look on their face when they find a red picture box. Don't even expect to ever see an early maroon box all by itself. But if you do, buy it fast.

If you want to set your sights high, seek out a 2nd model with its box! I know where a bunch of them are. I have a couple and BD Green does too. But we're selfish, so keep looking!

Any K-22 Outdoorsman is going to be a first-rate gun, so there is nothing to warn you away from. In my opinion condition is more important than configuration, so look for the best specimen you can find without worrying too much about features. The gold bead sight was standard for the first roughly six months, then the stainless bead (or "brilliant," as S&W called it) became standard. But standard or not, you could still special order a gold bead later if you wanted it, so you will find gold beads on higher serial numbers too, and not just the early ones.

Distinctions like the one screw or two screw rear sights are kind of minor, but the two screw sights (we are talking only about the rearmost screw count, because the front attachment screw over the breech end of the barrel is taken as a given) would ordinarily NOT be found on the earliest gold bead guns because those features are from different production eras. If you find a two screw sight with a gold bead, I would guess the gold bead was probably a special order on a gun from later production.

If you happen to find a later OD with magnas on it, check to see if they number to the frame. Some magnas seem to be numbered and some not. You shouldn't find magnas on guns with single-screw sights unless they are replacements.

But these are really minor differences. Any K-22 will be an outstanding addition to your collection, and a great shooter if you are inclined to use it for that. (As you should.)

Earliest ODs (1931) start around 632000, and the last ones (1939-1940) are numbered around 680000. The K-22 guns were numbered in the same series as the .38 M&P. If you want an earlier gun (and collectors tend to favor early specimens) look for one between 63200 and 635000. But don't refrain from buying one just because the serial number is 20000 higher than that.

You are going to love whatever you end up with.

ADDENDUM: Oops, Dick got in first while I was still writing. He made very good points about the boxes.

rburg said:

Someplace in the 640,000s the rear sight added a screw, with the higher numbered guns having a total of 3.

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I believe this occurred (even allowing for S&W's typical imprecision in making such changes at some readily identifiable serial number) right around the middle of that range.

Goony said:

I believe this occurred (even allowing for S&W's typical imprecision in making such changes at some readily identifiable serial number) right around the middle of that range.

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Yes. 646390 is a two-screw gun, and at one point was the lowest known number on a gun with such a sight (and may still be.)

Of Course there were Aftermarket Mods and Factory Adds...

Some shooters sent their guns to Kings and had them "Super Targeterized". One could also be shipped with a grip adapter, and then there are the "roll marks" - earlier ones with the small S&W roll mark on the left side and later ones with the large S&W roll mark on the right side plate. Does anyone have photos of the K-22 O/D that has the large roll mark on the right side?

Here is one (SN 639380) that got "the works" treatment at Kings and is shown with a S&W period correct grip adapter (it does not letter with the grip adapter, but it looked so so cool on this gun, that that is where it will stay)

DCWilson said:

646390 is a two-screw gun, and at one point was the lowest known number on a gun with such a sight (and may still be.)

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To which I will add that other Outdoorsmans with just slightly higher serial numbers have been documented as shipping during the first half of 1934.

I don't know who put this one together, but it sure is a jewel.

N7BLW said:

I don't know who put this one together, but it sure is a jewel.

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Jim:

There we go - a large S&W roll mark on the right side (that's what I was talking about). I have SN 661107 that has the small roll mark on left side. What is the SN of your gun with those great looking Ropers and HBH?

Here is SN 664180. Sorry for the bad photo but it has the large roll mark on the right side.

Based upon the serial numbers given here, the switch from the small left side logo to the large right side one can be pretty reliably dated to mid-1937, at least insofar as the Outdoorsman is concerned.

RKmesa said:

Some shooters sent their guns to Kings and had them "Super Targeterized". One could also be shipped with a grip adapter, and then there is the "roll marks" earlier ones with the small S&W roll mark on the left side and later ones with the large S&W roll mark on the right side plate. [EDITED to correct - I just checked all of my O/D k-22s and they ALL have the small S&W roll mark on the left. Only my 22/40 Masterpieces have the large S&W roll mark on the right side.] Does anyone have a K-22 O/D that has the large roll mark on the right side?

Here is one (SN 639380) that got "the works" treatment at Kings and is shown with a S&W period correct grip adapter (it does not letter with the grip adapter, but it looked so so cool on this gun, that that is where it will stay)

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RKmesa, That gun makes my heart go a flutter! I could only hope to find one of those.
Maybe i will set my sights on a very good condition two rear screw sight gun. I would like a gold bead, but if walking loose on a single screw is likely, I would rather be shooting at the range not adjusting.

paplinker said:

Maybe i will set my sights on a very good condition two rear screw sight gun. I would like a gold bead, but if walking loose on a single screw is likely, I would rather be shooting at the range not adjusting.

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I don't think that single screw backing out is very likely, just remotely possible. Plus nowadays there's Loctite to resolve that issue should it occur.

If you can find any example of this model in decent shape at a reasonable price, just grab it and sweat the details later. I certainly don't see them popping up at shows or in shops much anymore.

I love the K22 Outdoorsman,
While it isnt precise I divide pre war K22's into 4 sub categories:

1, Very Early one screw rear site, gold bead FS, Small (L) trademark, Service grips .

2, 2 screw rear site, Small (L) trademark, Service grips, Optional grip adapter .

3, 2 screw rear site, Large (R) trademark, Optional Magna grips, Optional Humped back hammer.

4, 22/40 , New Micrometer click rear site, New Short action
hammer , Magna grips, 1940,

K22 production halts for WWII.

They are all great.

A while back I think David mentioned the executive order to enlarge the trademark came down in 1938,
My earliest pre war K22 OD with large right side trademark is serial 675779 that letters as shipped Oct 27, 1938 .

Does anyone know about what year the S&W K grip adapter first became available?

Ran across a blog today that flatly stated the gold bead front sight was supplanted by the "brilliant" flush stainless type after September 1931. I have no idea what the source for this info was, but there was certainly no equivocation about that cutoff date on the part of the author.

There is a list of production change orders and dates in Smith & Wesson: 1857-1945 by Neal and Jinks, p. 234 and following.

Here the ones relevant to the K-22:

January 1931: Furnish Call gold bead front sights as standard for K-22 target revolvers.

September 16, 1931: Order to furnish stainless steel bead instead of gold as standard in K-22 target revolvers.

December 2, 1936: Order to mark all H.E. revolvers with large S&W monogram on side plate.

I always misremember that last one as 1938, probably because I-frame Kit Guns with small monograms on the left were still being shipped in 1937 and 1938. The large monograms don't really show up on shipped I-frames until later in 1938, as I recall. Many inventoried revolvers of other frame sizes and with small monograms were still being sold after the order to put the big stamp on the sideplate was issued.

DGT said:

Here is SN 664180. Sorry for the bad photo but it has the large roll mark on the right side.

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I have a K22 just like this with 2 screw rear sight, and small logo on left side. It also has the "brilliant" not gold bead on front sight.

The serial # is 651xxx, I think someone on here suggested mine is 1935 as he had a 657xxx that is 1936 if I recall correctly. His gun was far superior in condition though.

Has there been any published estimations of the quantity
of gold bead FS K22 OD's that shipped from Jan to Sept 1931 ?

#6346xx with Call gold bead, small left side logo, single screw sight, shipped in Sept. 17, 1931. Has a nice red picture box that the number is faded from the tape...could be this number, could be slightly different. If Dick is correct that red picture boxes came after 6385xx, this one probably didn't ship in this box.

In any event, a beautiful set.

Bob