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S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


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Old 11-08-2012, 05:34 PM
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Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40  
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Cool Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40
Advertised as a "K-22 2nd variation". The serial number 672xxx falls quite a bit earlier than the known range for K-22/40's and, if I understand the differences correctly, the rear sight looks like a 1st model.

Am I correct?
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File Type: jpg OD_1.JPG (155.9 KB, 214 views)
File Type: jpg OD_2.JPG (153.4 KB, 168 views)
File Type: jpg OD_3.JPG (157.7 KB, 193 views)
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:37 PM
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Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40  
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You are correct. The Second Model had a click adjustable rear sight.

Ken
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:39 PM
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Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40  
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Default OD vs. K-22/40
First Model, Second Issue.

Here's the best way to visually tell the difference between the Outdoorman and the Masterpiece, Prewar, AKA: K-22/40 without cocking the action.... the OD is a long action gun and K-22/40 Masterpiece is a short action.

Note the sights..



K-22/40 is on top...





Drew
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:58 PM
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Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebago Son View Post
First Model, Second Issue.

Here's the best way to visually tell the difference between the Outdoorman and the Masterpiece, Prewar, AKA: K-22/40 without cocking the action.... the OD is a long action gun and K-22/40 Masterpiece is a short action.

Note the sights..



K-22/40 is on top...





Drew

Drew - thanks very much for taking the time to upload the pictures. I was pretty sure I had a good visual on the differences and your pictures confirmed it. Obviously the short action feature requires the gun to be "in hand". I pretty certain that my eyes would not be able to discern a long vs. short action from a picture of a cocked hammer!
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Old 11-08-2012, 06:06 PM
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Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40  
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Default Glad to do it!
BTW, here's a comparision between long vs. short action guns....



In this case, these are "N" frames.



Please pardon the poor lighting...

Drew
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Old 11-08-2012, 07:30 PM
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Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40  
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Dennis an easy way to tell the difference between a pre war OD and the pre war Masterpiece (22-40) from the profile is the visible step on the back of the short action K22-40 hammer ( below the spur ).


Another easy to spot feature is the "Micrometer" adjusting screws are much larger.

Perhaps what the seller was referring to is that the OD you posted above has the second style rear site with two set screws,
The first version had only one set screw and looked like the one pictured below.
Last edited by Engine49guy; 11-08-2012 at 07:55 PM.
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:15 PM
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Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Engine49guy View Post
Dennis an easy way to tell the difference between a pre war OD and the pre war Masterpiece (22-40) from the profile is the visible step on the back of the short action K22-40 hammer ( below the spur ).


Another easy to spot feature is the "Micrometer" adjusting screws are much larger.

Perhaps what the seller was referring to is that the OD you posted above has the second style rear site with two set screws,
The first version had only one set screw and looked like the one pictured below.
Thanks very much for the close up of the hammer step. I had read about that but never seen a close up like that before. The misunderstanding was mine regarding the sellers description of the gun and I interpreted his description incorrectly. Thanks to this post I now know definitively how to ID (or not) a K-22/40.
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Old 11-11-2012, 10:02 PM
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Here's a side by side comparsion which may help.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg K-22 Outdoorsman & K-22-40.JPG (107.4 KB, 81 views)
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Old 11-11-2012, 10:30 PM
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Dennis,
The information and photos above are excellent. But as usual with S&W guns there is a caution: the stepped hammer identification of a 22/40 is not foolproof. Although not common, photos of 22/40 hammers w/o the step are reported and shown on this forum.
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Old 11-11-2012, 11:42 PM
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Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondo44 View Post
Dennis,
The information and photos above are excellent. But as usual with S&W guns there is a caution: the stepped hammer identification of a 22/40 is not foolproof. Although not common, photos of 22/40 hammers w/o the step are reported and shown on this forum.
Just when I think I've got it figured out.... Actually I have a real good mental picture of the rear sight profile thanks to this post! (though as the years pass by I find that having something in memory and being able to retrieve it are two different things)
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Old 11-12-2012, 10:20 AM
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Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40  
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Ain't that the truth? As it stands now,I've forgotten more than I currently remember.
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Old 11-12-2012, 10:57 AM
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I am the seller of the gun pictured and it is not a 2nd Model 22/40 its a 2nd issue/variation of the Pre War Outdoorsman (3 screw rear site) vs the early 2 screw rear site. My ad explains this but the buyer was confused, I suspect Bullmack was the person who contacted me. Thanks Rom
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:17 PM
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Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rom View Post
I am the seller of the gun pictured and it is not a 2nd Model 22/40 its a 2nd issue/variation of the Pre War Outdoorsman (3 screw rear site) vs the early 2 screw rear site. My ad explains this but the buyer was confused, I suspect Bullmack was the person who contacted me. Thanks Rom
It was me. I was confused. I am no longer. Dazed perhaps
Sometimes our cross-use of the terms issue/model/variation can be confusing.
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:51 PM
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Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bullmack View Post
It was me. I was confused. I am no longer. Dazed perhaps
Sometimes our cross-use of the terms issue/model/variation can be confusing.
That's why it's important to clear up slang terminology on this forum so more people are informed rather than perpetuate confusion.

Accepted universal collector terminology is documented. There is no accurate source calling your gun a "2nd issue" or "K-22 2nd variation". It is a "K22 Outdoorsman 1st Model" with the updated sight, and could lead anyone, even knowledgeable in S&W to think of a "K22 Masterpiece, K22 2nd Model" (also factory labeled 22/40).

Anyone can be confused with 'pet' terminology often coined amongst some groups but meaningless and confusing to anyone outside of that circle. It just makes sense especially in a sale ad no matter the explaination where many readers could know nothing about S&Ws, that only documented terms in Smith sources should be used for someone to be able to look up. Particularly in this case where the distinguishing "upgrades" of importance both deal with the rear sight. Most call it the one screw elevation rear sight vs. the 2 screw rear sight.

There is so much erroneous information posted in sale ads how is one to know if the seller is knowledgeable or incorrect when obscure terms are used?
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Old 11-12-2012, 08:52 PM
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What time frames did the hammers and firing pin change?
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Old 11-12-2012, 09:50 PM
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Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40  
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Just to be clear I was the potential buyer. An email exchange with the seller quickly cleared up what the gun at auction actually was. At the same time I decided to started this post to educate myself on ID'ing the 22/40's. I should have done the education part months ago.
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Old 11-12-2012, 11:05 PM
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Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondo44 View Post
Dennis,
The information and photos above are excellent. But as usual with S&W guns there is a caution: the stepped hammer identification of a 22/40 is not foolproof. Although not common, photos of 22/40 hammers w/o the step are reported and shown on this forum.
I believe every pre war short action K22-40 hammer has the step pictured above,

As I recall we did have one member post a picture of a pre war K22-40 with a micrometer rear site in the correct serial range but his revolver had a long action hammer ,
I believe one of our members proved that pre war short and long action hammers will interchange from the Outdoorsman into the Masterpiece frame and visa versa.
Also the owner purchased the gun used and did not know if the hammer had ever been replaced.
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:13 AM
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Default Pre War K-22 Masterpiece Hammer...
Here is the thread on the Masterpiece with the Outdoorsman style hammer (you'll have to decide for yourself if it is as it shipped from the factory...).

Pre-war K-22 Masterpiece value

BTW: I have SN 687594, that per Harvester's letter shipped with his gun and it has the "normal" K-22-40 stepped hammer.

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Old 11-13-2012, 12:30 AM
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Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog81mm View Post
What time frames did the hammers and firing pin change?
The long throw hammer in the 22/38 changed to the short throw (stepped on K frame RF) hammer c.1940 with the introduction of the 22/40. All other models got the short throw hammer post war but with a transition period, the source of several desired models.
The improved hammer safety block was added post war to all guns; earlier for military issue like 1917s and Victorys.

Sorry I'm not sure of your meaning on the firing pin change. Pre and post war rimfires had the floating firing pin in the frame.
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