5 screw question

[00Buck2]

I am looking at a 5 screw pre 27 3.5" original numbered diamond magnas no box or tools. It has a 5 number serial and dates to approx 1951. This peice is represented as 98% and by all photos shows that condition.

The only concern I have is the location of the barrel roll mark it looks a little too far forward when I compare it to other 5 screw pre 27 photos. I will be inspecting this peice in person later this week.

The person that has this gun is very respectable and I have no reason to doubt him, but the roll mark just looks to far forward.

I just want to run this by fellow members to get any opinions about the roll mark because it is the only concern I have. The price is on the upper end for a pre 27 3.5" without box and tools.

Thanks in advance for any information.

[merl67]

I am no expert but that's a cut down barrel. How do the other roll marks look are they just as off centered?

[murphydog]

Any sign that the front sight ramp has been relocated?

[00Buck2]

Its hard to tell I only received 1 photo of the right side. I cropped this photo to show a close up.

[00Buck2]

murphydog,

I do not see any sight pins in the photos, but I believe that they could have been polished flat from the factory. At least this is what I have read in previous posts.

[linde]

I don't remember the details of when the proud front sight ramp pins were changed to polished flat, but I seem to recall they were done both ways for a period of time in the early 50's . . . depending on who was doing the work.

Here are pictures of an early 6-digit s/n (S103862) for comparison. You'll have to be the judge when you see it in person and can inspect the muzzle crown, etc.





Good luck . . . early 3 1/2" .357 Magnums are great finds.

Russ

[Ngtdog]

I am no expert either, but I agree with merl67. It appears to be a cut down barrel. I have a Pre 27 that shipped in January 1955 and my roll mark is centered. Ron

[nipster]

Looks cut down to me too.

I guess the only way you will know for sure is to letter it.

Appears to be a nice job if that matters.

[ditrina]

I have a " Couple " of 5 Screw 3 1/2"

From the end of the barrel to the "S" 1/2" to 5/8th every one.. that looks cut down.. Just my opinion..

[00Buck2]

Ditrina,

Could you post or PM me a photo of the left side muzzle of one of your 5 screw 27 3.5"

I plan on seeing this pre 27 in person the middle of this week. I would like to find a comparison.

The serial for this one is 8XXXX

Thanks again for everyones information

[mh51]

I have to agree.....I have a late "S" series, and its 9/16" from the muzzle to the S.

[Retired W4]

Mine is a pre-27 w 6" barrel for comparison. Yours looks not to have been cut.

[mbliss57]

002Buck...Please let us know what you find out. This will be vey helpful for future purchases. Of course that assumes I actually find a 3 1/2" 27

[Art Doc]

This one is very close to the one pictured in serial (letters 9/50). The lettering appears much further back on mine.




This one is from 1957 and matches my other one. I am no expert but to me the subject gun appears modified.

[Nightowl]

The lettering on my 3 1/2 is about 5/8 back from the end of the barrel. The lettering is about 2 7/8 from the face of the cylinder. Taking this measurement and placing it on my 5 inch, the most likely length to cut to 3 1/2 indicates that cutting it to 3 1/2 would cut right down the front leg of the M, completely cutting off the S. That and the flat polished front sight pins would indicate it is original, unless the barrel shows other signs of a reblue, after polishing the pins. It could be that the markings are just a bit farther forward than normal.

[olskool]

looking at first glance it looks cut, but i think it is the angle of the photo. the S is in the middle of the sight post as the others are, i think it is correct.

[Engine49guy]

This 4 screw is a bit later but posted for comparison to see if they are consistent through the years.


The one below is an S-109,000 serial from 1954


Using the Front sites fwd set pin as a reference for the letter "S" in the "Smith & Wesson" rollstamp , noticed my two are in different places,
The earlier 5 screw is a bit back further but judging by the other guns shown it seems to move fwd and back a bit.

[Pitdog02]

I cant say for sure either but the barrel pin looks funny and a little buggered. Notice how pronounced and the blue seems traumatized on the pin and the surrounding area. Sorry I cant help just stating what jumped out at me, good luck. The S on my 3.5 starts at 7/16 from the end of the barrel.

[GerSan69]

I noticed in '49's picture that the roll mark seems to be positioned so that all of it is past the taper. Perhaps that explains why the mark seems off-center... because they couldn't do a roll mark on the tapered portion...?

[DWalt]

Reference the pin in the ejector shroud. 00 Buck2s revolver (left side) has the "&" pretty much directly above it. The other pictures do not. I'd guess a shortened longer barrel.

[swampersand]

My 5 screw 3 1/2" has a serial number in the low 101000 area and measures 2 15/16" from the face of the cylinder to the beginning of the S. If a line were dropped from the forward most sight pin (which is not ground flat) it would just touch the left side of the S. If these things had been made on CNC equipment it sure would make questions like this a lot easier to answer.

[00Buck2]

Update:

I ended up purchasing the 27. The crown and the front ramp are consistent with other 27's ive seen. The gun was more like 85% in my eyes, so I got it at a shooter price. The serial# is on the barrel, cylinder, frame and back of the ejector rod.

The roll mark is pretty far forward the S starts 1/4" from the end of the muzzle and there is 1 7/8" from the face of the cylinder to the begining of the N. the barrel measures 3 7/16"

I dont think this gun could have been cut down. I dont know of a barrel length that would have been factory in 1951, Serial# 841xx, that could have been cut to get the roll mark to start where it is currently located. Any ideas?

It feels really good in my hand I cant wait to put some rounds through it. I have not had a chance to clean it up but the bore and cylinder are bright/shiny and it shows a very light turn line. Here are some quick photos.

[Art Doc]

If you like it and you're happy with the price that's all that matters. But looking at the mating of the ramp with the top strap it reminds me of the appearance of my RM... with the barrel cut from 6" to 4" back in the day. To me the ramp doesn't seem to blend as smoothly with the top rib as it should. I could still be wrong.

[rct269]

Okay---here's a pretty much apples to apples comparision: I have #S79996--3 1/2"----shipped 10/04/50. When I got it, it was NIB.(!!!)----the gun had never been unwrapped. The Smith & Wesson roll mark is pretty much centered----the caliber roll mark on the other side is significantly offset to the front----the sight pins are ground flat.

I have no idea what that proves.

Ralph Tremaine

I just thought of something else---and I don't know what it proves either. In the beginning (or so I'm told), all the barrel roll marks were set back (close to the frame)---and all the barrels were made 8 3/4" long. As orders arrived (for whatever barrel length your little heart desired), an 8 3/4" barrel was cut to the specified length. So far so good. I just compared my post war 3 1/2" with a pre-war 6 1/2"-----a first year gun. The 'N' in Wesson appears to be located in essentially the same place on both guns. I didn't measure it---I will if anybody cares. I also have a post war 8 3/8"---#S168839, shipped 05/02/57. The Smith & Wesson roll mark is further forward than on the other two----but not even close to being centered. It would appear S&W stopped placing this roll mark as it is on my other two guns, and moved it forward. I have no idea when this was done, but-------it was done.

[highpower3006]

I dont think this gun could have been cut down. I dont know of a barrel length that would have been factory in 1951, Serial# 841xx, that could have been cut to get the roll mark to start where it is currently located. Any ideas?

This too, may be an apples to oranges comparison, but the position of letters in the S&W roll mark look to be in the same general area as the roll mark on the barrel of my 4" barrel four screw Model 29.

[rbswede]

00Buck2

This is just for comparison,I bought this one early this spring and had it cut down to 3.5" from 5" bbl. It in no way means yours is cut down. This is just so you can see what one that has looks like the sr# on mine is 807xx. My educated guess on bbl roll marks would be that early on Reg. Magnums bbls could be made to order any length from 3.5 to 8.75.in .25 increments. After they stopped making them as custom and standardized the bbl lengths post war, that would be when they centered the roll marks. This is just my educated guess for what it is worth. Hope this helps some.

Thanks Rusty

[00Buck2]

Thanks to everyone for the information

I think rbswede hit the nail on the head. I guessed that since the 4" was not standard at the time for a model 27 a 5" would have been the choice to cut to 3.5". For some reason I thought the rollmark would have been compromised when cutting a 5" to 3.5"

The proof is in the photos. It should be a great shooter.