Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > Smith & Wesson Revolvers > S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961
o

Notices

S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 All 5-Screw & Vintage 4-Screw SWING-OUT Cylinder REVOLVERS, and the 35 Autos and 32 Autos


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-26-2012, 01:51 AM
Oyeboteb Oyeboteb is offline
Member
"GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap  
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,535
Likes: 6
Liked 862 Times in 379 Posts
Default "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap

I am not up on the WWII S&W 'M&P' variations.

A Seller has one in lowish condition cosmetically, but supposedly good mechanically, which he says has "GHD GOVERNMENT PROPERTY" and a 'Flaming Bomb" Stamped in the Top Strap.

He says Barrel is stamped on the side "38 S&W Ctg"

So, what is this then? A .38 S&W or .38-200 which was US property??? Or..?

Revolver has a post 1968 CGA Importer's Stamp on the side, also.

Thanks!

Last edited by Oyeboteb; 12-26-2012 at 01:54 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-26-2012, 02:55 AM
Hondo44 Hondo44 is offline
SWCA Member

"GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Posts: 19,208
Likes: 11,815
Liked 20,511 Times in 8,548 Posts
Default

It is both. The 38/200 was the UK service cartridge in the WW II period. It is virtually the same as the US 38 S&W 200 gr bullet loading sometimes referred to as the Police load.

Although all whether of the Lend/lease or British Contract revolvers destined for England/Commonwealth countries made by S&W were referred to by the Smith factory as the 38/200 British Service Revolver model, they were marked 38 S&W.

Lend/Lease guns were stamped US Government or Property of US Government IIRC and many inspected/stamped by GHD. US service arms were typically stamped with the flaming bomb.
__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819

Last edited by Hondo44; 12-26-2012 at 03:06 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #3  
Old 12-26-2012, 03:05 AM
Oyeboteb Oyeboteb is offline
Member
"GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap  
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,535
Likes: 6
Liked 862 Times in 379 Posts
Default

Thanks Jim!


So, it appears to be a 'Lend Lease' version, being both USProperty stamped, and, a .38 S&W Ctg Barrel Stamp.

Seller says he test fired it and it functioned very well, but, now I am worried that it has been modified for .38 Special ( as I doubt seller knows the difference between the two Cartridges, or would have had .38 S&W Cartridges to test fire it with, or, he would have said so ).

Seller did not mention the GHD US Property Flaming Bomb Stamp till I asked, based on the images, what was stamped on the Top Strap, so, means nothing to him or her I guess.

Darn...if it was still in .38 S&W I'd spring for it!

But, if 'converted', I sort of feel "Blahhh" about it.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-26-2012, 03:05 AM
alaskavett alaskavett is offline
US Veteran
"GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap  
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Wasilla ALASKA
Posts: 1,327
Likes: 2,293
Liked 259 Times in 154 Posts
Default

What you have is a WWII issue or lend lease "Victory" model. I have had a few and many of them have been horribly neglected over the years as they were once plentiful and very inexpensive. It will have a letter "V" in the start of the ser# on the butt and a lanyard ring or the hole for the stud may be there. Many of the .38 S&W caliber guns (same as 38/200) were "modified" to shoot the 38 Special by reaming the cylinder to accept the longer and cheaper to shoot 38 Special. The .38 S&W round is shorter, wider and less powerful then the .38 Special. Some of these were real "Bubba" jobs and are not safe to shoot! 38 S&W is available in some big stores at 2 to 3 times the price of standard 38 Special rounds. Can you post photos? Merry Christmas and lets all look forward to a prosperous and PEACEFUL New Year.
Kyle
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-26-2012, 03:14 AM
Oyeboteb Oyeboteb is offline
Member
"GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap  
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,535
Likes: 6
Liked 862 Times in 379 Posts
Default

Thanks alsakavett!


No images I can post.

I am still waiting on Serial No.

Has the Lanyard Ring.

No rust or damage or dings or signs of abuse per se, far I can see, but, very low Blue anyway.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-26-2012, 03:21 AM
Hondo44 Hondo44 is offline
SWCA Member

"GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Posts: 19,208
Likes: 11,815
Liked 20,511 Times in 8,548 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oyeboteb View Post
Thanks Jim!

So, it appears to be a 'Lend Lease' version, being both USProperty stamped, and, a .38 S&W Ctg Barrel Stamp.

Seller says he test fired it and it functioned very well, but, now I am worried that it has been modified for .38 Special ( as I doubt seller knows the difference between the two Cartridges, or would have had .38 S&W Cartridges to test fire it with, or, he would have said so ).

Seller did not mention the GHD US Property Flaming Bomb Stamp till I asked, based on the images, what was stamped on the Top Strap, so, means nothing to him or her I guess.

Darn...if it was still in .38 S&W I'd spring for it!

But, if 'converted', I sort of feel "Blahhh" about it.
Yes, a L/L gun. Do not be suspect if it does not have a V prefix to the s/n on the butt, it may be an early version below c.700,000 because they were not stamped with a V before that and are referred to as Pre Victory guns.

If the cylinder is just reamed for 38 Special, once you shoot the 38 Spl cases in your gun, they will be properly re-sized for the chambers. Just discard any that split and if you reload, use 38 S&W dies. Simply use the larger .360 bullets in your 38 Spl cases to match the bore and for maximum accuracy. 38 S&W dies are available on e-bay for a song, or you can still buy them new; I use Lyman dies exclusively.

There's been much to do about the 38 spl case splitting in reamed 38/200 chambers, but truth be told, it doesn't happen that often. And if it does, so what? Cases of the proper caliber for their chambers have also been known to split on occasion. If a case splits and gases, unburnt powder or bits of brass escape from the rear of the cylinder, how is that any more dangerous than the gases, bits of lead, etc., escaping from the front of the cylinder at the barrel gap which is routine anyway? Normal safety precautions demand no one be to the immediate sides of anyone shooting a revolver and that safety glasses be worn, period.

Smith 1st heat treated it's 1917 cylinders at government request because they were chambered for the 45 ACP used in the 1911 Auto which required a 21,000 psi operating pressure to operate the slide reliably. That was 6,000 psi higher that any of the other N frame chambered cartridges of the time.

By the early 1920s S&W had implemented heat treating of cylinders on all of their models. The Victory models were chambered in both 38 Spl and 38 S&W (actually the English 38/200 cartridge, the American version know as the 38 S&W Super Police) with the same heat treating. The only cartridge specific heat treating of that period was on the Registered 357 Magnums in 1935.

So if you're considering a purchase as a collector piece/shooter, conversion to 38 Spl is a downside.

But if just as a shooter, a 38 Spl reamed gun is not such a bad thing.
__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819

Last edited by Hondo44; 12-26-2012 at 03:23 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #7  
Old 12-26-2012, 03:23 AM
alaskavett alaskavett is offline
US Veteran
"GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap  
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Wasilla ALASKA
Posts: 1,327
Likes: 2,293
Liked 259 Times in 154 Posts
Default

I think that having the lanyard ring still on it is a bonus of sorts. It will not be the beautiful shinny deep blue of other S&W revolvers of that time. It should present itself as dull with a "sandblasted" look and feel. If it locks up well and little or no end shake it may be a good example of a wartime Smith. Is there a chance you can do a serious inspection of the cylinder and how much case color is evident on the hammer and trigger? What stocks is it wearing? Kyle
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-26-2012, 03:42 AM
Oyeboteb Oyeboteb is offline
Member
"GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap  
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,535
Likes: 6
Liked 862 Times in 379 Posts
Default

Thanmks Jim! Thanks alaskavett!


I am waiting for more info from the Seller.

If I do not decide to get it fairly pronto, either of you guys want the auction listing via PM?


I would be getting it if it were still in it's original Chambering...Seller is asking $175.00, and may accept less, I don't know...it has been re-listed a few times already with no bids. Listing says nothing of any detail or interest, and, I found out what I have by asking specific details.

I find USPropety Marked Guns to be interesting and Historical in their way.

But, if it has been 'converted' I feel sort of crestfallen or not very interested.

I have ample 'Shooters' as it is! Lol...including a nice medly of old S&W 'M&P's of course. And, a handful of various make old .38 S&W Chambering Revolvers also.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-26-2012, 03:55 AM
Hondo44 Hondo44 is offline
SWCA Member

"GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Posts: 19,208
Likes: 11,815
Liked 20,511 Times in 8,548 Posts
Default

I would personnally not be interested in another Victory, I have too many already, unless it was of such an early model that it was shipped with the Smith Commercial bright blue finish and checkered grips w/medallions of the early pre Victorys. I don't believe any L/L guns were early enough to be, however. But thanks for the thought anyway!

Another point of originality to look for is the barrel length, many have been chopped.
__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #10  
Old 12-26-2012, 10:19 AM
Art Doc's Avatar
Art Doc Art Doc is offline
SWCA Member
Absent Comrade
"GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap  
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The kidney of Dixie.
Posts: 10,509
Likes: 49
Liked 13,409 Times in 3,290 Posts
Default

A reamed cylinder would not concern me as proper 38 S&W ammo can still be used. But a cut barrel is a deal breaker for me.
__________________
No life story has happy end.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-27-2012, 01:19 AM
Oyeboteb Oyeboteb is offline
Member
"GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap  
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,535
Likes: 6
Liked 862 Times in 379 Posts
Default

Thanks for the "GHD" info Bill!

Interesting!


Well...as for the old "M&P", Seller says hs or she had used .38 S&W CArtridges in test firing it, and, that .38 Special would not fit in far enough, so, it may indeed be an un-Converted one, in which case, sentimental me, I might just get it.

Barrel seems to be factory length.

No Serial Number info yet though.

Thanks everyone!

I have never owned any "Victories" or "Pre-Victories" though they have interested me.

If I do get it, I will Post a Thread for it to be critiqued!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-27-2012, 01:40 AM
Hondo44 Hondo44 is offline
SWCA Member

"GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Posts: 19,208
Likes: 11,815
Liked 20,511 Times in 8,548 Posts
Default

Good luck! Sounds like a good one.
__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-27-2012, 03:05 AM
JP@AK's Avatar
JP@AK JP@AK is offline
US Veteran
"GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap  
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Palmer, Alaska
Posts: 14,478
Likes: 5,112
Liked 18,983 Times in 6,863 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondo44 View Post
I have too many already
Huh? Are you writing in a foreign tongue? I can't understand this statement . . .
JP
__________________
Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #14  
Old 12-27-2012, 05:47 AM
Hondo44 Hondo44 is offline
SWCA Member

"GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Posts: 19,208
Likes: 11,815
Liked 20,511 Times in 8,548 Posts
Default

You made me LOL. I'll put it another way: I have too many others on my list that I "need" more....
__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #15  
Old 12-27-2012, 06:16 AM
Oyeboteb Oyeboteb is offline
Member
"GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap  
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,535
Likes: 6
Liked 862 Times in 379 Posts
Default

Lol...

It is all so much easier for me...having only a nice, representative 'few' of some various models, and far fewer yet of variations within specific Models, there are a wide variety of possible new acquistions, which can represent a model or era or variation ( of the 'M&P' in this instance ) which I do not yet have, so...

Now, as for the "GHD" Stamp, which I recall seeing also on WWI S&W m1917 Revolvers, and, also, on the Colt m1911 .45 automatics and Colt m1917 Revolvers also ( yes? )...

Now, did Mr. "GHD" himself, personally swing the Hammer for each and every one of those Stamp impressions?

If so, he must have ended up with an Arm like 'Popeye'!!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08-18-2018, 01:47 PM
850armyvet 850armyvet is offline
Member
"GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap  
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Hondo44 I know this is an old thread but I have my uncles Pre-V model it shoots S&W and hasn’t been reamed. I saw you talking about one with crosshatch grips ect. I have one that was built in April 1942 it’s before the serial numbers reached 1000000 on April 24 1942 and I only keep up with that because my Bday is April 23. My revolver is SN is the same number from the end of the Black magic finish as the year I was born 197* before the SN rolled over to the 940,000 when they started the parkerized finish mine is 93802*. My grips of course have the medallions I have GHD AND flaming bomb stamp. It says Smith and Wesson and all the patents and years on barrel and .38 S&W CTG. The serial on the cylinder matches the one inside the ejector rod/hinge assy. I’m thinking of letting it go so I can buy a shadow box for my paw paws funeral flag I presented to my grandmother when he passed. I now have the flag and want it sealed with his and my discharge papers and certificates. His Purple Heart and things like that. But the shadow box is a bit expensive and his flag is more important to me. Oh the revolver I read the blue sheet but didn’t buy it. It shipped to US forces in Africa May 1942 according to the sheet. It has original blue so it isn’t flawless but it’s not scratched cracked or anything. If you’re interested message me I’ll give you my email. Everything you said in this post you’d be interested in this one was built with.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-18-2018, 05:25 PM
Hondo44 Hondo44 is offline
SWCA Member

"GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Posts: 19,208
Likes: 11,815
Liked 20,511 Times in 8,548 Posts
Default

armyvet,

Thank you for your service and the offer.

I don't need another but suggest you post in the classified section of this forum.
__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #18  
Old 08-28-2018, 10:42 PM
El Biblioitecario's Avatar
El Biblioitecario El Biblioitecario is offline
Member
"GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap  
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 471
Likes: 222
Liked 550 Times in 210 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oyeboteb View Post
Lol...
Now, did Mr. "GHD" himself, personally swing the Hammer for each and every one of those Stamp impressions?
!
Being a general officer, I think it safe to assume he had people to do this sort of thing for him.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-28-2018, 10:52 PM
Absalom's Avatar
Absalom Absalom is offline
SWCA Member
Absent Comrade
"GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap "GHD" and 'Flaming Bomb" on Topstrap  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,834
Likes: 10,103
Liked 27,995 Times in 8,452 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Biblioitecario View Post
Being a general officer, I think it safe to assume he had people to do this sort of thing for him.
They weren’t even “his people”, but civilian subcontractors stationed at the factories, working for the Ordnance District which Drewry was in charge of. Member Oyeboteb also has a creative memory, believing to have seen the GHD stamp on WW I era guns. Drewry did not replace Bromberg until 1942, and thus the WB became the GHD.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Thinking of ordering a 686P 4" 7 round .357 .... "Help"!! Need some reviews on them... Is the 6" better or is the 4" equally good? .460V & XVR Magnum Man S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 37 07-06-2017 06:26 PM
If you liked "Red Dawn" and "Jericho" - "Falling Skies" starts Sunday GatorFarmer The Lounge 15 08-14-2012 11:58 PM
Model 1 3rd issue "early topstrap" question twaits S&W Antiques 4 04-13-2011 11:03 PM
Flaming Bomb Victory in 38 S&W? Speedo2 S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 1 09-20-2009 01:32 AM
Use caution when dealing with "roniva123", a.k.a. "PB Firearms", a.k.a. "Snubbies" allglock Feedback 17 08-07-2009 04:31 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:28 PM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)