Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-08-2012, 05:34 PM
bullmack's Avatar
bullmack bullmack is offline
SWCA Member
Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40  
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Puget Sound, Washington
Posts: 886
Likes: 153
Liked 879 Times in 244 Posts
Cool Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40

Advertised as a "K-22 2nd variation". The serial number 672xxx falls quite a bit earlier than the known range for K-22/40's and, if I understand the differences correctly, the rear sight looks like a 1st model.

Am I correct?
Attached Thumbnails
Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40-od_1-jpg   Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40-od_2-jpg   Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40-od_3-jpg  
__________________
Dennis
SWCA #2409, SWHF #353
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-08-2012, 05:37 PM
kcwheel kcwheel is offline
SWCA Member
Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40  
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 158
Likes: 96
Liked 52 Times in 29 Posts
Default

You are correct. The Second Model had a click adjustable rear sight.

Ken
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-08-2012, 05:39 PM
Sebago Son's Avatar
Sebago Son Sebago Son is offline
Member
Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40  
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sebago Lake, Maine, USA
Posts: 5,418
Likes: 6,661
Liked 6,567 Times in 1,831 Posts
Default OD vs. K-22/40

First Model, Second Issue.

Here's the best way to visually tell the difference between the Outdoorman and the Masterpiece, Prewar, AKA: K-22/40 without cocking the action.... the OD is a long action gun and K-22/40 Masterpiece is a short action.

Note the sights..



K-22/40 is on top...





Drew
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #4  
Old 11-08-2012, 05:58 PM
bullmack's Avatar
bullmack bullmack is offline
SWCA Member
Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40  
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Puget Sound, Washington
Posts: 886
Likes: 153
Liked 879 Times in 244 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebago Son View Post
First Model, Second Issue.

Here's the best way to visually tell the difference between the Outdoorman and the Masterpiece, Prewar, AKA: K-22/40 without cocking the action.... the OD is a long action gun and K-22/40 Masterpiece is a short action.

Note the sights..



K-22/40 is on top...





Drew

Drew - thanks very much for taking the time to upload the pictures. I was pretty sure I had a good visual on the differences and your pictures confirmed it. Obviously the short action feature requires the gun to be "in hand". I pretty certain that my eyes would not be able to discern a long vs. short action from a picture of a cocked hammer!
__________________
Dennis
SWCA #2409, SWHF #353
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-08-2012, 06:06 PM
Sebago Son's Avatar
Sebago Son Sebago Son is offline
Member
Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40  
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sebago Lake, Maine, USA
Posts: 5,418
Likes: 6,661
Liked 6,567 Times in 1,831 Posts
Default Glad to do it!

BTW, here's a comparision between long vs. short action guns....



In this case, these are "N" frames.



Please pardon the poor lighting...

Drew
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-08-2012, 07:30 PM
Engine49guy's Avatar
Engine49guy Engine49guy is offline
Member
Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40  
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Florida
Posts: 6,634
Likes: 1,416
Liked 6,277 Times in 2,144 Posts
Default

Dennis an easy way to tell the difference between a pre war OD and the pre war Masterpiece (22-40) from the profile is the visible step on the back of the short action K22-40 hammer ( below the spur ).


Another easy to spot feature is the "Micrometer" adjusting screws are much larger.

Perhaps what the seller was referring to is that the OD you posted above has the second style rear site with two set screws,
The first version had only one set screw and looked like the one pictured below.

Last edited by Engine49guy; 11-08-2012 at 07:55 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #7  
Old 11-08-2012, 08:15 PM
bullmack's Avatar
bullmack bullmack is offline
SWCA Member
Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40  
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Puget Sound, Washington
Posts: 886
Likes: 153
Liked 879 Times in 244 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Engine49guy View Post
Dennis an easy way to tell the difference between a pre war OD and the pre war Masterpiece (22-40) from the profile is the visible step on the back of the short action K22-40 hammer ( below the spur ).


Another easy to spot feature is the "Micrometer" adjusting screws are much larger.

Perhaps what the seller was referring to is that the OD you posted above has the second style rear site with two set screws,
The first version had only one set screw and looked like the one pictured below.
Thanks very much for the close up of the hammer step. I had read about that but never seen a close up like that before. The misunderstanding was mine regarding the sellers description of the gun and I interpreted his description incorrectly. Thanks to this post I now know definitively how to ID (or not) a K-22/40.
__________________
Dennis
SWCA #2409, SWHF #353
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #8  
Old 11-11-2012, 10:02 PM
S&W HE's Avatar
S&W HE S&W HE is offline
SWCA Member
Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40  
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Nevada, USA section
Posts: 332
Likes: 335
Liked 124 Times in 57 Posts
Default

Here's a side by side comparsion which may help.
Attached Thumbnails
Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40-k-22-outdoorsman-k-22-40-jpg  
__________________
Dave
SWCA #2465
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #9  
Old 11-11-2012, 10:30 PM
Hondo44 Hondo44 is offline
SWCA Member
Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Posts: 13,016
Likes: 3,999
Liked 9,428 Times in 4,236 Posts
Default

Dennis,
The information and photos above are excellent. But as usual with S&W guns there is a caution: the stepped hammer identification of a 22/40 is not foolproof. Although not common, photos of 22/40 hammers w/o the step are reported and shown on this forum.
__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-11-2012, 11:42 PM
bullmack's Avatar
bullmack bullmack is offline
SWCA Member
Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40  
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Puget Sound, Washington
Posts: 886
Likes: 153
Liked 879 Times in 244 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondo44 View Post
Dennis,
The information and photos above are excellent. But as usual with S&W guns there is a caution: the stepped hammer identification of a 22/40 is not foolproof. Although not common, photos of 22/40 hammers w/o the step are reported and shown on this forum.
Just when I think I've got it figured out.... Actually I have a real good mental picture of the rear sight profile thanks to this post! (though as the years pass by I find that having something in memory and being able to retrieve it are two different things)
__________________
Dennis
SWCA #2409, SWHF #353
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-12-2012, 10:20 AM
fat tom's Avatar
fat tom fat tom is offline
Member
Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40  
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Central South Carolina
Posts: 7,209
Likes: 6,530
Liked 12,213 Times in 2,790 Posts
Default

Ain't that the truth? As it stands now,I've forgotten more than I currently remember.
f.t.
__________________
South Carolina-God's country
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #12  
Old 11-12-2012, 10:57 AM
Rom Rom is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 5 Posts
Default

I am the seller of the gun pictured and it is not a 2nd Model 22/40 its a 2nd issue/variation of the Pre War Outdoorsman (3 screw rear site) vs the early 2 screw rear site. My ad explains this but the buyer was confused, I suspect Bullmack was the person who contacted me. Thanks Rom
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-12-2012, 01:17 PM
bullmack's Avatar
bullmack bullmack is offline
SWCA Member
Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40  
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Puget Sound, Washington
Posts: 886
Likes: 153
Liked 879 Times in 244 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rom View Post
I am the seller of the gun pictured and it is not a 2nd Model 22/40 its a 2nd issue/variation of the Pre War Outdoorsman (3 screw rear site) vs the early 2 screw rear site. My ad explains this but the buyer was confused, I suspect Bullmack was the person who contacted me. Thanks Rom
It was me. I was confused. I am no longer. Dazed perhaps
Sometimes our cross-use of the terms issue/model/variation can be confusing.
__________________
Dennis
SWCA #2409, SWHF #353
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-12-2012, 07:51 PM
Hondo44 Hondo44 is offline
SWCA Member
Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Posts: 13,016
Likes: 3,999
Liked 9,428 Times in 4,236 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bullmack View Post
It was me. I was confused. I am no longer. Dazed perhaps
Sometimes our cross-use of the terms issue/model/variation can be confusing.
That's why it's important to clear up slang terminology on this forum so more people are informed rather than perpetuate confusion.

Accepted universal collector terminology is documented. There is no accurate source calling your gun a "2nd issue" or "K-22 2nd variation". It is a "K22 Outdoorsman 1st Model" with the updated sight, and could lead anyone, even knowledgeable in S&W to think of a "K22 Masterpiece, K22 2nd Model" (also factory labeled 22/40).

Anyone can be confused with 'pet' terminology often coined amongst some groups but meaningless and confusing to anyone outside of that circle. It just makes sense especially in a sale ad no matter the explaination where many readers could know nothing about S&Ws, that only documented terms in Smith sources should be used for someone to be able to look up. Particularly in this case where the distinguishing "upgrades" of importance both deal with the rear sight. Most call it the one screw elevation rear sight vs. the 2 screw rear sight.

There is so much erroneous information posted in sale ads how is one to know if the seller is knowledgeable or incorrect when obscure terms are used?
__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-12-2012, 08:52 PM
devildog81mm's Avatar
devildog81mm devildog81mm is offline
Member
Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40  
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

What time frames did the hammers and firing pin change?
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-12-2012, 09:50 PM
bullmack's Avatar
bullmack bullmack is offline
SWCA Member
Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40  
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Puget Sound, Washington
Posts: 886
Likes: 153
Liked 879 Times in 244 Posts
Default

Just to be clear I was the potential buyer. An email exchange with the seller quickly cleared up what the gun at auction actually was. At the same time I decided to started this post to educate myself on ID'ing the 22/40's. I should have done the education part months ago.
__________________
Dennis
SWCA #2409, SWHF #353
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-12-2012, 11:05 PM
Engine49guy's Avatar
Engine49guy Engine49guy is offline
Member
Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40  
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Florida
Posts: 6,634
Likes: 1,416
Liked 6,277 Times in 2,144 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondo44 View Post
Dennis,
The information and photos above are excellent. But as usual with S&W guns there is a caution: the stepped hammer identification of a 22/40 is not foolproof. Although not common, photos of 22/40 hammers w/o the step are reported and shown on this forum.
I believe every pre war short action K22-40 hammer has the step pictured above,

As I recall we did have one member post a picture of a pre war K22-40 with a micrometer rear site in the correct serial range but his revolver had a long action hammer ,
I believe one of our members proved that pre war short and long action hammers will interchange from the Outdoorsman into the Masterpiece frame and visa versa.
Also the owner purchased the gun used and did not know if the hammer had ever been replaced.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-13-2012, 12:13 AM
RKmesa's Avatar
RKmesa RKmesa is offline
SWCA Member
Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40  
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: AZ
Posts: 4,289
Likes: 10,641
Liked 19,522 Times in 2,173 Posts
Default Pre War K-22 Masterpiece Hammer...

Here is the thread on the Masterpiece with the Outdoorsman style hammer (you'll have to decide for yourself if it is as it shipped from the factory...).

Pre-war K-22 Masterpiece value

BTW: I have SN 687594, that per Harvester's letter shipped with his gun and it has the "normal" K-22-40 stepped hammer.

__________________
Richard
Engraved S&W fan
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-13-2012, 12:30 AM
Hondo44 Hondo44 is offline
SWCA Member
Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40 Is this a K-22 OD 2nd Model aka K-22/40  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Posts: 13,016
Likes: 3,999
Liked 9,428 Times in 4,236 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog81mm View Post
What time frames did the hammers and firing pin change?
The long throw hammer in the 22/38 changed to the short throw (stepped on K frame RF) hammer c.1940 with the introduction of the 22/40. All other models got the short throw hammer post war but with a transition period, the source of several desired models.
The improved hammer safety block was added post war to all guns; earlier for military issue like 1917s and Victorys.

Sorry I'm not sure of your meaning on the firing pin change. Pre and post war rimfires had the floating firing pin in the frame.
__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819

Last edited by Hondo44; 11-13-2012 at 12:44 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tulsa Gunshow this Saturday: Model 63, Model 60, Model 351PD, Model 500 retiredsquid GUNS - For Sale or Trade 1 04-08-2010 04:29 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:42 AM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.42 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2018
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)