I think it belonged to my grandfather, who fought in WW1, or his brother who was in the Army a decade before (I have his Cavalry Saber). here's what I know:

Square butt, wooden grips.
Patent Date on top of the barrel ends with Dec 17, 01.
4 Screws
Serial # on the butt: 21328, also stamped on back of cylinder.
Writing on left side of the barrel: "38 S&W SPECIAL U.S. SERVICE CTG'S"

Pics to follow

Welcome to the forum. The serial number and barrel profile help identify that as a .38 Hand Ejector Model of 1902 (or Military & Police 1902) that probably shipped in 1902 or 1903. The fact that it has square butt stocks is unusual, as the 1902 has a round butt frame. But those stocks are about a decade younger than the gun itself, so they must be replacements. Is there a spacer between the panels at the lower rear corner to fill up the void you would get when square butt stocks are mounted on a round butt frame?

The "US Service" cartridge at this time was the .38 Colt, which was a little shorter and a little less powerful than the .38 Special. The longer round was developed and introduced by S&W. Within a few years the .38 Colt was history and the .38 Special became the standard round for mid-bore police and military handguns; even Colt adopted it.

That's a nice gun in its own right, but it is particularly special as a family heirloom. Congratulations on having it in the family.

I wouldn't be surprised if your grandfather didn't replace the smallish round-butt stocks with larger and more hand-fuilling square butt stocks himself. Those large deep-dish brass medallions were gone from S&W stocks by 1920.

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David Wilson

Very nice M&P and how special to know the history of it. A photo of the rear of the gun would be helpful or a side view with the stocks removed. Welcome to the Forum, Bob

Thanks to both of you for your prompt replies. Here are the photos of the rear of the gun, including some pics of the holster, which I think may be original. It has the brass stud and the slit.

I don't see any spacers on the butt (pics posted above). What I know is that my grandfather ran away from home in his teens and walked from barnstead NH to New Bedford around the turn of the century and shipped out on the last sailing whaler to depart port from New England. His name is on the ship rolls in the bedford whaling musem. Because he had several brothers there were a lot of guns in the family that passed down over the years. In the 60's my dad reached out to all of them and told them he would buy any family gun they wanted to sell for top dollar. We ended up with a TON of them. This is the most beat-up hangun of the collection, but some of the riflles go back to the 1700's, because we all served in the military and we all were sportsmen. I decided to look at the collection seriously last week and I was astonished. None of these weapons are for sale, they are family weapons. But my mom wanted me to take stock because she's getting on in years.

That grip frame has been modified extensively. If possible, take off the grips and
get a side-view picture of the grip frame. If you look at the butt, you'll see two
lines, that look like where the metal was added.

All early 1902's were round-butt frames. Square butts didn't come along until late
1904, early 1905, at about serial number 50,000. Someone has welded the grip frame
up, and then checkered the backstrap. A picture of the grip frame ought to reveal
how much metal was added.

Mike Priwer

Ok, pulling it apart right now.

This is just one of the best things about the S&W forum!

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Professional Trainer

Yes, you can see where the metal was added. it was done quite skillfully:





And this part was ground down:



Oh- ignore the beer in the background.

Now that is interesting! I've never seen one like that before!

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Old paratrooper in NC

That's a quite unique and well done "improvement" for the time. I can understand as I prefer a sq butt that "fits" my hand better for shooting.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Do you think the wood grips are actual S@W grips from 1905 or later? If I hadn't been told to remove them I would have assumed they were original.

I have nothing to add to what the fellows above have said (some of the most knowledgeable members of the forum) other than that is a really neat modification to the revolver. And you're right--the fitting was skillfully done.

I'm glad you and your Dad were able to keep the guns in the family.

IMHO worth a letter from Roy Jinks just for the family history. Dobut it will address the modification.

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You do what you are.

Take care of that baby, keep it dry and oiled.

and don't store it in the holster.

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Eccentric old coot

I think last week was the first time it left that holster in 80 years. The gun had greenish-blue lumps on it. I polished it with oil and a terrycloth towel.

Oh- ignore the beer in the background.[/QUOTE]

How can one ignore a Dos Equis? Now I'm thirsty, be right back!

removed PC

I'll bet that trigger pull is stiff. The mainspring should have a bit of an arch to it, but the strain screw has been eliminated in the square butt conversion.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Stay thirsty my friend.

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Living a dream - S&WCA #2364

How can one ignore a Dos Equis? Now I'm thirsty, be right back! [/QUOTE]

Fair enough, then ignore the Coleman flask.

In all the excitement discussing the grip modifications, no one corrected The Hairy Beast in his description of this revolver...this is a 5-screw, not a 4-screw. Isn't that a screw I see in front of the trigger guard, and 4 on the frame? Nice old six shooter, cherish it and pass it down to the kids.

Cool and interesting old CTG!

Great piece of history, and as the ad says,"Stay thirsty my friend!".

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Existimo ergo sum armis

That's really a fascinating modification--and your photos are excellent, BTW. Do you have any idea when this conversion was done?

Rubber Stamp:
There is no such thing as a "CTG" Model. CTG is an abbreviation for cartridge. The barrel stamping is the caliber, not the model.
Denis

No, there's a strain screw. Looks like they drilled and retapped the hole after adding the steel. Here's a closeup of the butt. You can see the screw. It's not apparent in the disassembled shots because I took the strain screw out accidentally when disassembling the grips.

No, there is no screw ahead of the trigger guard, that's the first thing I looked for after reading the other CTG posts on this forum. I'll post a pic later, the gun's not handy right now.

I've done some research and I'm re-thinking the provenance of the weapon. I now believe the mod happened in the late 1950's. My grandfather was a founding member of the NH chapter of the NRA and sometime around 1959-60 they were offered a deal from either the Army or maybe it was Smith & Wesson, to purchase WW1 Springfield rifles for practically nothing. They came packed in Cosmoline. We know my Grandfather purchased one 30.06 and so did my Uncle. I think he may have bought this revolver as well, because it's a Springfield too. So my guess is he modified it then, because my Uncle had the 30.06 he purchased re-blued and fitted with a hunting stock. It would make sense that Gramps sent the handgun along to have that refitted with a new butt at the same time, either because he'd just bought it or because he wanted to spruce up his old Army pistol.

No screw ahead of the trigger guard:

Outstanding revolver. If we were taking bets I'd put my money on the modifications being done pre-WW2 and maybe pre-WW1. Either way the worl was done by someone who knew how to use a file.

Nice s&w revolver

Large numbers of Springfields remaining in the Ordnance system were sold off to NRA members through the DCM in the 1950s and for some years they were very common and were endlessly modified for sporting purposes.
I doubt this revolver came out of the DCM as well, but it may indeed have been acquired around the same time and then 'modernised', it appears to be well done by a competent operator.

As the hairy beast said, the gun is actually a 4 screw. It is referred to as a pre 5 screw 4 screw by collectors. We knew the gun was not a 5 screw since the 5 screw frame first appeared with the 1905 variation of the M&P, and so before then, they were 4 screw frames.

Well the one give away is that for the 1902 M&P, all were round butt. So since the grips are square butt, they automatically came from a later gun. I had a pic on my other computer that showed the K frame grip types through the years. Your gun originally had hard rubber, or it could have had special order grips such as mother of pearl, or ivory. For the 1905 square butt guns, DCWilson is correct. The first type of grip on the 1905s were the non-medallion, concave type, followed by your type, the large recessed medallion, followed by convex non medallion, and so on and so forth. I want to say that the recessed medallion grips first appeared around 1914 or so but I am not sure of that. They surely were gone by the 1920s as DCWilson pointed out. I have a pair on a 1905 M&P SN 253XXX which SN to the gun.

In addition, your gun was only made for a few years, with only 28,645 made, which is not very many for an M&P. I would venture to say there would be a considerable attrition rate for these given the purposes that many of these guns were bought and used for.

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}-----Jim----->
~SWCA #2732~

About 1910 is the consensus. 1911 at the latest.
My 1902 Target is wearing a pair (non-original) and when Roy lettered the gun, he mentioned the stocks being post-1910.
Jack

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Thanks, now all I have to do is find bullets that fit it. Already discovered that .38 special rounds won't do. There were about 20 boxes of .38's in the safe (dated late 1950's) and none of them were of any use, although they did fit the 1956 pre-27 Not A HighwayPatrolman .357 I found in the collection.

Huh? They won't fit, how? They should chamber just fine. Are they too big around? Are you sure they are .38 Special and not .38 S&W?
This is puzzling.
Jack

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

No, they are .38 special and they are too long. Can't close the cylinder.

Have you run a cleaning brush and patches through the charge holes? Perhaps they are just gummed up. That could be from shooting the old Colt's cartridges through it and not cleaning it thoroughly afterward.
I'd clean it carefully before I did anything else.
JP

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Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Yes - get a good Bronze Bore Brush, and, some Bore Cleaning Solvent, and, Oil, and, using each in turn, clean the Cylinder Chambers/Bores well.

Then, Oil everything anywhere on it, which moves, slides or rotates.

Too - are you sure the Cartridges you were trying, are indeed .38 Special and stamped so on the Cartridge Heads? ( Regardless of the Box they may have been in ) and, that they are not old .357 Magnum Cartridges?

I've seen square butt guns converted to round butt, but never the other way around. Great memento.

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No life story has happy end.

Good idea, I'll check again. I really would like to shoot that gun.

Oh - just for fun, also found this 1908 .25 Colt ACP Auto (vest pistol) wrapped up in a checkered cloth. That I have fired and it's a hoot! Shoots nice for a 100 year old gun.







And this is a video of the Colt in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFKij-httRs

I agree, those are S&W grips from about 1910-1920. They were marked in pencil on the right grip with the serial number of the revolver they came with (assuming they we not replacements). Usually well on worn grips like these the pencil marks are totally illegible, but it's worth a look, with a magnifying glass in good light. A six digit number and I'm guessing the first digit would be 2, assuming it's from a 38 SPL. 32-20s had the same grips in that time frame, but the serial numbers were different.

Neat old revolver, in any case.

Allan